Lukasz Has Done It Again

[Mike Lavigne]

What do you mean by a different type of person?

not what i said at all. it's a different customer. the same person can transition from one preference to another. or love their MSB Cascade and transition to the Sentinel. there are separate paths we move along.

we might not 'get' a tube dac, or a SS dac.

No different than those preferring low watt valve amps to monster SS amps or efficient speakers to inefficient ones, or analog to digital.

kinda agree. we all embrace particular presentations. i had my own process with dacs and amps.

The super uber adjective is just a synonym for very expensive, those who can will drive through the nuances to pick the quality components

another perspective moving on from the distortion/higher noise of tubes. not saying i subscribe to that perspective but many do. i have owned 5 tubed phono's and love my EMIA.....and my SS darTZeel too.

 

[plasmod3]

I have been on the quiet - was quite enthusiastic about this dac but not have a few doubts tbh - As always please feel free to correct me if i am wrong

1. Digital Modulation and filters ; this seems to be taking a very significant detour from the previous dacs where we now actively fiddle with the sound past the DAC stage . I am not sure i like that .Its like going off roon which we know has a great ui but bad for sound - then having a great dac but then putting in roon filters back into the chain. I think a dac should be a dac ie faithfully reproduce digital to analogue rather than fiddling using filters and modulation ....it sounds like a really big step backwards here

2. Streaming is inbuilt; i will ideally like these 2 circuits to be seperate. I imagine the streaming part needs more microprocessor components and that will introduce more noise into what is otherwise a pure dac circuit. Discrete components make sense at gear of this level

3. Femto clocks - well the crystek clocks used before are femto clocks and an ok spec i guess . I have installed a neutronstar clock in mine which is much better but thats comparing a $80 part to a $600 part. There is some other mil spec clocks out there; one that i found is a direct remove and replace . I will be curious what new femto clock is in there. The point is less so having a Femto clock but looking at having an OXCO or VXCO clock in there instead - one that has a direct and seperate poswer supply that can be on 24/7 and build within the dac itself. Correct me if I am wrong...the clocks are mainly for the usb board where we know usb is a bit of a dirty signal - if you use spdif it doesnt really matter - thats why i use spdif in my setup. The other clocks however do not control the dac chip? Looking at the AKM specs - it has a clock on board and i dont see a way of disabling that internal clock - i might be wrong here - very very keen on more input on this . So having a better clock maybe doesnt make a difference? You cant bypass the dac chip clock build internally from what i can see

4. Resistors at $50 and capacitors at $200 - well yes i share your pain too lukasz - good components are pricey. $200 caps however i will consider basic ....a dueland silver foil is $1300 usd for one for eg . Using good components like the former really works which was why i had a wishlist for you before - i will much much rather have the top components in there right from the start. I can tell from my own experience that duelund silver foils are like wow. They have to be used in combination with other foils though.

5. Tube Rolling. I think and humbly so....I have many more tubes - quantity and variety than a lot of ppl on this forum and most importantly as Lukasz has pointed out ..... most ppl have no idea what they are doing and plonk tubes left right and center - thats just silly. I can say that i have at least 4-5 tubes at the top of my head that run circles around the kt88 kt66 and el34. KT** and KT66 are noisy tubes - they lose detail easily - why trust a kinkless triode when you have a pentode - from memory it was invented after a pentode and only for competitive reasons between manufacturers. It will be quite presumptive if someone spends all that money on a dac and then analogous to tube rolling....use a normal kettle cord on this dac. Good tubes are no different to a good cable for the dac , a good fuse , isolation platforms etcetc. So ppl with no knowledge - dont do it yourself and make sure you get reputable suppliers for your tubes and adaptors - not what looks nice or what is described well on ebay - get ppl in the know to help you. Ppl with knowledge - well they should not be restricted in tube rolling.

6. Protective mechs on filament and transformers. I totally get this where ppl use tubes without testing to ensure they havnt shorted out before using them blowing out the tranny in the process. I agree the manufacturer should not be on the hook for these ; the other side of the coin though - i think there should be more tolerance build into the transformers. For another ? 50 euros you can increase the wattage of the transformer without increasing the size dramatically giving a bit of a buffer there . I do that all the time with my finemet transformers and chokes.

I think for a 2amp filament max draw on the transformers - spec the transformer for 2.5amp or 3amps. Thats the same way we approach caps and resistor sizing for circuits - always have that reserve there for safety.

Now coming to the protection mechs for the transformers - i cannot help but feel that this will be a detriment to the sound. This will have to be an active circuit - microprocessor controlled. So part of the benefit of an el transformer is probably mitigated by the noise generated by the protective mech?

Just thinking out loud , again pls correct me if i am wrong.

 

[Alrainbow]

Musicality is musicality. I don't care if it comes from a tube or a solid state circuit. I don't see any reason a tube DAC couldn't be perceived as more natural, organic and pleasant to listen to than a $300k solid state DAC package.
I do believe they are competitive packages. It would only take 1 serious reviewer to publish they prefer the Aphrodite and a lot of the $$$ based ego might be put aside in pursuit of better sound.
I myself wish I could afford a GG or better. I want better digital. But my house looks like this. Priorities.

How wide is the span on those beams , what size are they looks 2/10 or 12
What is the load above ?

 

[Kingrex]

How wide is the span on those beams , what size are they looks 2/10 or 12
What is the load above ?

I will post into my remodel thread and drop pictures of the progress.

 

[Alrainbow]

I have been on the quiet - was quite enthusiastic about this dac but not have a few doubts tbh - As always please feel free to correct me if i am wrong

1. Digital Modulation and filters ; this seems to be taking a very significant detour from the previous dacs where we now actively fiddle with the sound past the DAC stage . I am not sure i like that .Its like going off roon which we know has a great ui but bad for sound - then having a great dac but then putting in roon filters back into the chain. I think a dac should be a dac ie faithfully reproduce digital to analogue rather than fiddling using filters and modulation ....it sounds like a really big step backwards here

2. Streaming is inbuilt; i will ideally like these 2 circuits to be seperate. I imagine the streaming part needs more microprocessor components and that will introduce more noise into what is otherwise a pure dac circuit. Discrete components make sense at gear of this level

3. Femto clocks - well the crystek clocks used before are femto clocks and an ok spec i guess . I have installed a neutronstar clock in mine which is much better but thats comparing a $80 part to a $600 part. There is some other mil spec clocks out there; one that i found is a direct remove and replace . I will be curious what new femto clock is in there. The point is less so having a Femto clock but looking at having an OXCO or VXCO clock in there instead - one that has a direct and seperate poswer supply that can be on 24/7 and build within the dac itself. Correct me if I am wrong...the clocks are mainly for the usb board where we know usb is a bit of a dirty signal - if you use spdif it doesnt really matter - thats why i use spdif in my setup. The other clocks however do not control the dac chip? Looking at the AKM specs - it has a clock on board and i dont see a way of disabling that internal clock - i might be wrong here - very very keen on more input on this . So having a better clock maybe doesnt make a difference? You cant bypass the dac chip clock build internally from what i can see

4. Resistors at $50 and capacitors at $200 - well yes i share your pain too lukasz - good components are pricey. $200 caps however i will consider basic ....a dueland silver foil is $1300 usd for one for eg . Using good components like the former really works which was why i had a wishlist for you before - i will much much rather have the top components in there right from the start. I can tell from my own experience that duelund silver foils are like wow. They have to be used in combination with other foils though.

5. Tube Rolling. I think and humbly so....I have many more tubes - quantity and variety than a lot of ppl on this forum and most importantly as Lukasz has pointed out ..... most ppl have no idea what they are doing and plonk tubes left right and center - thats just silly. I can say that i have at least 4-5 tubes at the top of my head that run circles around the kt88 kt66 and el34. KT** and KT66 are noisy tubes - they lose detail easily - why trust a kinkless triode when you have a pentode - from memory it was invented after a pentode and only for competitive reasons between manufacturers. It will be quite presumptive if someone spends all that money on a dac and then analogous to tube rolling....use a normal kettle cord on this dac. Good tubes are no different to a good cable for the dac , a good fuse , isolation platforms etcetc. So ppl with no knowledge - dont do it yourself and make sure you get reputable suppliers for your tubes and adaptors - not what looks nice or what is described well on ebay - get ppl in the know to help you. Ppl with knowledge - well they should not be restricted in tube rolling.

6. Protective mechs on filament and transformers. I totally get this where ppl use tubes without testing to ensure they havnt shorted out before using them blowing out the tranny in the process. I agree the manufacturer should not be on the hook for these ; the other side of the coin though - i think there should be more tolerance build into the transformers. For another ? 50 euros you can increase the wattage of the transformer without increasing the size dramatically giving a bit of a buffer there . I do that all the time with my finemet transformers and chokes.

I think for a 2amp filament max draw on the transformers - spec the transformer for 2.5amp or 3amps. Thats the same way we approach caps and resistor sizing for circuits - always have that reserve there for safety.

Now coming to the protection mechs for the transformers - i cannot help but feel that this will be a detriment to the sound. This will have to be an active circuit - microprocessor controlled. So part of the benefit of an el transformer is probably mitigated by the noise generated by the protective mech?

Just thinking out loud , again pls correct me if i am wrong.

You do realize that your down to maybe two that got past the first sentence of tech lol
Much less there is no following all that goes on in digital products much less how the actual files get processed before it hits a dac input .
It all matters and your correct in your points . But sound is the end product ,and that is what we hear . And this again is complex given the analog goes onto many layers and process . So my point is end product sound .you know more then most all here how the analog output passed to let's a preamp is itself a myriad of tiny voltage impulses each crest and trough getting tugged at by the circuits own imperfections being amplified .
Now I'm exhausted in all this complex post hahahaha .
Man your a very smart person and I mean that sincerely .

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

I have been on the quiet - was quite enthusiastic about this dac but not have a few doubts tbh - As always please feel free to correct me if i am wrong

1. Digital Modulation and filters ; this seems to be taking a very significant detour from the previous dacs where we now actively fiddle with the sound past the DAC stage . I am not sure i like that .Its like going off roon which we know has a great ui but bad for sound - then having a great dac but then putting in roon filters back into the chain. I think a dac should be a dac ie faithfully reproduce digital to analogue rather than fiddling using filters and modulation ....it sounds like a really big step backwards here

2. Streaming is inbuilt; i will ideally like these 2 circuits to be seperate. I imagine the streaming part needs more microprocessor components and that will introduce more noise into what is otherwise a pure dac circuit. Discrete components make sense at gear of this level

3. Femto clocks - well the crystek clocks used before are femto clocks and an ok spec i guess . I have installed a neutronstar clock in mine which is much better but thats comparing a $80 part to a $600 part. There is some other mil spec clocks out there; one that i found is a direct remove and replace . I will be curious what new femto clock is in there. The point is less so having a Femto clock but looking at having an OXCO or VXCO clock in there instead - one that has a direct and seperate poswer supply that can be on 24/7 and build within the dac itself. Correct me if I am wrong...the clocks are mainly for the usb board where we know usb is a bit of a dirty signal - if you use spdif it doesnt really matter - thats why i use spdif in my setup. The other clocks however do not control the dac chip? Looking at the AKM specs - it has a clock on board and i dont see a way of disabling that internal clock - i might be wrong here - very very keen on more input on this . So having a better clock maybe doesnt make a difference? You cant bypass the dac chip clock build internally from what i can see

4. Resistors at $50 and capacitors at $200 - well yes i share your pain too lukasz - good components are pricey. $200 caps however i will consider basic ....a dueland silver foil is $1300 usd for one for eg . Using good components like the former really works which was why i had a wishlist for you before - i will much much rather have the top components in there right from the start. I can tell from my own experience that duelund silver foils are like wow. They have to be used in combination with other foils though.

5. Tube Rolling. I think and humbly so....I have many more tubes - quantity and variety than a lot of ppl on this forum and most importantly as Lukasz has pointed out ..... most ppl have no idea what they are doing and plonk tubes left right and center - thats just silly. I can say that i have at least 4-5 tubes at the top of my head that run circles around the kt88 kt66 and el34. KT** and KT66 are noisy tubes - they lose detail easily - why trust a kinkless triode when you have a pentode - from memory it was invented after a pentode and only for competitive reasons between manufacturers. It will be quite presumptive if someone spends all that money on a dac and then analogous to tube rolling....use a normal kettle cord on this dac. Good tubes are no different to a good cable for the dac , a good fuse , isolation platforms etcetc. So ppl with no knowledge - dont do it yourself and make sure you get reputable suppliers for your tubes and adaptors - not what looks nice or what is described well on ebay - get ppl in the know to help you. Ppl with knowledge - well they should not be restricted in tube rolling.

6. Protective mechs on filament and transformers. I totally get this where ppl use tubes without testing to ensure they havnt shorted out before using them blowing out the tranny in the process. I agree the manufacturer should not be on the hook for these ; the other side of the coin though - i think there should be more tolerance build into the transformers. For another ? 50 euros you can increase the wattage of the transformer without increasing the size dramatically giving a bit of a buffer there . I do that all the time with my finemet transformers and chokes.

I think for a 2amp filament max draw on the transformers - spec the transformer for 2.5amp or 3amps. Thats the same way we approach caps and resistor sizing for circuits - always have that reserve there for safety.

Now coming to the protection mechs for the transformers - i cannot help but feel that this will be a detriment to the sound. This will have to be an active circuit - microprocessor controlled. So part of the benefit of an el transformer is probably mitigated by the noise generated by the protective mech?

Just thinking out loud , again pls correct me if i am wrong.

Sir,
Have you seen the dac?
- no
Have you heard the dac?
-no
Do tou have insight into technical documentstion?
-no
Are you right on the 8 mentioned concerns?
- not really

Thank you very much.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

These are my first pics after finishing the first commercial unit. The look is standard finish for all this production run

 

[keithc]

These are my first pics after finishing the first commercial unit. The look is standard finish for all this production run

Look at all that glass!
Now I understand its name. It's a sonic sex machine! Absolutely beautiful.

 

[nonesup]

These are my first pics after finishing the first commercial unit. The look is standard finish for all this production run

Lukasz, is that anodized?

 

[Alrainbow]

You mean like taiko 2 year process

 

[Golum]

I would say powder coated as H is…

 

[Steve Williams]

I wanted to give an update to those who are planning on coming from out of town to attend the weekend open house Im hosting for Lukasz and Fred to introduce their new Aphrodite DAC. I have had a surge of out of towners sending RSVP's today and they are telling me that the local hotels I have recommended are either full or have only a few rooms left . So if youre wanting to attend and have the convenience of staying locally to me I would suggest you think of booking now. In fact much to my amazement most of those who have replied are coming from out of town.

Today I had an RSVP from one member who lives in China and another member from Poland who will be attending. There is one other member from Montana who has relatives in Poland and planned on hearing the Aphrodite at at Warsaw Audio show next month He is also trying to rearrange his schedule to attend my event here in SoCal

So again to all interested please PM me and bear in mind that Friday is evening only for a few hours, Saturday will go from 1000-500 and as we've done before Lukasz usually kicks off the day with a 20 minute talk on his latest DAC and answer any questions people might have

Sunday will go from 1000 until 200 (at the latest) as I will be driving Fred and Lukasz to two different airports to catch their flights home

I look forward to meeting new faces and to reacquaint old friendships with those of you who have attended before. It promises to be a fun week end

 

[rspyder]

ahhh ok this has been floating around a while - correct me if i am wrong . star grounding is connecting all ground points onto one point ie like a star . in other words this is like common grounding , no difference to what most manufacturers do when they ground components to the chassis. Luksz for eg pretty much use common grounding on the tube boards in the dacs where there is a single ground wire coming out .

i think quite a few ppl then connect this star grounding to the ground lug on the lampi which is the worst thing to do. to illustrate earth ground also has a voltage potential which means that one ground can contaminate the other . in fact star grounding is the worst schema ever where you are exposing one ground plane to the other. Which is why in the shunyata altaire they seperate ground terminals and in the telos as well etcetc

Star grounding is just common ground and if the designer is not careful can make the sound worse

also grounding for tubes came about when i started using pathaudio resisters or in the case of c3gs where there is a can shield.We cannot ground tubes without a ground pin and also without an external shield. If laszlo is creating a ground plane then it would be possible in the circuit by having a cathode bypass and messing with the bias of that tube. I dont think that adaptor space can fit all that discrete components + on top of that the circuit board already does that so we shouldnt mess around with it at all. If indeed he has connected cathode to the ground in those adaptors - it is hardly a safe thing to do. + in the lampi dacs the ground wire for the tube board is already connected to the grounding lug at the back of the dac - so ancillary grounding on the level of the adaptor ....hmmm not sure. What we should be using should be discrete grounding . ie a seperate ground plane disconnected from earth ground for each grounding point. That i have used to good effect. If we look at some japanese gear - earth ground is not connected to components for a good reason. Now this is not about product safety because i know very well why we earth ground but for the sound - star/common and earth grounding is not what it seems .

If you look at the schema of all those tubes we use none of them have a ground pin.

Maybe Laszlo is grounding the anode wire - that i have certainly done to good effect using old nos tonearm wires in the adaptors i use in my rig but those are far and few in between + given the short short length of wire in the adaptor - it really doesnt make a difference so long as you have the geonetry of the wires right in relation to one another. I do these for long runs of wire where we need to connect up anode caps up top and in no other situation. Its not everyday you take apart a 80-100 yr old bakelite tonearm just to harvest the wires there for use.

And so goes the confusing debate between signal ground and earth ground. DACs, including the H360, employ the former for a host of reasons not the least of which is compliance with IEC standards and certification. Laszlo's grounding harness and the Horizon's external grounding post addresses the latter. More speaker manufactures, like Stenheim, are providing similar earth ground options because they work in reducing "induced" sources of noise including noise harvested within the signal ground of connected components.

 

[Steve Williams]

Im not a grounding expert but I do know that I have used Laszlos'grounding system in my h360 with terrific results. Im hoping he will make me a new one for the Aphrodite

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have been on the quiet - was quite enthusiastic about this dac but not have a few doubts tbh - As always please feel free to correct me if i am wrong

1. Digital Modulation and filters ; this seems to be taking a very significant detour from the previous dacs where we now actively fiddle with the sound past the DAC stage . I am not sure i like that .Its like going off roon which we know has a great ui but bad for sound - then having a great dac but then putting in roon filters back into the chain. I think a dac should be a dac ie faithfully reproduce digital to analogue rather than fiddling using filters and modulation ....it sounds like a really big step backwards here

2. Streaming is inbuilt; i will ideally like these 2 circuits to be seperate. I imagine the streaming part needs more microprocessor components and that will introduce more noise into what is otherwise a pure dac circuit. Discrete components make sense at gear of this level

3. Femto clocks - well the crystek clocks used before are femto clocks and an ok spec i guess . I have installed a neutronstar clock in mine which is much better but thats comparing a $80 part to a $600 part. There is some other mil spec clocks out there; one that i found is a direct remove and replace . I will be curious what new femto clock is in there. The point is less so having a Femto clock but looking at having an OXCO or VXCO clock in there instead - one that has a direct and seperate poswer supply that can be on 24/7 and build within the dac itself. Correct me if I am wrong...the clocks are mainly for the usb board where we know usb is a bit of a dirty signal - if you use spdif it doesnt really matter - thats why i use spdif in my setup. The other clocks however do not control the dac chip? Looking at the AKM specs - it has a clock on board and i dont see a way of disabling that internal clock - i might be wrong here - very very keen on more input on this . So having a better clock maybe doesnt make a difference? You cant bypass the dac chip clock build internally from what i can see

4. Resistors at $50 and capacitors at $200 - well yes i share your pain too lukasz - good components are pricey. $200 caps however i will consider basic ....a dueland silver foil is $1300 usd for one for eg . Using good components like the former really works which was why i had a wishlist for you before - i will much much rather have the top components in there right from the start. I can tell from my own experience that duelund silver foils are like wow. They have to be used in combination with other foils though.

5. Tube Rolling. I think and humbly so....I have many more tubes - quantity and variety than a lot of ppl on this forum and most importantly as Lukasz has pointed out ..... most ppl have no idea what they are doing and plonk tubes left right and center - thats just silly. I can say that i have at least 4-5 tubes at the top of my head that run circles around the kt88 kt66 and el34. KT** and KT66 are noisy tubes - they lose detail easily - why trust a kinkless triode when you have a pentode - from memory it was invented after a pentode and only for competitive reasons between manufacturers. It will be quite presumptive if someone spends all that money on a dac and then analogous to tube rolling....use a normal kettle cord on this dac. Good tubes are no different to a good cable for the dac , a good fuse , isolation platforms etcetc. So ppl with no knowledge - dont do it yourself and make sure you get reputable suppliers for your tubes and adaptors - not what looks nice or what is described well on ebay - get ppl in the know to help you. Ppl with knowledge - well they should not be restricted in tube rolling.

6. Protective mechs on filament and transformers. I totally get this where ppl use tubes without testing to ensure they havnt shorted out before using them blowing out the tranny in the process. I agree the manufacturer should not be on the hook for these ; the other side of the coin though - i think there should be more tolerance build into the transformers. For another ? 50 euros you can increase the wattage of the transformer without increasing the size dramatically giving a bit of a buffer there . I do that all the time with my finemet transformers and chokes.

I think for a 2amp filament max draw on the transformers - spec the transformer for 2.5amp or 3amps. Thats the same way we approach caps and resistor sizing for circuits - always have that reserve there for safety.

Now coming to the protection mechs for the transformers - i cannot help but feel that this will be a detriment to the sound. This will have to be an active circuit - microprocessor controlled. So part of the benefit of an el transformer is probably mitigated by the noise generated by the protective mech?

Just thinking out loud , again pls correct me if i am wrong.

You're fencing with Lukasz about a long list of theoretical issues and your personal design preferences, and asking him to defend technical design decisions against your subjective, personal preferences on a DAC no one has heard?

Why?

 

[simonthepieman]

These are my first pics after finishing the first commercial unit. The look is standard finish for all this production run

wow , quick question is the usb socket the same as H360 expensive cables ?

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

wow , quick question is the usb socket the same as H360 expensive cables ?

We changed the type of usb socket for a much more robust cast zinc type.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

Lukasz, is that anodized?

We completely walked away from anodizing 3 years ago and never looked back

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

You're fencing with Lukasz about a long list of theoretical issues and your personal design preferences, and asking him to defend technical design decisions against your subjective, personal preferences on a DAC no one has heard?

Why?

I felt like a student examined by a professor, except the professor doesnt have any electronic education and zero background, zero succesfuly designed, built and marketed products. Very weird feeling to say the least.

 

[nonesup]

We completely walked away from anodizing 3 years ago and never looked back

So what finish does it have, is it powder coating as Golum indicates?