MSB Cascade compared to Wadax Studio

[Tuckia]

sir, your feelings hurt because someone doesn't share your taste?

You are reckless for self pleasure. I find that distasteful and counterproductive. But this has been your M.O. for a while. Most on WBF know this, however there is a larger audience that who don’t know the inside joke. How much NFB does it take to rid of this distortion.

 

[Kingrex]

Ps audio did the same hundred of hours to make one like there dacs.
how much is too much ? Lastly it’s a pci express audio card ! like many others we have used. Have anyone tried there old creative labs cards on a good headphone or dare say speakers. try it let me know how that goes.
one big thing to consider is jitter in totality
if the pci express card is inside the mainboard the entire system is connected to all the same devices inside
no usb cables , much less conversions taking place
so it does make sense.
now how does Msb and the rest of the godly dac makers feel lol well keep reading posts
I think taiko is smart to offer it

Are you saying the pci express card is a DAC?
Haven't tried that. But I wish I had a different interface from server to dac than USB.
Remember years ago when we were messing with computers and using PCM off the board to connect to the DAC. I got great sound for very little money. A gooe server was $3000. Now the digitql wagon is so so expensive. I observe. But my left, and right brain say no way.

 

[PLF]

I have owned several MSB DACs and even one of their amplifiers.

In my system, the Wadax Studio beat the MSB Select 2. I have now the later up for sale if any one is interested.

I am sure MSB Cascade is better than the Select 2, whether it is as good as the Wadax in my system, I do not know. I am sure I will have a chance in the future to hear the Cascade in my system and make my decision.

In the meantime, I am more intrigued to see what the Wadax external power unit and external clock can do. These are quite pricey and significantly raise the total Wadax cost I listened to them in Munich recently but I really need (and hope) to test them in my system.

Pedro

 

[Alrainbow]

Are you saying the pci express card is a DAC?
Haven't tried that. But I wish I had a different interface from server to dac than USB.
Remember years ago when we were messing with computers and using PCM off the board to connect to the DAC. I got great sound for very little money. A gooe server was $3000. Now the digitql wagon is so so expensive. I observe. But my left, and right brain say no way.

Yes a simple pci express card on the main board ,
PCIe Slots: Everything You Need to Know | HP® Tech Takes https://share.google/97OUwlfV8exRY1QDX
A simple explanation of it .
Some cards use PCI buss power , some use an additional power source . Like video cards do.
I would not buy a dac card that needs external power . It maybe better but now it's more complex .
Jitter is a made up term to fill the gap of many things.
Not just power supplies,
I think those who use a taiko dac card may have good results
The one thing is isolation from a PC to a dac
Wadax uses a dual optical method this if I'm correct is not just total electrical isolation. It's also a conversion of data and if done well
Aligns the packets timing and has no power needs externally.
Some external dacs don't need power just data
this is I think a better ideal but even in this method there is voltage that is data so jitter in various domains .
Power and timing .
The term daughter cards I think is a PCI express card and it can have a few data outputs
Aes
HDMI / i2s
Spidif and optical
HDMI was never for audio but it does have benefits , not electrical isolation though
A while back there was ideals about controlling the timing of data packets and how much data per packet .
No matter what we do there is conversions and they are math . The math can't be exact so things get changed .
Think having a sacd iso , you still need to convert to play . Well I'm sure as I have heard the methods used sound different.
Now jriver converts on the fly , still something but your iso is left unchanged.

 

[Narayan]

I’ve been running the analog dac card in the Olympus for over three months now. The first couple hundred hours of run in are not too good. 400 hrs is the minimum threshold to start listening to it seriously. There is steady improvement for the next couple months. This is my experience. Some can speculate all they want about user acclimation etc. I believe my experience over their unqualified speculation.

Engineering is the prostitution of science. Sort of a coarse digital of scientific analog. A degree is a piece of paper. Wipe your ass with it. Oh yeah, I’ve got one too. From a top 10 engineering university. It’s about the man and what he does. I’ve met plenty of dangerous dip-shits with degrees.

For you, I’d like to demonstrate F=MA from a distance of 24”.

Your last sentence is unacceptable, even if they go against yours and others beliefs, Caesar´s opinions / taste / experience should be able to be presented without the threat of violence, you also mention in your following post what does it take "to get rid of this distortion", well its pretty simple, there is an ignore button you can use if you hover your mouse over a member´s name, I suggest you do so to improve your experience here.

 

[Argonaut]

Your last sentence is unacceptable, even if they go against yours and others beliefs, Caesar´s opinions / taste / experience should be able to be presented without the threat of violence, you also mention in your following post what does it take "to get rid of this distortion", well its pretty simple, there is an ignore button you can use if you hover your mouse over a member´s name, I suggest you do so to improve your experience here.

Bravo …

 

[Tuckia]

Your last sentence is unacceptable, even if they go against yours and others beliefs, Caesar´s opinions / taste / experience should be able to be presented without the threat of violence, you also mention in your following post what does it take "to get rid of this distortion", well its pretty simple, there is an ignore button you can use if you hover your mouse over a member´s name, I suggest you do so to improve your experience here.

Caesar is a troll on a smear campaign filled with half-truths and derrogative innuendos. Clearly he has not done the research because his statements are incorrect. I find issue with this because I have followed this diligently for 5 years. I have lived through it. Taiko just happens to be the topic. Don't care about what he likes or dislikes. I certainly do care that he has an agenda of misrepresentation.

If you don't understand, do the research.

You miss the point. I care that this manipulative BS is broadcast to the masses.

 

[Alrainbow]

I get your point, but this forum is filled with agendas , and unrealistic ones to. Heavens appear with 2k fuse or 5k power cable .
If we are shoot at him well there is plenty of other targets .
Now back on topic is how far we get in a one box solution for a total ultra high end device. No matter how much anyone claims in these times wadax produced a product that stands alone for a fraction of it's compares
No two year waiting for products old before it arrives and this includes msb.
Why msb has no longer makes even a CD player streamer is a tragedy .
They have chosen to run behind others to use there products .
I owned there sacd , streamer back in the day took me two years to best it in building servers and streamers.
Wadax is smart at what they do in my world.
As for Caesar lol how many industry experts post here plenty.
The thread is about a fraction in cost gets you turn on your system and play music . No new updates of your already old products that promise other worldly experiences. I was on a never ending of new add on train .

 

[gleeds]

My understanding is it uses a 90's Delta Sigma design with window dressing. That would be fine at least if it sounded great. In my PERSONAL opinion - and as others have posted here as well - many feel the sound can be bettered. I've head Taiko quite a bit and had the ability for extensive comparisons.

I think all that would be fine if you at least were able to get it in a timely manner. If it takes a year +, then that is a LONG time in digital world and it's outdated.

If they claim you wait 1+ years and will get the "latest" design, how do you know you'll like how it sounds as you are buying it without hearing what it is?

Plus I've owned digital gear with software hiccups - no thank you. I don't want to wonder if I'll be able to listen to music when I turn my system on or if I'll be fighting with it to try and get sound. Been there, done that.

Again, these are just personal opinions and I know there are people who do like how they sound. The software bugs and year+ wait - and having to prepay -IMO are pretty big hurdles. If I wouldn't prepay for special production Audi and BMW's when I ordered them, I sure as heck wouldn't do it with a small time audio company.

Synaxis, I have watched your channel and appreciate the in-depth insights you offer there. I generally have no issue with your post and agree that the wait times are long, especially for a digital product, for the reasons mentioned.

That being said, I know Emile, and as a fellow lifelong entrepreneur, I admire his relentless determination to push the boundaries of digital playback. The path to success is not easily found in ultra-high-end audio manufacturing and development. It comes with significant risks, seven-day-a-week involvement, challenges in small-batch manufacturing, and numerous other impediments to success. This is not just unusual, it is customary in our industry. Emile and Taiko are pioneers, and I expect them to overcome their current challenges and continue to be valuable contributors to our industry.

Peace.

 

[Synaxis]

Synaxis, I have watched your channel and appreciate the in-depth insights you offer there. I generally have no issue with your post and agree that the wait times are long, especially for a digital product, for the reasons mentioned.

That being said, I know Emile, and as a fellow lifelong entrepreneur, I admire his relentless determination to push the boundaries of digital playback. The path to success is not easily found in ultra-high-end audio manufacturing and development. It comes with significant risks, seven-day-a-week involvement, challenges in small-batch manufacturing, and numerous other impediments to success. This is not just unusual, it is customary in our industry. Emile and Taiko are pioneers, and I expect them to overcome their current challenges and continue to be valuable contributors to our industry.

Peace.

Hello - thank you for your post.

This is nothing against Emile.

I can only go by what has been told to me from my viewers - repeatedly and often - from multiple Taiko customers.

Of course I want the best for Taiko as competition is what moves the entire industry forward.

Having said that it does not mean we need to turn a blind eye on what is going on around us. There are customers - who have reached out to me personally - who placed their orders in 2024 and still have not received their product. I also have experienced the software glitches on units as have others. And I *personally* would never pre-pay a small company - or any company - for an item that far out.

All just my personal opinions.

Again I wish nothing but the best for Taiko and all their customers.

Thanks for all you do in this industry, you are truly one of the good guys.

-Michael

 

[Elliot G.]

What’s next here at MSB vs Wadax?
Is Taiko going to have Sydney Sweeney come and say Taiko has great jeans?
This is like a never ending excuse/commercial
Sorry just my opinion but it’s what really ruins this Forum so much that nothing can be discussed without someone peeing in the pool to corrupt the discussion .

 

[thedudeabides]

You miss the point. I care that this manipulative BS is broadcast to the masses.

Why take it so personally? Happens all the time on WBF and other forums.

 

[Al M.]

Why take it so personally? Happens all the time on WBF and other forums.

Indeed. Opinions are like a*******. Everybody has one.

 

[wil]

Hello - thank you for your post.

This is nothing against Emile.

I can only go by what has been told to me from my viewers - repeatedly and often - from multiple Taiko customers.

Of course I want the best for Taiko as competition is what moves the entire industry forward.

Having said that it does not mean we need to turn a blind eye on what is going on around us. There are customers - who have reached out to me personally - who placed their orders in 2024 and still have not received their product. I also have experienced the software glitches on units as have others. And I *personally* would never pre-pay a small company - or any company - for an item that far out.

All just my personal opinions.

Again I wish nothing but the best for Taiko and all their customers.

Thanks for all you do in this industry, you are truly one of the good guys.

-Michael

Sorry to drag this out, but It’s important to be accurate— something that is all too rare in media today and is well illustrated on the thread.

For example:

1. The delays on the Olympus shipments are 100% due to chassis anodization delays from their multiple sources. They have had to reject boatloads of chassis due to superficial finish imperfections.

2. The “software issues” casually thrown about on this thread are not related to the Olympus, but to their development of XDMS which is a (highly successful btw) ongoing alpha/beta project for the Extreme server. During all this time Roon has functioned perfectly on the Extreme.

Lesson: don’t believe everything you read, especially on Internet forums, because it’s very likely the author failed to do any corroborating research before posting.

This is independent of troll postings which are a whole ‘nother toxic animal.

 

[Synaxis]

Sorry to drag this out, but It’s important to be accurate— something that is all too rare in media today and is well illustrated on the thread.

For example:

1. The delays on the Olympus shipments are 100% due to chassis anodization delays from their multiple sources. They have had to reject boatloads of chassis due to superficial finish imperfections.

2. The “software issues” casually thrown about on this thread are not related to the Olympus, but to their development of XDMS which is a (highly successful btw) ongoing alpha/beta project for the Extreme server. During all this time Roon has functioned perfectly on the Extreme.

Lesson: don’t believe everything you read, especially on Internet forums, because it’s very likely the author failed to do any corroborating research before posting.

This is independent of troll postings which are a whole ‘nother toxic animal.

Agreed - let's be accurate:

1) Funny you didn't mention delays due to the fire customers have been talking about that damaged units? Or was that a false excuse given to the customer?

2) Thank you for acknowledging there ARE delays where people are STILL WAITING from 2024 purchases. There is no excuse for that under any circumstances.

3) Thank you for acknowledging there are/were software issues. Not only was it frustrating to me, it was so bad a dealer stopped selling them.

4) Lesson: don't believe everything you read on forums by fan boi's who get triggered when facts that are outside the approved Taiko propaganda talking points are discussed. We've already had one Taiko supporter become completely unhinged and resort to threatening violence - sure does make you wonder why people are so over the top to shut down any honest discussion about Taiko.

All this unhinged reaction and threats of violence from the Taiko side makes you wonder what may be really going on? The more you guys try and shut down open and honest discussion, the worse it looks for Taiko.

 

[wil]

Agreed - let's be accurate:

1) Funny you didn't mention delays due to the fire customers have been talking about that damaged units? Or was that a false excuse given to the customer?

2) Thank you for acknowledging there ARE delays where people are STILL WAITING from 2024 purchases. There is no excuse for that under any circumstances.

3) Thank you for acknowledging there are/were software issues. Not only was it frustrating to me, it was so bad a dealer stopped selling them.

4) Lesson: don't believe everything you read on forums by fan boi's who get triggered when facts that are outside the approved Taiko propaganda talking points are discussed. We've already had one Taiko supporter become completely unhinged and resort to threatening violence - sure does make you wonder why people are so over the top to shut down any honest discussion about Taiko.

All this unhinged reaction and threats of violence from the Taiko side makes you wonder what may be really going on? The more you guys try and shut down open and honest discussion, the worse it looks for Taiko.

1. You make it sound like there is an avalanche of "damaged units." Perhaps someone at Taiko could answer any questions you might have about that? It's certainly new to me. At the least, this sounds like a hysterical exaggeration. Again accuracy over hyperbole is a good idea.

2. Of course there have been severe delays! That is well understood by everyone bothering to know. Did you read up for the reason for the delays? And, yes, in the real world there are actually excuses. If you are so interested in what's going on at Taiko, why don't you do a little
research. Give them a call -- ask direct questions instead of jumping to conclusions and then throwing it on the internet.

3. Here again, you are jumping to simply false conclusions. There are not "software issues." XDMS is Taiko's in house developmental playback software as an ALTERNATIVE OPTION to Roon. It works and the sound quality on the Extreme is much better than Roon. That is a good thing. It, as I said, is a alpha/beta project which, should be obvious, will have hiccups. I have personal experience with this software. It sounds great and was no problem for me. And, additionally, it has nothing to do with Olympus. Eventually, it may migrate to Olympus but in the meantime Roon works without a hitch on both Extreme and Olympus.

4. I didn't bother to translate that, so I wouldn't know, but of course that's out of line.

I'm not shutting down discussion. I'm spending (wasting) time at this keyboard correcting factual errors. I'm doing so because I know from personal experience (for years) what fine people work at Taiko and it burns me when they get dragged through the mud from grossly inaccurate statements.

I'm leaving this discussion now. It should go back to op subject, lol. Thank you for listening.

 

[Synaxis]

1. You make it sound like there is an avalanche of "damaged units." Perhaps someone at Taiko could answer any questions you might have about that? It's certainly new to me. At the least, this sounds like a hysterical exaggeration. Again accuracy over hyperbole is a good idea.

2. Of course there have been severe delays! That is well understood by everyone bothering to know. Did you read up for the reason for the delays? And, yes, in the real world there are actually excuses. If you are so interested in what's going on at Taiko, why don't you do a little
research. Give them a call -- ask direct questions instead of jumping to conclusions and then throwing it on the internet.

3. Here again, you are jumping to simply false conclusions. There are not "software issues." XDMS is Taiko's in house developmental playback software as an ALTERNATIVE OPTION to Roon. It works and the sound quality on the Extreme is much better than Roon. That is a good thing. It, as I said, is a alpha/beta project which, should be obvious, will have hiccups. I have personal experience with this software. It sounds great and was no problem for me. And, additionally, it has nothing to do with Olympus. Eventually, it may migrate to Olympus but in the meantime Roon works without a hitch on both Extreme and Olympus.

4. I didn't bother to translate that, so I wouldn't know, but of course that's out of line.

I'm not shutting down discussion. I'm spending (wasting) time at this keyboard correcting factual errors. I'm doing so because I know from personal experience (for years) what fine people work at Taiko and it burns me when they get dragged through the mud from grossly inaccurate statements.

I'm leaving this discussion now. It should go back to op subject, lol. Thank you for listening.

1) no - that is you being triggered and projecting;
FACT: units were damaged in a fire.
FACT: People have had orders since January 2024 and still haven't received them;

2) You have no idea who I have talked with yet you suggest I haven't. Talk about dishonesty and lies. I have done my research and talked with customers and dealers along with reading real world accounts;

3) False conclusions? A high end dealer completely dropped the line due to the software issues.

4) You are completely triggered and trying to shut down discussion. The fact you are so personally upended by this topic makes normal people wonder what's really going on. No normal person would be this triggered.

You can claim all you'd like you're not trying to shut down conversation but it's plain to all you are. It's like when someone says "I agree...but...."

The more you guys keep attacking people, the louder the drum beat about Taiko is going to get having the opposite effect of you trying to shut down discussion.

 

[Kingrex]

The thread is so derailed, maybe about time to drag Lampizator into it.

 

[Elliot G.]

WBF loves to come to the defense of its favorite sons and for unknown reasons can't accept the difference of opinions regarding such.
In my opinion where there is smoke there generally is fire. There is a who Forum and many threads directed towards Taiko and IMO these discussions and the commercials and testimonials should be expressed in that location. There seems to be overreaction to certain companies to defend them while others are fair game everywhere. What's up with that?

 

[Elliot G.]