Has anyone moved on from idlers, Garrards??

[jazzdude99]

Waxed? That does not cause slipping?

Sorry for the late response. No the wax doesn’t cause slipping - the opposite in fact - like rosin on a violin bow

 

[AudioHR]

Even though I've only had my GM III a short time, looking to change it for the GM IV. I'm led to believe it being steel and almost completely redesigned, it's radically better.

Will wait for your report!
Really not sure what upgrade I will make. At Munich a few years back I listened to the Fremer panel discussion on Vinyl Playback Technology I was actually impressed by all of the discussion but regarding this thread, the Ortofon replicant technology really intrigued me.

 

[Wutang-401`]

@rarbonneau just to come back to the la platine and belts for it - just to tie this off:
- double looped silk is the best no arguments (i have quite exhaustively tried alot of variants including cotton, suture silk, linen thread, wool thread, transrotor belt, epdm belt, goldring belt)
- double looped silk thread (with motor nice and close) magically drops noise floor and gives you dynamics one loop doesn't. you are going for some tension. not alot. but also not minimal tension such as u would with linen (as makes it very difficult to get platter up to speed due to silk slippage)

 

[jeff1225]

My Verdier arrived yesterday and I will begin setting it up and comparing it to my tricked out Garrard 401, Thorens TD124, and Technics SP10 mk2. I assume that I will sell one of the idlers to have all three technologies in the music room: idler, direct drive, and belt.

I do have another stand and might keep all 4. But we shall see as I want to keep the mid century aesthetic to the room and don’t want it to look like a cluttered mess.

 

[jazzdude99]

@rarbonneau just to come back to the la platine and belts for it - just to tie this off:
- double looped silk is the best no arguments (i have quite exhaustively tried alot of variants including cotton, suture silk, linen thread, wool thread, transrotor belt, epdm belt, goldring belt)
- double looped silk thread (with motor nice and close) magically drops noise floor and gives you dynamics one loop doesn't. you are going for some tension. not alot. but also not minimal tension such as u would with linen (as makes it very difficult to get platter up to speed due to silk slippage)

Hi Wutang 401 - is there a particular silk thread you recommend? Is it on Amazon?
Many Thx
Andy

 

[rarbonneau]

@rarbonneau just to come back to the la platine and belts for it - just to tie this off:
- double looped silk is the best no arguments (i have quite exhaustively tried alot of variants including cotton, suture silk, linen thread, wool thread, transrotor belt, epdm belt, goldring belt)
- double looped silk thread (with motor nice and close) magically drops noise floor and gives you dynamics one loop doesn't. you are going for some tension. not alot. but also not minimal tension such as u would with linen (as makes it very difficult to get platter up to speed due to silk slippage)

Thanks Wutang for the answer. I ended up not buying the turntable, I was going to purchase it, I even had ordered silk thread, then I ended up on an audiogon thread where they were debating the metal ball, to use it, not to use it, how to use it, it must touch the ball very lightly or else you have no bass. I did a search on it and found a page long instruction on how to install it, where I understood nothing. Completely discouraged me. My local dealer just sold it, so most likely Jazzdude99's new turntable, congratulation Jazzdude, enjoy your new turntable, it is a beauty.

 

[jeff1225]

Thanks Wutang for the answer. I ended up not buying the turntable, I was going to purchase it, I even had ordered silk thread, then I ended up on an audiogon thread where they were debating the metal ball, to use it, not to use it, how to use it, it must touch the ball very lightly or else you have no bass. I did a search on it and found a page long instruction on how to install it, where I understood nothing. Completely discouraged me. My local dealer just sold it, so most likely Jazzdude99's new turntable, congratulation Jazzdude, enjoy your new turntable, it is a beauty.

Actually, I bought this table from your local dealer.

 

[rarbonneau]

Actually, I bought this table from your local dealer.

Looking forward to your feedback, who knows I might buy a new one if ever Heinz finally manages to fabricate them properly. What tonearm will you be using ?

 

[jeff1225]

Looking forward to your feedback, who knows I might buy a new one if ever Heinz finally manages to fabricate them properly. What tonearm will you be using ?

I use two different tonearms which I will use on the Verdier: the SME 3012R and the Thomas Schick 12". I prefer the 3012R for my high compliance cartridges like VDH and moving magnets and the Schick for the lower compliance SPU's.

 

[Wutang-401`]

Hi Wutang 401 - is there a particular silk thread you recommend? Is it on Amazon?
Many Thx
Andy

well i use Gutterman's Silk thread. this is what was available locally really. congratulations on your La Platine. it is both very easy to get up and running but then lots of things to potentially optimise. very rewarding. it will be interesting for me to hear what you think of it post the idlers in your life. i loved my 401 but felt like it had a hard floor from which sound began. i don't know what that means but it felt like i only got part of the signal. lacking subtlety perhaps or air.

when the la platine is really "on", i feel like i get more depth. like i can somehow see on the other side of the note somehow. like the sound stage becomes a sphere (but not). certainly i can say it becomes "prettier", more "ethereal" and less "hammer and tongs". 401 was hammer and tongs all day which was fabulous until one began to wonder if there was more to life than massive amounts of thunderous bass.

 

[jeff1225]

well i use Gutterman's Silk thread. this is what was available locally really. congratulations on your La Platine. it is both very easy to get up and running but then lots of things to potentially optimise. very rewarding. it will be interesting for me to hear what you think of it post the idlers in your life. i loved my 401 but felt like it had a hard floor from which sound began. i don't know what that means but it felt like i only got part of the signal. lacking subtlety perhaps or air.

when the la platine is really "on", i feel like i get more depth. like i can somehow see on the other side of the note somehow. like the sound stage becomes a sphere (but not). certainly i can say it becomes "prettier", more "ethereal" and less "hammer and tongs". 401 was hammer and tongs all day which was fabulous until one began to wonder if there was more to life than massive amounts of thunderous bass.

I think the Platine will be a nice contrast to the 401. I listen to a lot of jazz and classical and believe that the Platine will bring my classical listening to another level.

 

[jazzdude99]

well i use Gutterman's Silk thread. this is what was available locally really. congratulations on your La Platine. it is both very easy to get up and running but then lots of things to potentially optimise. very rewarding. it will be interesting for me to hear what you think of it post the idlers in your life. i loved my 401 but felt like it had a hard floor from which sound began. i don't know what that means but it felt like i only got part of the signal. lacking subtlety perhaps or air.

when the la platine is really "on", i feel like i get more depth. like i can somehow see on the other side of the note somehow. like the sound stage becomes a sphere (but not). certainly i can say it becomes "prettier", more "ethereal" and less "hammer and tongs". 401 was hammer and tongs all day which was fabulous until one began to wonder if there was more to life than massive amounts of thunderous bass.

Thanks for the info on the gutter man silk Wutang - I’ll give that one a try. I’ve had my Verdier about 2 years now, it has been my dream turntable for the last 20 years, and I finally had the chance to get one. Mine came from a guy in Canada. Have enjoyed it with two or three different arms and a handful of cartridges ever since

My other table is a Technics SP10 mk2 which I haven’t listened to since getting the verdier.

Andy

 

[mtemur]

My other table is a Technics SP10 mk2 which I haven’t listened to since getting the verdier.

That’s in line with my experience. I bought a Technics SL-1000 Mk2 as a second table but couldn’t stand listening to it. Don’t get me wrong, it was in pristine condition both visually and mechanically, but I ended up selling it. In my opinion, Technics is a joke.

 

[jeff1225]

That’s in line with my experience. I bought a Technics SL-1000 Mk2 as a second table but couldn’t stand listening to it. Don’t get me wrong, it was in pristine condition both visually and mechanically, but I ended up selling it. In my opinion, Technics is a joke.

It’s the least engaging of my 3 tables.

 

[kozzmo]

My Verdier arrived yesterday and I will begin setting it up and comparing it to my tricked out Garrard 401, Thorens TD124, and Technics SP10 mk2. I assume that I will sell one of the idlers to have all three technologies in the music room: idler, direct drive, and belt.

I do have another stand and might keep all 4. But we shall see as I want to keep the mid century aesthetic to the room and don’t want it to look like a cluttered mess.

how are you liking the Verdier???

 

[jeff1225]

how are you liking the Verdier???

So far so good. It has the table has the musicality of the Garrard 401 with a little more fidelity.

 

[Wutang-401`]

as a former 401 user and now verdier owner i think that's a very succinct and good description. i don't feel it suffers re: dynamics or even bass in comparison with 401 but yes, a little more detail, a little more air and more high end. possibly mid bass is where i hear the "most" additional resolution/fidelity.

 

[jeff1225]

as a former 401 user and now verdier owner i think that's a very succinct and good description. i don't feel it suffers re: dynamics or even bass in comparison with 401 but yes, a little more detail, a little more air and more high end. possibly mid bass is where i hear the "most" additional resolution/fidelity.

I like having two tables so the Verdier is a nice addition. I think the Verdier is slightly better but the jury is still out.

 

[Wutang-401`]

@jeff1225 please may i know how are you using the La platine? as in are you:
- original motor
- original footers for platine or different
- motor on same shelf or isolated and if not isolated is the motor on footers etc?
- what thread/belt are you using?

i have been working on isolating the table from the motor noise (my motor is quite chattery) and it has very much elevated the performance i think and especially so for classical music. isolation from motor noise and silk thread double looped have been a big deal for me. i have a cheap wellfloat coming to see if the motor on that cleans it up even more.

 

[jeff1225]

@jeff1225 please may i know how are you using the La platine? as in are you:
- original motor
- original footers for platine or different
- motor on same shelf or isolated and if not isolated is the motor on footers etc?
- what thread/belt are you using?

i have been working on isolating the table from the motor noise (my motor is quite chattery) and it has very much elevated the performance i think and especially so for classical music. isolation from motor noise and silk thread double looped have been a big deal for me. i have a cheap wellfloat coming to see if the motor on that cleans it up even more.

Here’s how it’s currently set up:

-original motor (it’s quite and works great)
-original footers.
-motor on the same shelf
-rubber belt

I just bought some Corian arm pods from Germany and will try them soon.