Aries Cerat Protos - class A TriodeFET integrated amplifier in a compact case (can face a 2 Ohm load)

[VoicesInMyHead]

What is exactly the input impedance of the Protos? (not the "usual" 47K or 50K Ohms?). I don't see it mentioned on the Protos spec sheet.
What is the sonic consequence of having to low a ratio between input Ω amp / output Ω source ? (it has never been the case in my system, so I don't know).
As we have: input Ω amp = N * output Ω source, how much is it advised for N ? (50? 100? More?)

Regarding bias setting, @VoicesInMyHead, you said "I set it to 20 per recommendation from the manual":
"20": where is that figure displayed by the Potos? On the front display? (I don't see any digital display inside the Protos, as far as I can see on various pictures).

Display - Is it possible to completely switch off the front display?

the practical consequence for me was that not all phono stages I tried or were looking at had high enough output to match Protos, meaning I had to more or less max out the volume. but as I wrote in the other thread my decision was to build my system around Protos, everything else was interchangeable. no regrets regarding this. everything sounds better than before Protos.

bias as already mentioned is displayed on the front, but more subtle than input and volume. this cannot be turned off, while input and volume can.

the front and display is very simple and I love it! especially that I can turn off the volume and input. I was following a discussion a local manufacturer had about his new front panel and digital display with touch controls and soo much icons and information all over the place. simply not for me, I love this back to basics and pure minimalistic approach of Aries Cerat. I also love the remote control, it's one of the best I've had. both of these can seem trivial, but it affects how you're living with your amplifier every day and my relation to my Protos is still in the fluffy cloud phase.

if you're thinking about buying a Protos, let me put it this way. would I recommend it to others? hell yeah!! is it for everyone? maybe not. it always depends what you're looking for and a ton of different aspects. For example I have no doubt that separate pre and amp is likely better and not to mention monoblocks, but for me a great integrated is the way, I prefer to have a minimal system in the living room, this way I can listen to more music than if I had a dedicated room somewhere, and I'm also super happy to just be on this level, even if it is only the entry level of Aries Cerat.

it would be fantastic nice to have a Hermés phono stage and a Heléne DAC to go all-in on Aries Cerat, but I currently have no place to put them, so it's not really worth even thinking about at this point.

 

[Argonaut]

the practical consequence for me was that not all phono stages I tried or were looking at had high enough output to match Protos, meaning I had to more or less max out the volume. but as I wrote in the other thread my decision was to build my system around Protos, everything else was interchangeable. no regrets regarding this. everything sounds better than before Protos.

bias as already mentioned is displayed on the front, but more subtle than input and volume. this cannot be turned off, while input and volume can.

the front and display is very simple and I love it! especially that I can turn off the volume and input. I was following a discussion a local manufacturer had about his new front panel and digital display with touch controls and soo much icons and information all over the place. simply not for me, I love this back to basics and pure minimalistic approach of Aries Cerat. I also love the remote control, it's one of the best I've had. both of these can seem trivial, but it affects how you're living with your amplifier every day and my relation to my Protos is still in the fluffy cloud phase.

it would be fantastic nice to have a Hermés phono stage and a Heléne DAC to go all-in on Aries Cerat, but I currently have no place to put them, so it's not really worth even thinking about at this point.

Are you sure that you couldn’t just nudge your Aspidistra along enough to squeeze a Hermés in alongside your Protos ?

 

[Synaxis]

the practical consequence for me was that not all phono stages I tried or were looking at had high enough output to match Protos, meaning I had to more or less max out the volume. but as I wrote in the other thread my decision was to build my system around Protos, everything else was interchangeable. no regrets regarding this. everything sounds better than before Protos.

bias as already mentioned is displayed on the front, but more subtle than input and volume. this cannot be turned off, while input and volume can.

the front and display is very simple and I love it! especially that I can turn off the volume and input. I was following a discussion a local manufacturer had about his new front panel and digital display with touch controls and soo much icons and information all over the place. simply not for me, I love this back to basics and pure minimalistic approach of Aries Cerat. I also love the remote control, it's one of the best I've had. both of these can seem trivial, but it affects how you're living with your amplifier every day and my relation to my Protos is still in the fluffy cloud phase.

if you're thinking about buying a Protos, let me put it this way. would I recommend it to others? hell yeah!! is it for everyone? maybe not. it always depends what you're looking for and a ton of different aspects. For example I have no doubt that separate pre and amp is likely better and not to mention monoblocks, but for me a great integrated is the way, I prefer to have a minimal system in the living room, this way I can listen to more music than if I had a dedicated room somewhere, and I'm also super happy to just be on this level, even if it is only the entry level of Aries Cerat.

it would be fantastic nice to have a Hermés phono stage and a Heléne DAC to go all-in on Aries Cerat, but I currently have no place to put them, so it's not really worth even thinking about at this point.

That's a great photo!

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

Are you sure that you couldn’t just nudge your Aspidistra along enough to squeeze a Hermés in alongside your Protos ?

maybe... I guess I'll have to try once the local reseller has it for demo... @Perfect sense Audio

 

[Argonaut]

maybe... I guess I'll have to try once the local reseller has it for demo... @Perfect sense Audio

Heh … makes sense entirely

 

[morricab]

Heh … makes sense entirely

A Hermes sounds very tempting....

 

[ailasrozgue]

Hi guys, newbie here on wbf, but been lurking for awhile.
I am absolutely intrigued by the protos and Aries Cerat as a brand in general.
There's almost a mystical element to their products and Stavros just seems like such a genuine guy from all the interviews I've watched and him taking the time to respond to his customers directly even on forums when he must be insanely busy.

I am already set on having the Protos be my next big jump upgrade for my integrated amp but there just seems to be almost no information on the product I can find from end users except for this thread.
And no show rooms to my knowledge that carries it near me.

@VoicesInMyHead it's been a few more weeks/months now and I am hoping your protos is settling in nicely!
I hate to keep nagging for updates but...if you don't mind letting us know your current updated feelings with the protos, I would appreciate it so much!
Are you still in that "honeymoon" phase?
Anything cool or new you've discovered with the amp as it's breaking in?
Any tube updates?

-Best,
A

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

There's almost a mystical element to their products

[please forgive my poor English]

I see what you mean. Initially, I was not attracted by the gear's aesthetics, to say the least. But as time went by, I got quite accustomed to it, and I even can say that I like it now (while I could never have been accustomed to "spaceship ethos" made of chrome and blue LEDs for instance).
And the rationalist in me did not totally liked the logo either (or the almost mystical element that some could associate with the brand).

Actually, apart from the logo, everything here is skilled engineering and applied physics (well, actually, even the logo is laser-cut on the top, and laser-printed on the face)

Eight years ago, when I discovered the brand, I wondered why such big and heavy cases? Because each tube has its own power supply, with its own transformer, and a choke. 3 tubes in my Incito preamplifier, therefore 3 power supplies plus choke and transformers, only for the tubes. Result: 34Kg, compact case. I had to reinforce my piece of furniture with appropriate planks. The new 15w Quindecim power amplifier has 4 tubes, therefore 4 transformers for the tubes, plus the other ones. Result: 75Kg in a compact case of only 50cm width (!) Idem for the Protos, 65Kg, compact case (all these slip into a "standard", sturdy, hifi rack).​

Since AC seems very reluctant to compromise on quality, all these power supplies take space and weight a lot...​

It took me a while to accept that and overcome my initial prejudices against tubes in general, and especially against AC (big and heavy, the aesthetics was not my taste, built in Cyprus which is an island so what about the transport in case a gear goes out of order, etc - you get the picture)​

And it turned out that my AC tube preamplifier is actually the most stable and reliable audio component I have ever owned. They seem to be built like tanks. Moreover, each importer has a competent technical service in case of an issue (or sends the gear back in Cyprus, if necessary)​

​

Everything has a raison d'être in their design. And the rationalist in me likes that.
As for the music, the music lover in me is very happy.

 

[ailasrozgue]

@orfeo_monteverdi your english is as good as it gets.
And I see the overall point of your post, that Aries Cerat is a company that does NOT allow compromises in quality to their products thus their products are all solid and extremely heavy/well built which I don't think people will realize until seeing them in person.
However regarding aesthetics, I do think that's a personal matter of taste and subjective.

I personally think their gears are absolutely beautiful in appearance and unique. To be completely honest, it was what caught my attention to the brand in the first place before I jumped in the rabbit hole and realized that they are so much more than just their aesthetics.

It's incredibly unique in appearance which makes it stand out compared to all the usual same looking gears we see all the time regardless of price.
Coupled with the build quality which is absolutely top notch, it adds a touch of refinement to an otherwise tank-like rugged product.

It's got all three - uniqueness in appearance, top tier build quality, and a feeling of a solid tank-like product that will last for many years to come.
That's why you can spot an aries cerat component from a mile away.

 

[ailasrozgue]

Quick question to @morricab, @VoicesInMyHead , how hot does the protos run?
Can you feel it's heat radiating in your listening room/environment?

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

Hi guys, newbie here on wbf, but been lurking for awhile.
I am absolutely intrigued by the protos and Aries Cerat as a brand in general.
There's almost a mystical element to their products and Stavros just seems like such a genuine guy from all the interviews I've watched and him taking the time to respond to his customers directly even on forums when he must be insanely busy.

I am already set on having the Protos be my next big jump upgrade for my integrated amp but there just seems to be almost no information on the product I can find from end users except for this thread.
And no show rooms to my knowledge that carries it near me.

@VoicesInMyHead it's been a few more weeks/months now and I am hoping your protos is settling in nicely!
I hate to keep nagging for updates but...if you don't mind letting us know your current updated feelings with the protos, I would appreciate it so much!
Are you still in that "honeymoon" phase?
Anything cool or new you've discovered with the amp as it's breaking in?
Any tube updates?

-Best,
A

Hi there,

I understand from reading your comments that you have already decided on Protos and I can only gratulate you to an excellent choice. I'm sure you will love your Protos just as much as I love mine. Honeymoon period might be over, but I still walk by it every day as I wake up and feel all happy and warm every time I see it and I can't wait to turn it on for the day. I still believe this relationship will have a bright future for many years to come.

The only other option that I would even consider is to go with separates, Incito S and Quindecim makes a lovely couple as presented together with Heléne in Munich, but it's a bit more pricey and there will be two heavy boxes instead of one with everything that means. I'm an integrated guy myself though, I'm happy enough with Protos. I'm not complaining.

There's different things that ticks our boxes and makes us feel the way we do for different products or brands, I can feel resemblance to what you described above, it was only when I actually started to dig deeper and doing my homework about Aries Cerat and Protos that I got hooked on it. Then it helped even more to actually listen to it, and then everything fell into place, so yeah, you will not be disappointed! It sounds lovely. The only thing "bothering" me is what I've said before that I have to turn off the display every day, but I guess I can live with it. It's a very small problem to have.

I'm still using the E280F tubes, and to be honest I don't think it can sound bad with any tube, it's more a matter of tuning preferences, what might work better for you or the matching with the rest of your system.

It runs a bit warm, but not too bad, and not something I can feel having a difference in the room. I've seen worse. My cats thinks the temperature is just perfect (unfortunately).

 

[morricab]

Quick question to @morricab, @VoicesInMyHead , how hot does the protos run?
Can you feel it's heat radiating in your listening room/environment?

Hi , the sides get fairly warm but not what I would call really hot. The Genus I had before ran much hotter.

 

[ailasrozgue]

Hi there,

I understand from reading your comments that you have already decided on Protos and I can only gratulate you to an excellent choice. I'm sure you will love your Protos just as much as I love mine. Honeymoon period might be over, but I still walk by it every day as I wake up and feel all happy and warm every time I see it and I can't wait to turn it on for the day. I still believe this relationship will have a bright future for many years to come.

The only other option that I would even consider is to go with separates, Incito S and Quindecim makes a lovely couple as presented together with Heléne in Munich, but it's a bit more pricey and there will be two heavy boxes instead of one with everything that means. I'm an integrated guy myself though, I'm happy enough with Protos. I'm not complaining.

There's different things that ticks our boxes and makes us feel the way we do for different products or brands, I can feel resemblance to what you described above, it was only when I actually started to dig deeper and doing my homework about Aries Cerat and Protos that I got hooked on it. Then it helped even more to actually listen to it, and then everything fell into place, so yeah, you will not be disappointed! It sounds lovely. The only thing "bothering" me is what I've said before that I have to turn off the display every day, but I guess I can live with it. It's a very small problem to have.

I'm still using the E280F tubes, and to be honest I don't think it can sound bad with any tube, it's more a matter of tuning preferences, what might work better for you or the matching with the rest of your system.

It runs a bit warm, but not too bad, and not something I can feel having a difference in the room. I've seen worse. My cats thinks the temperature is just perfect (unfortunately).

Thank you so much for the response and @morricab thank you for your insight as well.

Continuing on with the discussion - @VoicesInMyHead why would you consider maybe going with the all aries cerat entry separates as opposed to the integrated Protos? What advantages do you think it might reveal?
One of the main attribute that got me interested in the Protos in the first place was that it uses the single stage/TriodeFet technology which is extremely innovative and rare in the world of audio electronics. I know @orfeo_monteverdi mentioned this already but I was hoping to get some more insight of the tonal and sonic characteristics of TriodeFet, if it does indeed have it's own unique characteristic or does it just allow the music to be more transparent?

That technology is definitely what got me interested in Protos so I am hoping to hear what advantages it might actually give from end users.

Also I recall both you and morricab stating that there are some issues when pairing protos with a phono stage due to low impedance.
But if one was just planning to use the protos with a streamer or digital files, would impedance still pose an issue at all?

Like you, I also want to build my system around the Protos + a Helene DAC but I am only planning to stream music with it 99% of the time.

Cheers

 

[morricab]

Thank you so much for the response and @morricab thank you for your insight as well.

Continuing on with the discussion - @VoicesInMyHead why would you consider maybe going with the all aries cerat entry separates as opposed to the integrated Protos? What advantages do you think it might reveal?
One of the main attribute that got me interested in the Protos in the first place was that it uses the single stage/TriodeFet technology which is extremely innovative and rare in the world of audio electronics. I know @orfeo_monteverdi mentioned this already but I was hoping to get some more insight of the tonal and sonic characteristics of TriodeFet, if it does indeed have it's own unique characteristic or does it just allow the music to be more transparent?

That technology is definitely what got me interested in Protos so I am hoping to hear what advantages it might actually give from end users.

Also I recall both you and morricab stating that there are some issues when pairing protos with a phono stage due to low impedance.
But if one was just planning to use the protos with a streamer or digital files, would impedance still pose an issue at all?

Like you, I also want to build my system around the Protos + a Helene DAC but I am only planning to stream music with it 99% of the time.

Cheers

Matching with Helene should work perfectly as AC sources have very low output impedance and high output, getting maximum performance from the Protos.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

Continuing on with the discussion - @VoicesInMyHead why would you consider maybe going with the all aries cerat entry separates as opposed to the integrated Protos? What advantages do you think it might reveal?

I believe no matter how you look at it that integrated is a compromise of two things, similar to a Hybrid car where the engine is not as powerful as a regular car or the battery capacity is not near the range of an all electric car. surely there are some advantages like shorter circuit paths etc, but I believe you still have to cut something out. but to me, that compromise is well enough when it comes to amplifiers. one box, less cables, less money, less space needed etc. Integrated is my way to go for now, maybe in the future I could think differently if I had more space etc, but I doubt it.

One of the main attribute that got me interested in the Protos in the first place was that it uses the single stage/TriodeFet technology which is extremely innovative and rare in the world of audio electronics. I know @orfeo_monteverdi mentioned this already but I was hoping to get some more insight of the tonal and sonic characteristics of TriodeFet, if it does indeed have it's own unique characteristic or does it just allow the music to be more transparent?

then Protos is your choice! I'm the wrong person to answer this as I'm not so interested in technology or how things actually work, I leave that to people who knows how to build amplifiers. I only care about how it sounds in my home and I can't say that it sounds a certain way because of this or that. I like what I'm hearing and wouldn't want to exchange it for anything else. does it sound better in my system than any other amplifier I've had? I think so, and that's again good enough for me. is there even better sounding amplifiers? most likely. this is still Aries Cerat entry level whatever that means. does it sound or feel "entry level" in any way? heck no!

Also I recall both you and morricab stating that there are some issues when pairing protos with a phono stage due to low impedance.
But if one was just planning to use the protos with a streamer or digital files, would impedance still pose an issue at all?

probably not, as already mentioned Heléne is a perfect match, just like a Hermes phono stage would be. trying to mix and match in the wild can always be a challenge.

As much as you've read up on Protos I think you have a pretty good idea about what you're buying and I don't think you will be disappointed. If you don't have the possibility to listen or try before buying I understand it's difficult to make a decision though, buying blind is never easy. It's after all still quite a lot of money. I always try to listen at home before buying, Protos was an exception, I really didn't feel the need after hearing it at my local retailer. I can only share my feelings about it and I think you can tell that I like it a lot. I have zero regrets. I would buy it again without hesitation. It's easily my favourite component in my system, of all time.

 

[morricab]

I believe no matter how you look at it that integrated is a compromise of two things, similar to a Hybrid car where the engine is not as powerful as a regular car or the battery capacity is not near the range of an all electric car. surely there are some advantages like shorter circuit paths etc, but I believe you still have to cut something out. but to me, that compromise is well enough when it comes to amplifiers. one box, less cables, less money, less space needed etc. Integrated is my way to go for now, maybe in the future I could think differently if I had more space etc, but I doubt it.



then Protos is your choice! I'm the wrong person to answer this as I'm not so interested in technology or how things actually work, I leave that to people who knows how to build amplifiers. I only care about how it sounds in my home and I can't say that it sounds a certain way because of this or that. I like what I'm hearing and wouldn't want to exchange it for anything else. does it sound better in my system than any other amplifier I've had? I think so, and that's again good enough for me. is there even better sounding amplifiers? most likely. this is still Aries Cerat entry level whatever that means. does it sound or feel "entry level" in any way? heck no!



probably not, as already mentioned Heléne is a perfect match, just like a Hermes phono stage would be. trying to mix and match in the wild can always be a challenge.

As much as you've read up on Protos I think you have a pretty good idea about what you're buying and I don't think you will be disappointed. If you don't have the possibility to listen or try before buying I understand it's difficult to make a decision though, buying blind is never easy. It's after all still quite a lot of money. I always try to listen at home before buying, Protos was an exception, I really didn't feel the need after hearing it at my local retailer. I can only share my feelings about it and I think you can tell that I like it a lot. I have zero regrets. I would buy it again without hesitation. It's easily my favourite component in my system, of all time.

I think this is one of those rare cases where the integrated is not a compromise. A power amp version would be the same amp just minus the input selection and volume control.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

I think this is one of those rare cases where the integrated is not a compromise. A power amp version would be the same amp just minus the input selection and volume control.

you're probably right, but what about the volume control and preamp part?

"The volume control is implemented by R2R relay-switched resistor array, instead of the complex (TVC) multitap input transformer used in our bigger models."

to me this sounds like some kind of trade-off was made?

don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to bash the Protos (everyone knows that I love it just the way it is!), I'm just saying that for example Incito would likely get you an even "better" volume control?

 

[morricab]

you're probably right, but what about the volume control and preamp part?

"The volume control is implemented by R2R relay-switched resistor array, instead of the complex (TVC) multitap input transformer used in our bigger models."

to me this sounds like some kind of trade-off was made?

don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to bash the Protos (everyone knows that I love it just the way it is!), I'm just saying that for example Incito would likely get you an even "better" volume control?

There is no preamp part...there is just a single stage. The volume control is the same as used on the normal Incito preamp, Genus and Diana integrated. Incito S uses a TVC but normal Incito not. Incito works very well with Protos if you don't have AC sources...if you do then it is an unnecessary addition.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

There is no preamp part...there is just a single stage. The volume control is the same as used on the normal Incito preamp, Genus and Diana integrated. Incito S uses a TVC but normal Incito not. Incito works very well with Protos if you don't have AC sources...if you do then it is an unnecessary addition.

Alright! So then it really feels like one of those rare exceptions just as you said, making Protos an even better choice! Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[ailasrozgue]

Hi @morricab , when you say AC sources are you referring to Aries Cerat DACs?
To my knowledge they don't currently produce any streamers or music servers/transports correct?

@VoicesInMyHead everytime you respond, it just makes me want to get the protos more and ASAP!
I think this will also be the first amplifier I might make the exception to not hearing first before purchasing.
Anyways I'm sure it's already going to be a big step up from my current amplifier..

Two more questions regarding the protos I am curious about.
From Aries Cerat's website and some of the earliest videos I've seen of protos on youtube, it's cased in a see through top cover that lets you see the wonderful internals of the chassis. But I also see some of them now have solid metallic top covers.
I'm curious if your guys' protos have see through top covers or fully metal? I personally think the see through aesthetic makes it even cooler.

And second, what type of cables are you guys using with Protos? Any recommendations?

Cheers,