Best question in this thread for a VERY long time
!Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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marathon preparation or iron man?
Nothing has changed. I have been posting about the improvement in resolution over the Jadis ever since I got the Italians.
I'm still hearing that bit of edginess/brightness. But even with that bit of edginess and brightness -- which I'm still hoping goes away naturally from burn in or remedially from the Zobel network idea* -- I like the improvement in believability.
*I ordered a pair of resistors and a couple of pairs of capacitors. I'm very skeptical about Ralph's hypothesis that only a 1 or 2dB rise in amplitude is causing the edge/brightness, but it's worth a try.
Good question. Without a trainer I waste a huge amount of time watching the cannibal documentaries in between sets.
Having owned and currently owning amps with 6C33c output tubes, I can say that I have not had any more issues with them than other tube amps. I have also owned OTL monos (Silvaweld) that sounded amazing but heated my room unbearably.
When you heat the cathodes in parallel, the heating current is over 60 amps for both monos... it just gets hot in the room. I didn't have any failures with the 6c33c either, but selecting them so that they maintain a stable quiescent current is more difficult.
Andro once punched his trainer because the trainer told him to do sets
Yes, I had the same monos! Kept tripping my circuit breaker on startup…that was also quite annoying.
I hate to say it, but what are you doing with power? I was absolutely shocked when I changed a duplex from Hubbell to Furutech and tossed the Ching Cheng cables. I don't like tin wire. The stuff you used is fine stranded tin coated wire. Its such an unknown.
You really should take a piece of Romex and lay it on your floor feom the panel to amp. Terminate in a plastic Outdoor box. The heavy gray ones. Use a Furutech gold duplex. Use a copper power cord wirh gold or bare copper ends. Not tin or Rhodium at this time. Let it settle for 50 hours. You may be surprised.
If you want to say too much trouble, then you may never find the answer and may chase amps, preamps and other equipment never knowing the issue was unrelated to that equipment.
You should also try a filter. You should try a Torus RM20. You should try a Shunyata Everest. Plug only your amps into it.
My stereo was rhin using a hubbell and ching cheng. Its absolutely, totally changed going to a Furutech Rhodium duplex with a 14 awg copper power cord with gold ends.
Do not use Rhodium with any brass contacts. It won't work. Rhodium to Rhodium, or, Rhodium to Gold.
Or gold to copper. Just try and remove anything brass.
And Caig Deoxit G100 or GN5S every connection from the wire to panel, wire to duplex, duplex tines and cord ends.
FWIW: I usually do not bet against Ralph.
If the amp is unstable and going into oscillation, and having IMD… then a Zobel network is a dandy solution.
Many people can hear 1/4 to 1/2 a dB, so 1-2 dB would be readily apparent even to people than don’t care a damn and who don’t think that sound matters. For people that listen to stuff, it would stick out, as the Australian say, “like dog’s balls.”
What is the basis for your hypothesis that the amp is unstable and oscillating into a 4.0 to 4.8 ohm resistive ribbon driver load out of its 4 ohm tap? In other words, why would this be?
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Your previous post to this, the one with the exercise comment, made it as if you just heard something that made you select the master sound over the Jadis.
After so many days, this should happen if
1. Burn in
2. You changed something in the set up to make the MS sound better
3. If same set up and not due to 1, You heard something today that was there before but you had missed hearing before
4. You just accepted it today
Why would an amp go into oscillation on a ribbon speaker? Ribbons behave the closest to a pure resistor of any loudspeaker type. Clarisys even uses low order crossovers, so the reactance in the crossover also should not be very bad. An electrostatic speaker is entirely different…it is highly reactive (basically a big capacitor) and can drive marginally stable amps nuts.
I haven’t seen the graphs of the impedance of the speaker.
Feel free to post it.
But I have also not seen many graphs that go up into the hundreds or kHz.
But let’s just ignore the ribbon for the moment.
One can have an amp connect to a speaker and everything is just dandy.
Then they can change only the speaker cable, and that same amp and speaker now goes into oscillation.
So there is more to what is happening than solely the presence of a ribbon.
I think I mentioned before that Don and Ralph are amongst other “Subject Matter Experts” (SMEs) in this stuff.
I am not going to pretend, but I am at least a bit aware.
Something about capacitance, or maybe inductance of the system in the MHz or kHz range causing poles to move outside of the unity circle if you speak “Bode plots”.
(I think it is when one gets a high capacitance?)
I can identify a Bode plot, but I am just not a EE.
The fact that this can happen with just changing speaker cables - and the fact that one can see it clearly on an o-scope well outside of our hearing range, is why one may want to consider using an o-scope.
And the oscillation can burn an amp up in a hurry.
If the system is not buzzing away in the RF range then switch to subjective. If it is buzzing away, then objectively one knows that all hell is going to be breaking loose soon, and it is best to stop before the magic smoke leaves the scene. (IMHO)
But there is a crossover… and we do, or at least I, not know what the impedance of that ribbon is.
I am also not sure how the XO is used to combine the speakers with the subwoofers.
There are hundreds of pages I probably missed a lot, like a block diagram.
Some amps also do not like capacitively coupled loads, and want some resistance at DC.
That could be a potential causal mechanism… at least for people like me that understand Ishkawa charts better than Bode plots.
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I am skeptical about this for any normal loudspeaker cable.
Can you please give us one or two specific amplifier/loudspeaker/speaker cable examples in which this happened?
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Post #18 impedance curve mesurements
www.audioshark.org
The only thing that's a bit of a stretch is the efficiency, measured at 2.83 volts/1 watt at 8 ohms, when everyone knows that 4 ohm speakers are measured at 2.0 volts/1 watt. So, more like 85.5 dB instead of 88 dB.
Clarisys Audio USA
High End Audio Speakers - Clarisys Audio USA Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
www.audioshark.org
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