Sad news. MBL has filed for insolvency.

[Elliot G.]

Elliot G, like I said I am sure not every importer / distributor are sharks and most I guess are reasonable, but the ones that import Spectral into Europe are sharks.

My numbers do work as far as I know, but not knowing the actual price they get them from Spectral.

Whatever price Spectral sells them to the US distributor for will be the same price they sell them to the European distributor.

Here I am only guessing, in the US DMC 30SV S2 is $24K so at a guess both the US and EU distributor would get each unit for say $8k - $10K. With everyone taking their cut, it get’s to the US retailers for $24K and everyone makes a profit. So how does it get to the European retailers for over $42K, someone is laughing all the way to the bank and it’s not the customer.

What you are describing sounds a bit like gouging to me as well. If the unit sells for 24 k US. The distributor is most likely buying at US dealer Cost or maybe slightly less. He does have shipping and duties/tarriffs and expenses but to get to 42k sounds to me as a bit too much as well.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You think oil is a low expense / high margin business? Interesting.

per unit, yes. spread out over billions of units. lots of distribution and refinery costs too, spread out over billions of units. and it scales amazingly well. the more scale the less expense per unit. 25% net to gross is obscene. it comes from extreme margins somewhere......and volume.

big oil is very motivated to protect itself.

in the Auto Business the only saving grace is high individual transaction costs and volume. and profitable service and parts departments. sales gross margins are razor thin (3% to 5%.......up to10% at lower volume with unique premium brands such as Porsche) most times. most dealers have 1.5-2% net to sales. the best ones do 6%. their all department total sales are $50m-$200m per year. so it can be profitable but most they process high dollars for minimal margins with huge investments. for some the only long term benefit is R.E appreciation. although since COVID/remote work and lower commercial property values that has tanked somewhat.

putting the capital into investments these days can outperform the retail car business. of course more risk to a degree.

 

[Synaxis]

per unit, yes. spread out over billions of units. lots of distribution and refinery costs too, spread out over billions of units. and it scales amazingly well. the more scale the less expense per unit. 25% net to gross is obscene. it comes from extreme margins somewhere......and volume.

big oil is very motivated to protect itself.

in the Auto Business the only saving grace is high individual transaction costs and volume. and profitable service and parts departments. sales gross margins are razor thin (3% to 5%.......up to10% at lower volume with unique premium brands such as Porsche) most times. most dealers have 1.5-2% net to sales. the best ones do 6%. their all department total sales are $50m-$200m per year. so it can be profitable but most they process high dollars for minimal margins with huge investments. for some the only long term benefit is R.E appreciation. although since COVID/remote work and lower commercial property values that has tanked somewhat.

putting the capital into investments these days can outperform the retail car business. of course more risk to a degree.

Interesting. When I read the actual financials and business filings of the oil companies they put out and they detail the facts of costs they seem to tell a different story.

But I guess it's not the internet unless someone is rallying against big evil oil "protecting itself" and getting incorrect info from A.I. to repost.

 

[Rt66indierock]

The one thing about these threads on ARC, Dartzeel and now MBL is this is just speculation and personal feelings about an industry sans any realistic information or facts.
Companies fail for various reason but the most common is they run out of operating capital which can be caused for a myriad of reasons.
I’ve read this and sadly I haven’t seen a single fact, financial statement or any thing that has any real
Meaning.
I have no idea what happened or whether this company will survive we will all find out. I don’t want to see any company fail but these discussions truly don’t accomplish anything.

Seems a bit hypocritical when industry and hobby insiders do this all the time. Your objection is just another example of insiders trying to control the narrative.

 

[sbo6]

I would add the question: did it have too many employees / too much overhead for the reality of the revenues? Fifty employees seems like way, way too many people for any company in our industry except, possibly, the largest and most successful.

I doubt that even Wilson Audio has 50 employees.

I believe the biggest high - end speaker company is B&W with 500+ employees.

 

[Lee]

I believe the biggest high - end speaker company is B&W with 500+ employees.

Do they really have 500 employees?

 

[Lagonda]

Do they really have 500 employees?

And are they really a high end speaker company ?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Do they really have 500 employees?

but they have a mid fi big box home entertainment product and distribution model. even though they make and sell many excellent high end speakers.

so a different and broader marketplace scale from most high end brands.

 

[Lee]

And are they really a high end speaker company ?

Lol.

 

[Elliot G.]

Seems a bit hypocritical when industry and hobby insiders do this all the time. Your objection is just another example of insiders trying to control the narrative.

Control what am I controlling ?
I have no dog in any of these fights but the amount of making up scenarios by those with no information that’s helpful?
Enjoy!

 

[thedudeabides]

Oh My, I sent a dealer a check for a new MBL C41 product five day ago. I could be out a lot of money. It’s hard to imagine the dealer was not aware of it three days ago when he replied to me about my order. ago. Stereophile announced this last month?

Cashed yet? If not, place a "stop payment". Dealer non notification. Integrity in short supply these days.

 

[thedudeabides]

I’m curious who sells direct ? Now

Joseph Audio moving in that direction. Many small volume cable manufacturers. If you offer the customer a money back option and get a minimal number of returns, what's the downside?

 

[sbo6]

And are they really a high end speaker company ?

High - end snobbery at its best.

 

[sbo6]

Do they really have 500 employees?

Check out this tool called Google, amazing what you can find. https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/103944-70

And btw, without pioneers like John Bowers, there'd likely be no Dave Wilson, how's that for high - end? ;-)

 

[alexkane84]

While I can see that the future will be tough for some, it is kind of hard to have a high end audio segment with products that are in the hundreds of dollars to a handful of thousands.

Same with any other high end industry. High end gear, whether it be watches, audio, yachts, art or cars will always have uber priced items.

Tom

Agreed. Reportedly, audiophiles now start around their mid- to late 40s based on YouTube analytics of audiophile videos. It makes sense in that most younger people aren't going to have hundreds of thousands of dollars in disposable income. The same appears to be true at classical music concerts, the audiences are majority, older generations. I think we can all pitch in by introducing the hobby to younger generations. For instance, my father made it a point to have weekly listening sessions in his library with me as an elementary school kid, listening to Tchaikovsky and Beethoven on JBL 4425s and a Mcintosh stack . It took me decades later to be able to afford something similar, but it always stayed with me, and bought myself Sonus Faber speakers and a Mcintosh stack the first chance I got.

 

[Synaxis]

Agreed. Reportedly, audiophiles now start around their mid- to late 40s based on YouTube analytics of audiophile videos.

Agreed. Looking at my analytics on my FB and YT channel it's a pretty steep cut off below 34 years old in terms of viewership.

There is typically a younger age in Europe viewing though than my North America views by about 7 years.

Regardless of location my global women views are always under 2%.

It is topic dependent though. When focused on headphones and such the average viewer age is much lower than let's say $50K speakers.

 

[Synaxis]

I have no dog in any of these fights but the amount of making up scenarios by those with no information that’s helpful?

Truth. The ACTUAL issue has yet been to be listed by any of the guesses posted on page after page here.

Rightfully so the people who know the FACTUAL ISSUE are not telling many people while they try and work through this.

 

[Elliot G.]

Do they really have 500 employees?

Its possible they make a large variety of products. I think 10 years ago it was probable today I just am not sure.

 

[DasguteOhr]

but they have a mid fi big box home entertainment product and distribution model. even though they make and sell many excellent high end speakers.

so a different and broader marketplace scale from most high end brands.

And they don't cheat with their sensitivity ratings. For example, the first 800 Matrix didn't have 93 dB, but significantly more. Runs well with 25 watts.
For me the best speaker they ever made.

 

[microstrip]

And they don't cheat with their sensitivity ratings. For example, the first 800 Matrix didn't have 93 dB, but significantly more. Runs well with 25 watts.
For me the best speaker they ever made.
View attachment 153268View attachment 153269

Long, very long ago I listened to a pair of these Matrix 800 in our local distributor show room. I was impressed by the easiness and large soundstage - we could not feel the enormous speakers. Nothing comparable to what I was used to listen with the 801/802 matrix speakers I have owned - it was much better sounding. Uncolored, surely not an ESL 63, but different from the typical box speakers of that time.