Best audiophile switch

[matthias]

…and in my understanding, Taiko Audio has probably been using VLANs in their Extreme router–switch setup since implementing their network.

You made some good points in this thread but regarding this I disagree.
If you do a search here with VLAN and TAIKO AUDIO you will find that Emile is not very fond of VLANs

 

[Di-fi]

You made some good points in this thread but regarding this I disagree.
If you do a search here with VLAN and TAIKO AUDIO you will find that Emile is not very fond of VLANs

Thanks Matthias, I might have been mixing things up with other network isolation strategies Taiko uses. Because they definitely achieve a separation as is my understanding, if you knowmore about that? I’ll re-read Emile’s comments on VLANs to get it straight, if you have a link handy, that would be super helpful.

Emile is not very fond of VLANs

The only reason I can think of, and not related to VLANs improving sound quality, would be that a tablet or NAS on the home network wouldn’t see the Taiko setup without some extra configuration.

Does your network have an impact on sound?
From Taiko Audio’s (admittedly sometimes a little dated) FAQ page:

(…) All network activity causes noise, every data packet travelling your domestic network introduces electrical activity travelling your entire network which is just 1 “subnet”.
This also means your music sever will “see” all data packets travelling your network, it will “investigate” every packet to check if it contains data adressed to it.
A domestic switch will simply replicate all data on it’s input to all it’s outputs, a smart switch provides you with a degree of control over this, so you can segment your network, reducing network traffic on specific links. Again this is advanced networking, none of the “audiophile” switches support this. (…) Now how does all of this influence playback quality of the Extreme? Well it does, no way around it. So what we have done is running a whole lot of different network setups and combinations to identify the largest disturbances to sound quality (..).

From current Taiko Extreme router manual

• The Router creates a separate clean Audio-only network in series with (connected downstream of) your Internet Service Provider-supplied modem/router or any other router.

• The addition of the Extreme Router creates an audio exclusive (isolated) network unimpaired by typical home network processes and traffic, which yields a huge increase in the naturalness, low-level resolution, and spatial rendition of local and streaming music.

I could only guess how they solved that, a router could, for example, use (at least two) VLANs. That was my thinking. I’m not debating, just looking to learn from others’ experiences on how this kind of network separation and SQ improvement is handled in practice. Anyone?

 

[kennyb123]

I might have been mixing things up with other network isolation strategies Taiko uses. Because they definitely achieve a separation as is my understanding, if you knowmore about that? I’ll re-read Emile’s comments on VLANs to get it straight, if you have a link handy, that would be super helpful.

I am confused too as I thought that their router established a logically separate network. That’s what a VLAN establishes.

 

[kennyb123]

Curious to see how Origin + Tempus performs

The Tempus Mk2 power supply incorporated some learnings from the Origin, so it is my understanding that it remains the best choice for Tempus as it has been optimized specifically for Tempus. I could be wrong though.

 

[Di-fi]

The Tempus Mk2 power supply incorporated some learnings from the Origin, so it is my understanding that it remains the best choice for Tempus as it has been optimized specifically for Tempus. I could be wrong though.

Rob Osbourne said the Tempus PSU was specifically tailored for the Tempus switch, while Richard Trussell explained the Origin was first conceived to tackle router noise before showing benefits across the streaming chain. That tells me the design goals were different. How those goals influenced the choice of components inside, beyond the different case materials, and the solid Weipu 2 (not 4) - pin DC plug, is something we can only guess at.

 

[NigelB]

It feels like this helpful thread about the Best Audiophile Switch would be revitalised by someone posting about their recent listening experiences.

 

[kennyb123]

Rob Osbourne said the Tempus PSU was specifically tailored for the Tempus switch, while Richard Trussell explained the Origin was first conceived to tackle router noise before showing benefits across the streaming chain. That tells me the design goals were different.

One would expect that power supply designed to be the perfect ideal match for a switch designed by the same designer would not be an ideal or even optimal match for a router or switch designed by someone else. The Origin would have to be engineered to work across a variety of products and with that likely came a series of tradeoffs. Not so with the Mk2 supply.

 

[kennyb123]

It feels like this helpful thread about the Best Audiophile Switch would be revitalised by someone posting about their recent listening experiences.

I had been sharing impressions of my recently-acquired tempus switch in the tempus switch thread, but since you asked I can mention something here.

The tempus has profoundly exceeded my expectations. I have been in flabbergasted-mode since it landed as I still can’t believe a switch can have such a profound and musically-important impact. I expected it to reduce the noise floor and bring with it the ability to hear deeper into the music. It most certainly did that. What I failed to expect though was how much this has contributed to making everything sound more real.

The improvement is striking, for example, with the following recoding. Pun intended as how the strike of a hammer leads to the sounds we hear from a piano filling a room was made much more clear and convincing by the tempus. Another pun in my use of “clear” as improved clarity is a big part of so is timing. The ASDR (attack, sustain, decay, release) envelope was getting smeared without the tempus and portions of it were getting obscured by noise. Piano now fills the room in which the recording took place (and thus my listening room) in much more believable way. Timbre is more spot on thanks to the proper ordering of the ASDR. I hear this across all types of music. Everything sounds better - and it doesn’t matter if the music is stored on my server’s local drive or my NAS. (Ironically I’ve yet to stream from Qobuz since it landed).

In conclusion, I am now of the belief that, if realism is important, one should get the best switch they can afford (just after getting the best server they can afford). Noise is realism’s number one enemy so the better it can be beaten back the more realistic the music will sound.

 

[jasond]

NA Origin PSU – Something New?

Network Acoustics’ Origin PSU is here, marketed for “digital devices.” But haven’t all high-end PSUs mostly been used for network or streaming gear?

Originally conceived by NA to tackle noise from routers, the recent Origin Streaming Power Supply (5 V or 12 V) builds on their earlier Tempus PSU. Like the Tempus it’s hybrid, but now with a metal case instead of plastic and a much broader scope ; supporting switches, streamers, DACs, and optical converters.

Curious to see how Origin + Tempus performs and whether the benefits observed with routers fully carry over to switches.

There is a new and very positive review at https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/network-acoustics-origin-stream-power/

 

[Di-fi]

It feels like this helpful thread about the Best Audiophile Switch would be revitalised by someone posting about their recent listening experiences.

I think this thread is really important for understanding the role of the switch within the whole network. I do visit and contribute here and elsewhere on a regular basis, but the reality is that once you’ve chosen a switch it’s usually a “set it and forget it” item, which I guess is quite common. Unless one of us changes to a new switch, or audio networking takes a sudden leap forward, there isn’t always much new to report.

That said, I’m really glad we were instantly served by Kenny’s contribution above. For my part, I’m passionate about audio and fascinated by how networks can impact the sound. Since I had to downsize but kept my eR (and K50), I could well be lightyears behind you ;-). Still, this is the one area I can tinker with, assemble and reassemble, hoping to squeeze out some improvements. And that’s why forums like this are so important. But I do agree, the bread and butter here are exactly the kind of comments Kenny just shared :

“The Tempus has profoundly exceeded my expectations. I have been in flabbergasted-mode since it landed, as I still can’t believe a switch can have such a profound and musically important impact.”

but I want to understand why…

 

[Di-fi]

There is a new and very positive review at https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/network-acoustics-origin-stream-power/

Rich Trussell also mentioned that Origin can be used with an internet router to good effect

Thanks. Originally conceived to tackle router noise, the Origin Streaming Power Supply seems to show the design mission works. Using it on his router, even 25 m from the listening room, it delivered precision, detail, and openness nearly on par with powering the Lumin streamer itself. (Adding a second Origin on the streamer and one on the router brought further gains).

 

[Network Acoustics]

Hopefully, i can clarify things. Tempus and its PSU were developed approximately three years ago, whereas Origin was completed 12 months ago. The tempus PSU was specifically designed for the tempus switch. While Origin adopted a similar design philosophy, it was up rated to be compatible with a wider range of digital devices, such as ISP routers, modems, switches, DDC, DACs, streamers, and media converters.
Rob@NA

 

[PYP]

Still, this is the one area I can tinker with, assemble and reassemble, hoping to squeeze out some improvements. And that’s why forums like this are so important. But I do agree, the bread and butter here are exactly the kind of comments Kenny just shared :

but I want to understand why…

me too. Although since setups are so different, perhaps we cannot generalize a result. That said, if enough people chime in about a positive result, then that can lead us to try for ourselves -- the only true test.

I'm sure NA is having great success with their switch as it is, but there might also be a market for something smaller with fewer connections and built-in LPS. Well, that describes what would interest me at any rate.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Can confirm, Origin feeding my router (dedicated to audio) brought an improvement in SQ IME. I used a Sean Jacobs PSU for the purpose before. Blacker background mainly.
Secondly I solved an issue related to audible buzz from the transformer, due to the Hybrid new power supply.

 

[Di-fi]

Secondly I solved an issue related to audible buzz from the transformer, due to the Hybrid new power supply.

....by using the Integrated Earthing Post on the Origin? Or was the issue with the previous SJ psu?

 

[Di-fi]

Hopefully, i can clarify things. Tempus and its PSU were developed approximately three years ago, whereas Origin was completed 12 months ago. The tempus PSU was specifically designed for the tempus switch. While Origin adopted a similar design philosophy, it was up rated to be compatible with a wider range of digital devices, such as ISP routers, modems, switches, DDC, DACs, streamers, and media converters.
Rob@NA

Thanks Rob, that helps a lot.

I see now that Tempus PSU was really tailored for the Tempus switch, while Origin was designed later to cover a much broader set of devices. My interest in the router and specifically how it's powered, came from the idea that it might be an under-acknowledged part of the chain, so it’s good to understand that Origin was actually developed with exactly that wider application in mind.

I’ve also been intrigued by your mention of Origin’s “hybrid power supply architecture” and its four-stage filtering process. Could you help clarify what that entails exactly, especially how combining SMPS with multi-stage filtering helps preserve dynamics and timing upstream in the network?

I’ll keep following with interest how far upstream improvements like at the router (or modem) can shape overall SQ.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

....by using the Integrated Earthing Post on the Origin? Or was the issue with the previous SJ psu?

Both the old PSU and the Origin sport a ground lug, that I use to connect to a CAD GC1. So there is a different reason I guess.

 

[Network Acoustics]

me too. Although since setups are so different, perhaps we cannot generalize a result. That said, if enough people chime in about a positive result, then that can lead us to try for ourselves -- the only true test.

I'm sure NA is having great success with their switch as it is, but there might also be a market for something smaller with fewer connections and built-in LPS. Well, that describes what would interest me at any rate.

We hear you and we're working on it. Rob@NA

 

[PYP]

We hear you and we're working on it. Rob@NA

out of an unselfish concern for audiophiles everywhere, if you need a beta tester based in the U.S. just let me know.

 

[Di-fi]

I am confused too as I thought that their router established a logically separate network. That’s what a VLAN establishes.

EDIT (self-correction): I did some more research. It doesn’t confirm Emile’s (Taiko) dislike of VLANs, so his reason why still intrigues me. ’I want to know why…..’

I’ll answer myself though: I stand corrected regarding Taiko’s use of VLANs. There is actually one audio network preconfigured on the Taiko router. The router comes set up with Port Forwarding rules to allow for example Roon control from devices connected to your home Wi-Fi network. Further Port Forwarding can be configured (for example, to access the server via VNC, or to enable file sharing from the home network to the Taiko Audio network.

Two different ways of having an audio network and a home network coexisting. Both are definitely better for limiting traffic than having all home network activity visible to your audio devices, since excess network traffic can impact playback quality.

TL;DR: network separation matters more than the specific method (VLAN vs preconfigured audio network).