Hopkins' System

[Alrainbow]

Thanks That is an impressive list!

I was using Etymotic IEM's, which I loved, but started using BT earbuds after the cables on my Etymotic broke (wires in the jack or tip becoming loose) for a third time this year...

I purchased relatively cheap models - Sony WF-C510, which are OK, but nowhere close to the Etymotic.

I will check out Head-Fi.

The new Sony flagship is a really good iem
Not crazy cost does multipoint . There app has some great features too. Eq but much more. Has atmos stuff.
Our music is so complex to even know what it is.
Analog seems to the frontier left alone lucky for us

 

[Alrainbow]

there are some excellent iems wired truly extraordinary in sound to me
Multi drivers seemed to be the way on buds
No single driver wired buds achieve what multi drivers do.
looking at your cross over have you ever tried isolating the chokes each other and away from caps ?
Curious your thoughts would be helpful

 

[hopkins]

there are some excellent iems wired truly extraordinary in sound to me
Multi drivers seemed to be the way on buds
No single driver wired buds achieve what multi drivers do.
looking at your cross over have you ever tried isolating the chokes each other and away from caps ?
Curious your thoughts would be helpful

Thanks again for the iem recommendations. I will look into all this.

Concerning the crossover, I don't have much space to work with. The two inductors are pretty far apart. I was under the impression that proximity of the caps to the inductors was not an issue...

 

[Alrainbow]

I’m not saying it can be heard but theory shows it can be.
one thing the chokes are air coil so less emf /EMI imisions

 

[D.Duttilleux]

I finished putting the crossover inside the speaker and rewiring the woofers of one of the speakers. I also installed better speaker terminals.

View attachment 151209

Some Bill Charlap to finish off the evening:

Good xo components pay off, but the cost of those Mundorf MCAP Supreme EVO Oil SEO caps probably approaches the price of the Ultima 40

Despite all the 'buzz' around Munich and the opportunity to listen to a complete Audio Note Level 5 setup - including an Ongaku, I've been completely absorbed in the technology of ECD for the past 2 weeks and that's partly your fault

It took many hours to understand the technological principles - linked back to digital (audio) technology and science.

While studying all sorts of ideas popped up for a simple but high-quality loudspeaker system that does justice to the (unmistakable and unique) qualities of the SX and utilizes the output to the max.

 

[matthias]

While studying all sorts of ideas popped up for a simple but high-quality loudspeaker system that does justice to the (unmistakable and unique) qualities of the SX and utilizes the output to the max.

Yes, many times I thought about how the SX would sound with the speakers in the Silbatone room in Munich

 

[hopkins]

Yes, many times I thought about how the SX would sound with the speakers in the Silbatone room in Munich

Probably better than with my Teufel speakers

 

[Argonaut]

Good xo components pay off, but the cost of those Mundorf MCAP Supreme EVO Oil SEO caps probably approaches the price of the Ultima 40

Components rolling in crossovers , A whole world of Self Flagellation ! … but can make an appreciable improvement in fidelity over factory fitted Inductors, capacitors and resistors .

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Yes, many times I thought about how the SX would sound with the speakers in the Silbatone room in Munich

Probably still (very) good, although the impedance of these early Western Electric systems is quite high (16 Ohm nominal).

The SX is basically a linear (voltage/power) converter and you have to throw most, if not all, of the 'traditional audio amplifier principles' overboard. There's no load dependency, but the highest 'efficiency' (~ most effective power conversion) is achieved with a low Re (impedance) in combination with high sensitivity. Therefore, some aspects of the SX <> speaker interface are counterintuitive, but in my opinion that's (a.o.) exactly where the ingenuity resides.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Components rolling in crossovers , A whole world of Self Flagellation ! … but can make an appreciable improvement in fidelity over factory fitted Inductors, capacitors and resistors .

A tweeter cap can make a big difference. As for an optimized loudspeaker system for the SX I'm contemplating a 'very late HP', which would even make a Duelund JDM Pure Copper Foil a 'cheap' option.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Thanks again for the iem recommendations. I will look into all this.

Concerning the crossover, I don't have much space to work with. The two inductors are pretty far apart. I was under the impression that proximity of the caps to the inductors was not an issue...

Place one coil upright and the other coil flat, allowing them to be mounted very closely together. No problems with magnetic interference. Regarding capacitors in the high range: if you have a slightly lower SPL from the tweeter in the frequency response between 2-6 kHz, Mundorfs work very well, bringing more life and detail to the sound. It's tweeter very linear in that range then I'd advise against Mundorf and instead go for Audyn Copper or Rike cap. My tip.

S-CAP 4 • Rike Audio (2)

Papier-Polypropylen-Aluminium-Öl Kondensatoren. Kapazitäten von 0,01μF bis 22μF

rikeaudio.de

It's always a question of how much you want to invest.

 

[hopkins]

Place one coil upright and the other coil flat, allowing them to be mounted very closely together. No problems with magnetic interference. Regarding capacitors in the high range: if you have a slightly lower SPL from the tweeter in the frequency response between 2-6 kHz, Mundorfs work very well, bringing more life and detail to the sound. It's tweeter very linear in that range then I'd advise against Mundorf and instead go for Audyn Copper or Rike cap. My tip.

S-CAP 4 • Rike Audio (2)

Papier-Polypropylen-Aluminium-Öl Kondensatoren. Kapazitäten von 0,01μF bis 22μF

rikeaudio.de

It's always a question of how much you want to invest.

Thanks for the tips. I will change the position of one of the coils. Regarding the capacitors, I don't think it makes too much sense investing given the limitations of the Teufel drivers. I'm happy with the results, at this stage. With better speakers, it would make more sense to go for a "cost no object" crossover...

 

[DasguteOhr]

A tweeter cap can make a big difference. As for an optimized loudspeaker system for the SX I'm contemplating a 'very late HP', which would even make a Duelund JDM Pure Copper Foil a 'cheap' option.

Dueland's capacitors sound great, but I'm bothered by the size of their cases. Taking them apart is disappointing. I don't think they're not the only manufacturers who do this.
Most of them is epoxy housing and real cap is small.

 

[microstrip]

Dueland's capacitors sound great, but I'm bothered by the size of their cases. Taking them apart is disappointing. I don't think they're not the only manufacturers who do this.
Most of them is epoxy housing and real cap is small.


View attachment 151388View attachment 151389View attachment 151390

We have seen it some time ago

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/duelund-silver-foil-capacitor-autopsy.413704/

The diyaudio.com forum is a great source of information. They (and some other forums, BTW) often show interesting pictures of the inside of gear and comments on build quality and specifications.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Dueland's capacitors sound great, but I'm bothered by the size of their cases. Taking them apart is disappointing. I don't think they're not the only manufacturers who do this.
Most of them is epoxy housing and real cap is small.


View attachment 151388View attachment 151389View attachment 151390

I'm tempted to try this:

 

[morricab]

Dueland's capacitors sound great, but I'm bothered by the size of their cases. Taking them apart is disappointing. I don't think they're not the only manufacturers who do this.
Most of them is epoxy housing and real cap is small.


View attachment 151388View attachment 151389View attachment 151390

the damping could be quite important to the sound...

 

[hopkins]

Despite all the 'buzz' around Munich and the opportunity to listen to a complete Audio Note Level 5 setup - including an Ongaku, I've been completely absorbed in the technology of ECD for the past 2 weeks and that's partly your fault

It took many hours to understand the technological principles - linked back to digital (audio) technology and science.

While studying all sorts of ideas popped up for a simple but high-quality loudspeaker system that does justice to the (unmistakable and unique) qualities of the SX and utilizes the output to the max.

While I don't claim to understand all the intricacies of the design , I think I grasp the essentials -it took me a while as well! I love the fact that it is so simple (in its design and operation), and I will never go back to separate components (dac, preamp, amp, and associated cables) - well, if something for roughly the same price (4k€) were to be shown to be significantly better, maybe...I'm not holding my breath...

It would be cool if they offered an analog input with a good quality build in ADC (which would feed into the digital processor- DAPI - they have in the SX). The ability to toggle between digital and analog input would make my life a little easier and simplify further my system, but I don't listen to vinyl every day - not a big deal.

 

[DasguteOhr]

the damping could be quite important to the sound...

That's right. Some loudspeaker manufacturers coat their crossovers with epoxy to prevent coils and capacitors from vibrating. This definitely has a positive effect on the sound.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

While I don't claim to understand all the intricacies of the design , I think I grasp the essentials -it took me a while as well! I love the fact that it is so simple (in its design and operation), and I will never go back to separate components (dac, preamp, amp, and associated cables) - well, if something for roughly the same price (4k€) were to be shown to be significantly better, maybe...I'm not holding my breath...

It would be cool if they offered an analog input with a good quality build in ADC (which would feed into the digital processor- DAPI - they have in the SX). The ability to toggle between digital and analog input would make my life a little easier and simplify further my system, but I don't listen to vinyl every day - not a big deal.

Your wish is of course completely legitimate, but incompatible with the brothers' philosophy.

Their extremist approach to audio, by focusing solely on digital sources and taking digital to analog conversion as a focal point constitutes - in my opinion - nothing less than a paradigm shift in audio.
This approach leaves no room for compromised solutions to meet the needs of people who use both digital and analogue sources, such as amplifiers from Devialet and Technics.

And it is precisely this fundamentalism that I applaud. Unlike (non-quantum) digital (audio) technology, analog audio is inherently chaotic.
In order to minimize chaos, ECD's approach is the purest as far as I know.
Their pursuit of signal integrity is unique and the result of a decades-long quest that began with the exploration of the Philips TDA chips to the core.

Even my brother, an Audio Note adept and connaisseur - who has worked with the brand, sees and acknowledges the 'promise' of their approach.
Admittedly, the view of the SX's interior initially evoked all kinds of prejudices and skepticism, but as he gained insight into the technology, his interest was aroused.

Last year around this time I spent about 3 months studying class D amplification.
To this end, I ploughed through countless scientific publications, to come to the conclusion that Class D can never match the pure signal transfer of, for example, a high-quality, stripped to max, triode amplifier.
Yes, class D can produce acceptable results and I'm thinking of AGD and Ralph's mono blocks, but the incoming signal is ALWAYS MODULATED, then pumped to the outputs using several band aid tricks.

The purest (PCM) conversion requires a multibit approach. DSD is an alternative, but for all sorts of reasons cumbersome (think of the required storage capacity). Besides, 24/96 audio is more than sufficient to match analogue sources.
The bottlenecks are mainly in the music industry, not in the available technology.

Perfection (in audio) does not exist, otherwise there would be no raison d'être for forums like this and shows such as Munich High-End.

Audio and the electro-mechano-acoustical (EMA) analogy can serve as a metaphor for EVERYTHING.
Somewhere in the long thread on diyaudio, John Brown refers to a Shaolin master throwing a needle through a glass plate.
That post illustrates a deeper (and higher) level understanding of 'existence'.
I like use the term 'translucency' to describe that state of being.

 

[hopkins]

Your wish is of course completely legitimate, but incompatible with the brothers' philosophy.

Their extremist approach to audio, by focusing solely on digital sources and taking digital to analog conversion as a focal point constitutes - in my opinion - nothing less than a paradigm shift in audio.
This approach leaves no room for compromised solutions to meet the needs of people who use both digital and analogue sources, such as amplifiers from Devialet and Technics.

And it is precisely this fundamentalism that I applaud. Unlike (non-quantum) digital (audio) technology, analog audio is inherently chaotic.
In order to minimize chaos, ECD's approach is the purest as far as I know.
Their pursuit of signal integrity is unique and the result of a decades-long quest that began with the exploration of the Philips TDA chips to the core.

Even my brother, an Audio Note adept and connaisseur - who has worked with the brand, sees and acknowledges the 'promise' of their approach.
Admittedly, the view of the SX's interior initially evoked all kinds of prejudices and skepticism, but as he gained insight into the technology, his interest was aroused.

Last year around this time I spent about 3 months studying class D amplification.
To this end, I ploughed through countless scientific publications, to come to the conclusion that Class D can never match the pure signal transfer of, for example, a high-quality, stripped to max, triode amplifier.
Yes, class D can produce acceptable results and I'm thinking of AGD and Ralph's mono blocks, but the incoming signal is ALWAYS MODULATED, then pumped to the outputs using several band aid tricks.

The purest (PCM) conversion requires a multibit approach. DSD is an alternative, but for all sorts of reasons cumbersome (think of the required storage capacity). Besides, 24/96 audio is more than sufficient to match analogue sources.
The bottlenecks are mainly in the music industry, not in the available technology.

Perfection (in audio) does not exist, otherwise there would be no raison d'être for forums like this and shows such as Munich High-End.

Audio and the electro-mechano-acoustical (EMA) analogy can serve as a metaphor for EVERYTHING.
Somewhere in the long thread on diyaudio, John Brown refers to a Shaolin master throwing a needle through a glass plate.
That post illustrates a deeper (and higher) level understanding of 'existence'.
I like use the term 'translucency' to describe that state of being.

I hear you, but in this case, adding an input which produces an electroTos signal with a commuter between two inputs is not compromising the design and philosophy. I actually mentioned this to them and they told me that a company distributing a lot of analog sources had suggested something similar and they had looked into it but it fell through. I am sure ECD could build a good ADC...

The digital input is of course key to the design.