MSB Cascade compared to Wadax Studio

[pk_LA]

I just saw a video on YouTube this am from a popular influencer/reviewer/seller on the MSB Cascade. I found it interesting in that he has both a Cascade and a Wadax Studio in his system. He described the Cascade as superior in all regards. He went on nudging Wadax to release the PSU and clock for the Studio. I will admit that I tend to watch this person's "reviews" with a bit of skepticism since I cannot help but wonder about various conflicts of interest. Has anyone here heard both under the same system? I would love to hear what differences they noted other than 'better'! I find catch-all statements less than helful.

 

[MattK]

I just saw a video on YouTube this am from a popular influencer/reviewer/seller on the MSB Cascade. I found it interesting in that he has both a Cascade and a Wadax Studio in his system. He described the Cascade as superior in all regards. He went on nudging Wadax to release the PSU and clock for the Studio. I will admit that I tend to watch this person's "reviews" with a bit of skepticism since I cannot help but wonder about various conflicts of interest. Has anyone here heard both under the same system? I would love to hear what differences they noted other than 'better'! I find catch-all statements less than helful.

I’ve heard both in the same system and own the Cascade. I agree with his assessments. The Cascade is better all around by a significant margin, detail, bass, analogness, micro-detail. Also true, the Wadax at $40k is best in class.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

that's like my my 20+ year unnamed friend who on a phone call two days ago described how he has the full stack Varese and Wadax Studio and found that there were trade-offs between the two. liked both for different reasons, maybe leaned toward the Varese objectively.. he also has two super uber tt's with similar contrasts. so has some high tip top level references.

his system is pretty mature and awesome.

a second hand data point maybe. but for sure interesting. the Wadax Studio seems to be a measuring stick. at $40k it does get lots of attention.

 

[pk_LA]

I am very much looking forward to hearing the Sentinel. It is my hope to listen to it A|B vs either the Select or the Horizon 360. I feel that I have a sense of the character of the Wadax Reference - it's wonderful! But, I am hopeful that the Sentinel is the new creme-de-le-creme!

 

[Elliot G.]

that's like my my 20+ year unnamed friend who on a phone call two days ago described how he has the full stack Varese and Wadax Studio and found that there were trade-offs between the two. liked both for different reasons, maybe leaned toward the Varese objectively.. he also has two super uber tt's with similar contrasts. so has some high tip top level references.

his system is pretty mature and awesome.

a second hand data point maybe. but for sure interesting. the Wadax Studio seems to be a measuring stick. at $40k it does get lots of attention.

So the 40 k dollar SP that does more than the things it was compared to and held its own with a Dac almost 3 times its price and to a Dac that is 6 times its price.
That’s incredible . Seems everyone is shooting for Wadax and wanting badly to
Beat it and yet not so much.
This site which craps when someone’s name is mentioned on one hand wants to quote him on the other
Hypocritical just a smidge lol
A Varese is almost a quarter of a million dollars more and wow it edges a 40,800 player . It should!
it’s not enough to say that other companies make good products but rather to feed one’s own ego that what they have is better of course since they own it
If your 95k dac sounds worse than one for 40 k that 95k item would be a total POS
But this is WBF where this absurd behavior must exist without any real definitive anything but one mannsurveys
Me for one totally tired of this

 

[godofwealth]

WBF reflects the nature of high end audio, where price is largely immaterial to folks with enough moolah to splash about on anything they fancy. It might be in some ways comparatively sane, compared to the bling that represents the fashion industry. Take the insane publicity about the Birkin handbags for women. There's a product that has so much hype around it that it is surreal. For one, spending mere money, even lots of it, doesn't guarantee you a Birkin. The first ever Birkin bag that was designed just sold at auction for 7 million pounds. This is after all just a handbag.

Jane Birkin's original Hermès bag sells for £7m at Sotheby's auction

The prototype of the most famous bag in fashion, made for Jane Birkin in 1985, smashes auction records.

www.bbc.com

Nothing yet approaches this level of insanity in high end audio.

 

[Elliot G.]

WBF reflects the nature of high end audio, where price is largely immaterial to folks with enough moolah to splash about on anything they fancy. It might be in some ways comparatively sane, compared to the bling that represents the fashion industry. Take the insane publicity about the Birkin handbags for women. There's a product that has so much hype around it that it is surreal. For one, spending mere money, even lots of it, doesn't guarantee you a Birkin. The first ever Birkin bag that was designed just sold at auction for 7 million pounds. This is after all just a handbag.

Jane Birkin's original Hermès bag sells for £7m at Sotheby's auction

The prototype of the most famous bag in fashion, made for Jane Birkin in 1985, smashes auction records.

www.bbc.com

Nothing yet approaches this level of insanity in high end audio.

Totally disagree this analogy holds no water. These status bags, watches, cars have ego and seriously limited availability based entirely on insane pricing for the stays hungry rich.
Audio does none of that. Walk down Rodeo drive carrying your Wadax lmao

 

[Tripoint Audio]

I have extensive experience with Wadax Reference DAC and Wadax Studio. I was fortunate enough to spend 4 days in a row listening to the Wadax Studio player mostly on cd playback as for in streaming mode it didn’t move me. The system consisted of Riviera Labs electronics, Gobel speakers, Kronos turntable,
Gobel cables, Tripoint Grounding, Kronos isolation stands, Isotek AC conditioner, room treated, also active bass traps. Very well executed room for Munich standards and being able to evaluate.
Wadax Studio provided great tempo, stage dimensionaly, dynamics, no added false low end energy, timing in this system was flawless. I noticed many attendees in this room were tapping their feet. Transients where a highlight in this system.
Only caveat Wadax Studio from a voicing perspective requires critical system matching and your foundation better be flawless. Riviera Labs are considered warm side of neutral, even the Riviera Labs tube magic could not tame the slight dryness in its midrange portrayal. Took some RevOpod footers, grounding experimentation, AC power cable re configuration to enrich the midrange. Once all calibrated properly this was my favorite source in that room.

I had the pleasure to visit Jay Audio Lab a week ago to listen to the MSB Cascade with latest software upgrade vs Wadax Studio. This system consisted of Solution 3 series integrated new series, Tad Reference 2 way speakers on their own stand. Not sure about all the cables in the system, but speaker wires where Jorma Statement. Jays Audio Lab room acoustics where excellent and the smallest changes are very highlighted through the Tad.
All listening test were conducted using streaming.
In this particular system configuration the Wadax got outclassed by the MSB Cascade dac. The complete neutrality of the Solution integrated with its bandwith capabilities in conjunction with the TAD reference 2 way monitor was mot the most musical combination. The Studio sounded dry , flat, and mechanical compared to the Cascade. Keep in mind I never liked the old MSB dacs, as I found them never to be able to reproduce the overtone harmonics in piano upper key registers. Well I guess MSB did their homework and figured out their shortcomings. The MSB Cascade is another beast all together. I can go own with all the audiophile adjectives. Yes, fluidity, micro/macro dynamics, soundfield expansion etc.. The most impressive aspect about the Cascade was a non mechanical feeling to the instruments, and voices that communicated a deeper emotional involvement. The feeling of listening to music and less reproduce sound. This is the highest compliment I can bestow on a piece of gear. Combine this musicality with added image density, and more spaciousness between the instruments and this outclasses the Wadax Studio. Wadax Studio is going to need more fire power compete. I also was able to demo for Jay my new Tripoint Emperor signal filter on the Cascade, male XLR version. Lets put it this way, as good as the Cascade performed, the musicians sounded in slow motion without this filter. No end to this crazy hobby.

 

[MattK]

So the 40 k dollar SP that does more than the things it was compared to and held its own with a Dac almost 3 times its price and to a Dac that is 6 times its price.
That’s incredible . Seems everyone is shooting for Wadax and wanting badly to
Beat it and yet not so much.
This site which craps when someone’s name is mentioned on one hand wants to quote him on the other
Hypocritical just a smidge lol
A Varese is almost a quarter of a million dollars more and wow it edges a 40,800 player . It should!
it’s not enough to say that other companies make good products but rather to feed one’s own ego that what they have is better of course since they own it
If your 95k dac sounds worse than one for 40 k that 95k item would be a total POS
But this is WBF where this absurd behavior must exist without any real definitive anything but one mannsurveys
Me for one totally tired of this

It seems you may be finding implications that weren’t actually made. The Wadax sits at the top of its price class—$40k—and for many is the benchmark. No debate there. You’d certainly be aware of that, given your role importing them.

That said, neither anyone in this thread, nor Jay (whom I don’t know personally, nor can I speak to why he provokes such strong reactions on WBF), made any claim to the contrary. His review simply stated that the Cascade was the best DAC he’s heard—there was no suggestion that the Studio Player “held its own” in direct comparison.

Of course, preference in audio is subjective. But for most of us, those preferences aren’t reinforced by a financial stake in the outcome. Between ego and income, I think it’s fairly clear which has the stronger gravitational pull.

 

[Elliot G.]

It seems you may be finding implications that weren’t actually made. The Wadax sits at the top of its price class—$40k—and for many is the benchmark. No debate there. You’d certainly be aware of that, given your role importing them.

That said, neither anyone in this thread, nor Jay (whom I don’t know personally, nor can I speak to why he provokes such strong reactions on WBF), made any claim to the contrary. His review simply stated that the Cascade was the best DAC he’s heard—there was no suggestion that the Studio Player “held its own” in direct comparison.

Of course, preference in audio is subjective. But for most of us, those preferences aren’t reinforced by a financial stake in the outcome. Between ego and income, I think it’s fairly clear which has the stronger gravitational pull.

And you own a Cascade so you of course are totally non biased and not financially influenced
By the way I know Jay very well and I know what we discussed privately
btw I do not import Wadax

 

[MattK]

And you own a Cascade so you of course are totally non biased and not financially influenced
By the way I know Jay very well and I know what we discussed privately

I do indeed own the Cascade. I listened to all of them. Bought what I liked. When I like something more than what I have I’ll buy that. Not sure what my financial incentive is? This is a cost center for me.

If I had to find one, I guess my only financial incentive in this for me, if I convince myself there’s nothing better than what I have now, I can buy more wine.

If Jay was convicted in what he said to you privately, why didn’t he say it publicly. Clearly you’re close, he was at your open house. Now you’re putting his legitimacy in question. Tell you one thing, tell his viewers something else? You have a great shop by the way. Nice to bring the watches and the audio together. Similar clients I’d assume.

 

[Elliot G.]

Look he and you can like or dislike whatever you like.
One these items are not comparable , they are not the same thing but it’s good for clicks.
Jay is banned here except for when someone wants to quote him for their benefit sort of hypocritical as far as I am concerned .
I have no issues with the Cascade or Varese or the 375 dollar MSB but they are not a Studio Player as they are a different product aimed at different clients

Thank you about the store, it’s coming along and the opening was a lot of fun.
Got to go Jays calling me now

 

[Ron Resnick]

WBF reflects the nature of high end audio, where price is largely immaterial . . .

I often suggest to people here that price is only slightly positively correlated with sound quality.

 

[MattK]

I often suggest to people here that price is only slightly positively correlated with sound quality.

Absolutely. Reaching 95% is a worthy goal. The last 5% is either the quest for perfection—or a fool’s errand. It’s that final inch of most journeys that proves the most complex, personal and costly.

For some of us, it’s simply about having something that stirs the senses. That’s the beauty of this hobby—countless different journeys, each leading to places that bring their own kind of joy.

 

[treitz3]

This is what it should all be about. The end result....that last 5%....or less.

Tom

 

[Tripoint Audio]

Sometimes there is no percentage that can be used to grade a particular component. Some positive attributes cannot be measured by numbers. This was the case with my assessment of the MSB Cascade.

 

[Elliot G.]

Anyone that thinks that price of the item is largely immaterial has never worked in the Audio Industry. In over 50 years doing this I have NEVER had someone tell me the price is immaterial just give me whatever ...
Never happened and I can easily say that if it does it is very very rare. I would bet a lot of money that if you asked every single member on this site if price matters that almost every single one would say it does and the ones that didn't would be telling lies.
It certainly is not the characteristic of anyone that is called an audiophile.

 

[Elliot G.]

This is what it should all be about. The end result....that last 5%....or less.

Tom

IMO the last 30 percent or more comes from expertise, experience, the ability to select and set up the gear , the room and the placement within the room. This has far more to do with the result than the extra thousands of price.

 

[Elliot G.]

Sometimes there is no percentage that can be used to grade a particular component. Some positive attributes cannot be measured by numbers. This was the case with my assessment of the MSB Cascade.

so how would you do that with your product that is over 5- 10 times the price of the competition?

 

[Synaxis]

IMO the last 30 percent or more comes from expertise, experience, the ability to select and set up the gear , the room and the placement within the room. This has far more to do with the result than the extra thousands of price.

I agree with you that proper set up of gear - especially placement of speakers so they work within the room - is a huge % of getting the most out of a system.