Best Speakers Money Can Buy?

[TooCool4]

My most recent acquisitions as a grizzled old audio veteran with a much larger budget -- was my first horn loudspeakers -- the Klipsch La Scala

I know people go on about the Klipsch sound, I heard the Klipsch La Scala this year at Munich High-End show. I could not wait to leave the room, in fact I left the room after about 30 seconds, the speakers hurt my ears. Yes, yes I know a show environment is not the best place to listen to anything, but you can usually get an idea if what you hear is worth pursuing. Once is enough for this speaker.

 

[chuck]

You need to "work your way up the ladder", because you don't know yet what you like.

If any audio salesman said that to me I would run out of the store and never return, and did. The OP knows what he likes -- classical music. I bought the best classical music speakers I could afford. I wasn't going to climb any damn ladder. My evaluation music was Beethoven's 9th.

 

[Holmz]

If any audio salesman said that to me I would run out of the store and never return, and did. The OP knows what he likes -- classical music. I bought the best classical music speakers I could afford. I wasn't going to climb any damn ladder. My evaluation music was Beethoven's 9th.

And a good salesman would prop his eyelids open like the scene from “A Clockwork Orange”

 

[AudioNew]

headphones/earphones are their own world. Since you don't have sufficient space now, you might want to think about listening to a few headphone setups. Since that isn't my thing, I cannot suggest where to start. However, as others have said, second hand components are one possible purchasing choice once you have heard a few setups. These folks do a good job of testing second hand gear before selling it: https://tmraudio.com/personal-audio/ You can see a selection of headphone amps and headphones.

There are, of course, forums dedicated to headphone setups. Not sure which is best. Here is one: https://www.head-fi.org/forums/

Thank you for the source for second-hand gear! It's reassuring that those folks test them before they sell, since working condition has been my main trepidation about them.

I am actually familiar with head-fi, since I used to dabble in headphones for a bit because they were a bit less intimidating to get into than speakers. I think it's a good forum, thank you for the recommendation!

 

[AudioNew]

here is some data: https://speakerchoices.com/

Thank you for the resource!

 

[AudioNew]

You're just not going to be able to learn without listening. It's an experiential hobby, there's no objectively best solution that works for everyone. We've all got ears that are sensitive to different weaknesses and brains that enjoy different strengths. And we like different types of music that differentially are affected by both.

The proposition of moving from a Bluetooth speaker to an all-out-assault system is akin to only having driven a go-kart and then buying a McLaren or something.

There's no similarity except they both drive. And you'll probably just wreck the new car the second you touch the gas. Or accidently put basic gas and oil in it and ruin the engine.

Similarly, without the experience of listening and setting up a stereo system on your own, hearing how much the little things change, you're going to end up with a very expensive thing that isn't really working as designed. And maybe isn't even the type of system you'll enjoy.

To go back to the car analogy, if you don't know anything about cars except that they drive, you could easily buy something very fast that's designed only for straight line speed, when what you'd really enjoy more - based on your still undeveloped driving style - is something designed to be incredibly agile. How could you know when you've got no frame of reference?

After moving to a new house I've been working on getting my system setup properly -- without buying a single new component -- for a year and a half. And I'm still extracting more from it every time I make a change -- to the room, the component location, the component supports, the speaker angle, subwoofer locations, subwoofer digital correction, etc, etc, etc.

It's fascinating that you're extracting more from the same components by fine tuning the setup! At this point I probably wouldn't be able to do that even if I had good components on hand. I think I'll have to learn more about the underlying theory as well. I asked about speakers in the opening question because they're where the sound comes out, and didn't really know what the other components (amplifiers, preamplifiers etc.) do.

 

[AudioNew]

Welcome to WBF!

Thank you!

 

[AudioNew]

Best value in loudspeakers for the money , eliminate new ..! Look at SOTA type older loudspeakers play around there , allows you to get some experience on where and what works for you before diving in ..

Thank you for the advice! That sounds sensible, since things become used the moment I buy them. Is SOTA type a specific genre of speakers? When I google SOTA it seems to stand for State of The Art, and many of them remind me of JBL L52 speakers.

 

[AudioNew]

There are only descriptions offered at that site. Here's one with test results:
https://www.spinorama.org/

That website looks very useful! Thank you for letting me know of it.

 

[AudioNew]

Only a novice or a troll would ask such an open ended question that has no answer.

I want to assure you that I'm of the former category, but I don't seem to be doing a good job of it. When I wrote the question I knew it was reductive, but I didn't know that it so obviously had no answer or vague candidates.

 

[treitz3]

It's fascinating that you're extracting more from the same components by fine tuning the setup! At this point I probably wouldn't be able to do that even if I had good components on hand. I think I'll have to learn more about the underlying theory as well. I asked about speakers in the opening question because they're where the sound comes out, and didn't really know what the other components (amplifiers, preamplifiers etc.) do.

Speakers may be where the sound comes out, but that is only part of the equation. An important one, mind you, but upstream gear and the synergy between the components can make or break that pair of speakers.

It can mean the difference between musical wallpaper and a blasė dynamic range and utter distortion/noise that messes up everything, to a 3-D soundscape that has proper depth, height and width.....to a system that makes the speakers disappear altogether, where music just flows like liquid dancing in front of you.

Many folks enjoy this aspect but there is much more. The upstream gear can make the same set of speakers do SO much more. As in, not only the speakers disappearing, but seemingly the room and room reflections as well. Neither seem to be a part of the equation. Same speakers. Different upstream gear.

Now, getting there takes luck, planning, research, testing with YOUR OWN ears, and experimentation. There is much more than just that. It takes time. It takes experience. It takes humility and self awareness and realizing actual reality (not bias) when a change makes things worse. It's a learning process....and it comes with a cost.

What cost you are willing to pay to achieve your own personal goal is up to you. But please don't ever underestimate the vast importance of upstream gear. They can literally make or break a set of your own personal top tier speakers.

Tom

 

[WillBthr]

Light years away from anything coming close...to even being pretty good.

 

[thedudeabides]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I guess what I am really curious about is how people get into high-end audio,

After a visit to their psychiatrist.

in how they even begin to know the kind of setup is to their tastes, since the end result seems to depend on so many variables.

It does and it is a dynamic learning process. Many people change their entire system several times while in the hobby. Reason. The more they know, the more their biases and preferences evolve. Start simple. A streaming integrated amp and some speakers you think you like after listening and comparing to other products. Best advice. Goto an audio show or two. Familiarize yourself with the available options. Audition gear at home if at all posible with money back return options. Most importantly enjoy the journey and have fun. FWIW, there is no universal best. It boils down to subjective opinion and your budget. And the only one that matters is yours.

 

[PYP]

It's fascinating that you're extracting more from the same components by fine tuning the setup! At this point I probably wouldn't be able to do that even if I had good components on hand. I think I'll have to learn more about the underlying theory as well. I asked about speakers in the opening question because they're where the sound comes out, and didn't really know what the other components (amplifiers, preamplifiers etc.) do.

if you hear speakers you like, be sure to make a note of the amplifier used. The amp/speaker relationship is a key one.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Only a novice or a troll would ask such an open ended question that has no answer.

Let's welcome and support novices.

 

[Kingrex]

It does and it is a dynamic learning process. Many people change their entire system several times while in the hobby. Reason. The more they know, the more their biases and preferences evolve.

Interesting. Sort of the crux of why we all have such strong opinions on SS vs Tube. Planer vs Dynamic vs Horn. Maybe the learned behavior and inate preference to a type of sound is more important than what the gear actually can do

 

[Holmz]

…

It does and it is a dynamic learning process. Many people change their entire system several times while in the hobby. Reason. The more they know, the more their biases and preferences evolve.

Ok many might, and other may stick largely with a system that doesn’t need constant upgrades.

Start simple. A streaming integrated amp and some speakers you think you like after listening and comparing to other products.

Good advice.

Best advice. Goto an audio show or two. Familiarize yourself with the available options. Audition gear at home if at all posible with money back return options. Most importantly enjoy the journey and have fun.

Better advice.

FWIW, there is no universal best. It boils down to subjective opinion and your budget. And the only one that matters is yours.

100%

 

[Charles S]

This might turn out to be the longest thread on WBF in years

 

[GSOphile]

AudioNew, as you get into this hobby, in addition to listening to a variety of systems, I strongly recommend you acquire a copy of "Get Better Sound" by Jim Smith. You will learn a lot from this book, and it will serve as a handy reference.

 

[AudioNew]

I was once an audiophile "novice" who had no clue what good sound meant, and made all the classic newbie mistakes. So, if you are new to high end audio, you'll need time to process the huge variety of loudspeakers available (new or used) at any price point you can imagine. You'll need time and patience to get yourself educated, not to mention a reasonable bank balance.

I began as a graduate student in the early 1980s with a pair of Mission speakers from the UK, because I foolishly believed in somebody's glowing review. It turned out to be a speaker that had a rising top end (many "audiophile" speakers do, so you need to be careful to see if you like that sort of "hot" sound). When I listened to my Missions over a period of a year or so with FM radio -- we are of course talking about 40 years ago, when there was no streaming, and FM radio was free and I lived in a university campus with an excellent FM radio station -- I found the speakers too bright sounding on a lot of material. As luck would have it, my PhD advisor decided to move midway through my degree to a new university, and I moved with him. I found a local audio dealer that was selling the Spendor SP1, another British speaker designed according to BBC standards, which meant incredibly good tonal accuracy, and very flat response. It was a revelation and I quickly traded my Missions for the Spendors, and never looked back..

The SP1 was so good that even today, I have in my house a later version, the SP1/2E, that is one of Robert Greene's, a well-known TAS reviewer, favorites. Within its dynamic limitations (8" cone woofer, with a separate midrange and tweeter), it's hard to think of another loudspeaker that can beat it within the design specs. That is, it is a dynamic cone loudspeaker that is small enough to be lifted easily (35 pounds or so), placed in a small room if necessary, and can be listened up close. There are audiophile giants, of course, but compared to the SP 1/2E, I find most horribly colored tonally. If you can't get the midrange right, all else is useless. I don't care how much bass a loudspeaker has or how loudly you can play it. Can you play a recording of a violin, a flute, a piano, or a soloist, and have it sound "natural", like in a concert hall. The SP1 family of loudspeakers passes that test, which most modern audiophile loudspeakers fail at still. There are more modern variants, like the Harbeth loudspeakers. I own also the Harbeth Monitor 40.1. It's much bulkier, and not as svelte as the SP1. Still, the Monitor 40.1 is less colored than the SP1.

My next major discovery was when I got my first job after graduation, and discovered at another local dealer in Hudson Valley, NY, the Quad ESL-63 electrostatic. That to me was a huge revelation to hear a loudspeaker that simply doesn't exist in the conventional sense of loudspeakers. Almost any loudspeaker has a coloration that gives it away. Even if you play it soft, you can hear it out and never confuse it with the real thing. The Quad 63 was the first loudspeaker that disappeared as a loudspeaker -- when you play a guitar or a piano, it creates the eerie sensation of the real thing that comes largely from the clever design that Peter Walker took 20 years to get right. I still own two versions of the Quad 63, the 2805 and the 2905. The original ESL 57 is not as clever a design, but it has a warmer sound that many find enticing.

My most recent acquisitions as a grizzled old audio veteran with a much larger budget -- working in AI in the San Francisco Bay Area does help with that! -- was my first horn loudspeakers -- the Klipsch La Scala -- and the largest electrostatic loudspeaker ever made, the Soundlab G9-7c that has 9 foot panels that are 3.5 feet wide. Now, we are getting into audiophile "silly money" territory, and both require a larger room, and care with the electronics driving them. I would not buy either of these as a novice, even if you had the money. You need to "work your way up the ladder", because you don't know yet what you like.

Think of it like trying to find the best restaurant to eat in. Should you eat at one of the fancy Michelin three-star restaurants in San Francisco? That would be silly, even if you could afford a $1000 dinner (not including the wine!). You might not like the food. It's best to start cheap, sample the inexpensive restaurants of different varieties -- French, Japanese, Indian, Italian etc. --- to see the kind of food you like to eat. You start to develop a bit of appreciation for food, and you can then work your way up the ladder in restaurants as well.


Good luck!

Thank you for taking the time to share your journey in such great detail, and advice on how to move forward! I really appreciate it.