What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???

[Atmasphere]

Dave Wilson had some solidstate amplifiers (Ayre monoblock, Parasound and D'Agostino) in his showroom and also in some audio shows but (maybe I am wrong) those solidstate amplifiers were used for powering subwoofers not main towers.
Dave Wilson mainly used VTL (tube amplification) for powering big Wilsons.

I listened to big Wilsons with many different amplifiers but finally I convinced big wilsons are better with tubes

They were designed on ARC. During the 1990s and early 200s their national sales manager used our amps on his speakers; from that its clear the speakers at the time were meant to be an easy load for tube amps.

The Watt/Puppy had a famous peak in the midrange/high end due to a resonance in the tweeter. Dave used a 2KHz filter trap to quell the resonance. A trap is a low impedance in parallel with the existing. If you were to use a solid state amp with that the amp would dump power into that trap (where a tube amp would lose power); clearly Dave was designing for tubes and in so doing was not following the 'Voltage driven' rules that govern most speaker designs.

 

[LL21]

They were designed on ARC. During the 1990s and early 200s their national sales manager used our amps on his speakers; from that its clear the speakers at the time were meant to be an easy load for tube amps.

The Watt/Puppy had a famous peak in the midrange/high end due to a resonance in the tweeter. Dave used a 2KHz filter trap to quell the resonance. A trap is a low impedance in parallel with the existing. If you were to use a solid state amp with that the amp would dump power into that trap (where a tube amp would lose power); clearly Dave was designing for tubes and in so doing was not following the 'Voltage driven' rules that govern most speaker designs.

Thank you and fascinating to read this and learn.

I have certainly seen DW playing his newer speakers (WAMMs for example) with the new D'Agostino big monos. That may have been professional courtesy/commerciality. But it could also be his designs have definitely evolved.

 

[Amir]

They were designed on ARC. During the 1990s and early 200s their national sales manager used our amps on his speakers; from that its clear the speakers at the time were meant to be an easy load for tube amps.

The Watt/Puppy had a famous peak in the midrange/high end due to a resonance in the tweeter. Dave used a 2KHz filter trap to quell the resonance. A trap is a low impedance in parallel with the existing. If you were to use a solid state amp with that the amp would dump power into that trap (where a tube amp would lose power); clearly Dave was designing for tubes and in so doing was not following the 'Voltage driven' rules that govern most speaker designs.

Thank you for information

 

[tima]

clearly Dave was designing for tubes and in so doing was not following the 'Voltage driven' rules that govern most speaker designs.

I wonder what were the factors that led him to a different approach.

 

[Atmasphere]

I wonder what were the factors that led him to a different approach.

He was designing along lines I call the Power Paradigm.

 

[goldeneraguy]

I recall hearing the original Watt with a Quicksilver KT 88 amp.
It was the first time I heard background singers on a Susan Vega Album.
Just stunning , funny because I still don't care for KT 88 tubes

 

[microstrip]

They were designed on ARC. During the 1990s and early 200s their national sales manager used our amps on his speakers; from that its clear the speakers at the time were meant to be an easy load for tube amps.

The Watt/Puppy had a famous peak in the midrange/high end due to a resonance in the tweeter. Dave used a 2KHz filter trap to quell the resonance. A trap is a low impedance in parallel with the existing. If you were to use a solid state amp with that the amp would dump power into that trap (where a tube amp would lose power); clearly Dave was designing for tubes and in so doing was not following the 'Voltage driven' rules that govern most speaker designs.

If we look at the Wilson Audiofiles newsletter that span from 2000 to 2008 we see that most of the time they demoed their speakers in shows with tube amplifiers.

At that time I owned the Watt Puppy system V and VII mostly with conrad johnson and Audio Research - and since than all my Wilsons were used with tubes. Only recently the top Agostino's tempted me in sound quality, not in price!

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Only recently the top Agostino's tempted me in sound quality, not in price!

...oh, but they're sold by the pound!

I saw/heard them in Singapore and was astonished by the size.

 

[mtemur]

If we look at the Wilson Audiofiles newsletter that span from 2000 to 2008 we see that most of the time they demoed their speakers in shows with tube amplifiers.

At that time I owned the Watt Puppy system V and VII mostly with conrad johnson and Audio Research - and since than all my Wilsons were used with tubes. Only recently the top Agostino's tempted me in sound quality, not in price!

I listened to various Wilson Watt/Puppy models (5.1, 6, 7, and 8) between 2005 and 2010 with different amplifiers, both tube and solid-state. Regardless of the amplifier type, the W/P always sounded poor to me—boomy, uncontrolled bass and a forward midrange. My friends could never solve that issue either, because the Watt and Puppy never truly integrated to deliver a coherent, balanced sound.

One thing that became clear from Wilson’s own demos of W/P using tube amps is their poor amplifier choice, as well as the flawed integration between the Watt and Puppy.

P.S. Of course Audio Research and Conrad Johnson were among the amps we tried. Watt is an excellent speaker and all an owner need to do is to trash the Puppy.

 

[microstrip]

I listened to various Wilson Watt/Puppy models (5.1, 6, 7, and 8) between 2005 and 2010 with different amplifiers, both tube and solid-state. Regardless of the amplifier type, the W/P always sounded poor to me—boomy, uncontrolled bass and a forward midrange. My friends could never solve that issue either, because the Watt and Puppy never truly integrated to deliver a coherent, balanced sound.

Well, IMO probably the reason is either your specific preference or your friends set up. A good friend still owns my Watt/Puppy 7 driven by a conrad johnson premier 350 (solid state, he dislikes power amplifiers tube maintenance) and they do not sound boomy or have a forward midrange at all.

One thing that became clear from Wilson’s own demos of W/P using tube amps is their poor amplifier choice, as well as the flawed integration between the Watt and Puppy.

P.S. Of course Audio Research and Conrad Johnson were among the amps we tried. Watt is an excellent speaker and all an owner need to do is to trash the Puppy.

Surely some people prefer a sound with less and more taut bass, there is not such thing as an universal preference. But as I owned system 5 and 7 I collected an impressive list of of positive opinions on them, as well as mine. BTW, did you listen to the recent Watt Puppy?

 

[mtemur]

Well, IMO probably the reason is either your specific preference or your friends set up.

That was not the reason, lack of integration between Puppy and Watt is the reason.

BTW, did you listen to the recent Watt Puppy?

No, I haven't. I hope they did a better job this time.

 

[Amir]

It seems Roy Gregory read here and recently wrote about SET/Horn in his website :

https://gy8.eu/blog/think-piece/loudness-wars/

 

[Hear Here]

It seems Roy Gregory read here and recently wrote about SET/Horn in his website :

https://gy8.eu/blog/think-piece/loudness-wars/

Not quite sure what Roy Gregory is hoping readers will benefit from his theses, but perhaps some will. He criticises SETs for their low power and suggests that their simple circuit exposes the quality of the power supply to the speaker, but that's not my experience with well-designed SETs. My speakers are such an easy load (107 dB if you believe this / 18 ohm) that even my 6-watt PX-25 amp made wonderful music as long as you weren't intending to recreate a 90-piece orchestra blasting away! The 845-based ones were good for full-scale orchestral though!

I've switched to solid state now with no regrets - Class D to rub salt into some people's wounds! It really doesn’t matter that I have 200 watts driving these high sensitivity speakers, as long as the remote isn't sat on and quickly pumps up the volume to max. The amp has an output-limiting setting to prevent such a disaster, so it's set for -20 dB just to be safe.

 

[morricab]

It seems Roy Gregory read here and recently wrote about SET/Horn in his website :

https://gy8.eu/blog/think-piece/loudness-wars/

Is examples are NOT high sensitivity, so a lot of strawmen being set up in this poorly thought out article…

 

[microstrip]

Is examples are NOT high sensitivity, so a lot of strawmen being set up in this poorly thought out article…

In fact an extremely long and wordy article that manages to make a simple concept confusing and misleading.

 

[Hear Here]

Is examples are NOT high sensitivity, so a lot of strawmen being set up in this poorly thought out article…

Well, he did mention the Avantgarde Trio speaker with its 108 dB sensitivity on Page 5, but I guess you dozed off before reaching that paragraph.

I ploughed through hoping for an Avantgarde mention, but I'm sorry I bothered!

 

[LL21]

Well, he did mention the Avantgarde Trio speaker with its 108 dB sensitivity on Page 5, but I guess you dozed off before reaching that paragraph.

I ploughed through hoping for an Avantgarde mention, but I'm sorry I bothered!

Yes, I was actually looking for him to discuss his own experience/thoughts on highpowered amps with the AG Trio G3s. There are other owners who have apparently used higher powered amps with the AG Trios. I have heard them myself where the dealer used the simply massively high-powered Emm Labs MTRX monos (1500 watts per 8ohms??). I believe Jacob Heilbrun uses the Dartzeel 468 Ref Monos (475 watts/8ohms).

 

[bonzo75]

It seems Roy Gregory read here and recently wrote about SET/Horn in his website :

https://gy8.eu/blog/think-piece/loudness-wars/

Wow shows how much he doesn’t understand about the hobby. Not to mention the article is not about sets horns it starts with speaker manufacturers making misleading claims about sensitivity. All the best figuring out what it is about after that mostly drivel

 

[morricab]

Well, he did mention the Avantgarde Trio speaker with its 108 dB sensitivity on Page 5, but I guess you dozed off before reaching that paragraph.

I ploughed through hoping for an Avantgarde mention, but I'm sorry I bothered!

No, I saw it but he doesn’t say much , preferring to dwell on his strawman examples of Wilson and Peak Consult.

 

[tima]

No, I saw it but he doesn’t say much

But crikey he takes 5 pages to say it!

And Hemingway he's not. 24.8 words per sentence on page 1.