Varese/Gryphon/XVX impressions

Last night I had the opportunity to spend some time with my friend who recently upgraded from Vivaldi Apex stack to Varese. I posted about my prior experiences before and the room/ equipment were unchanged. The Varese feeds a Gryphon Commander which then supplies mono Gryphon Apex amps and then the XVX. The dual subsonics are powered by mono Gryphon Mephistos. Cabling is Transparent Magnum Opus. Isolation is all top HRS.
The room is 22x33 and treated with RPG Modex plate and bad panels. Ceiling uses diffusive Vicoustic panels. The grills are a full 9 feet off the front wall. Set up was originally done by Peter but was subsequently greatly improved over several months by Todd and Gale from the Sound Environment.
David the CEO of DCS and Emron DCS sales accompied us on our listening session. They gave good insight into the project but largely stayed out of the way so that we could draw our own conclusions. DCS spent 8 years and over 10 million pounds on this project. The engineers were given free rein to build the best they could without financial restraint. This created a lot of anxiety for leadership as they didn’t know what they would get or when they would get it. It did end up yielding Lina and Apex to help offset the investments. It is absolutely their intention to trickle this technology down. I directly asked him about that and he said we can and we will. My pure guess reading the tea leaves is less than a year but who knows.
Listening: We listened for nearly 5 hours. Everyone was amazed including the DCS crew. This room is dialed in like no other. Even the rake angle of the subs were adjusted to 84 degrees to match the mains baffles. The first thing anyone said was that these (XVX) dont sound like a speaker brand at all. There was no “Wilson sound” hindering the experience. We listened to all kinds of music. Classical, acoustic jazz, female and male vocalists, rock pop, live, studio. I have a partial list if someone is interested. It’s not a small improvement over Vivaldi. It’s big. Like this is better (knives out) than his Airforce one. There is no Halo there is no ring. It’s dead quiet. 5+ db quieter than Vivaldi. The sound is absolutely natural. I pressed him and he says they don’t apply any software based soundshaping technologies to make it sound more pleasant and less digital. The differences are now mono differential DACs improved power supplies and now Rockport like case work. Billet aluminum with a constrained layer dampening between then. It’s heavy and it doesn’t resonate like before.
Conclusion: this isn’t a review and this is just my opinion. The differential ring DAC and new case work will be the foundation of future DCS products. They are ok with open architecture (using someone else’s streamer) but will likely also make their own to pair with future projects. I have no way to judge if the steep price is worth it to any given individual but if you have the money and listen to a lot of digital it will transform your experience. No unbiased listener could call this unmusical.It is pure music. This is a rare case where it actually is meaningfully better.
Note: this is no slight to Wadax or others. It’s not a comparison. I’m relaying my impressions of a great evening. I don’t usually care for Wilson speakers but this was the best reproduction I have heard in my 65 years. The first picture shows right to left David, Emron and Todd
 
Music Videos please ???
Time for pics and text is over

Lets hear about a vid/ visit of kharma speakers for a change or AV Trio G3 horns :cool:
Always the XVX

I posted a couple of videos of big Karma speakers in my The Absolute Nothing turntable thread. I agree, a video of this system would be interesting.
 
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Just a quick sideline Q, do the HRS Damping Plates add a lot to the final sound?

The description is so good I can’t imagine anything is added to the sound. Seems totally uncoloured. That said, maybe during the analog compare mentioned a HRS plate was put on the air force one platter for a fair compare
 
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So i assume there was sufficient money left for a simple phone recording of the performance as supporting evidence ;)

Nice story JiminGa but it all sounds a bit like marketing
Listen, there is no way on earth to understand the things I’m talking about like that. I’m not your guy to communicate like that. This is purely experiential. No marketing I’m giving my heart felt response to something I I personally witnessed. I was not hoping for this result. Rather than indirectly accuse me of being some kind of shill why don’t you accept that that was my experience? Why don’t you go listen for yourself. I’m sure I could arrange it with my friend. Then if you don’t agree fine. Until then please at least be respectful.



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Just a quick sideline Q, do the HRS Damping Plates add a lot to the final sound?
If they are done correctly yes. You have to experiment. In this case definitely
 
@JiminGa
Very nice, so there are two Varese systems in Georgia now…
No. I actually flew to Omaha to hear the Varese in this particular set up. I trust it to tell the truth and tell the difference. The dial is off the charts. After hearing it Davis tried to get Todd to fly to England to set up theirs.
 
thank you for the great writeup and pictures. sounds like an awesome experience.
Like this is better (knives out) than his Airforce one.
interesting.

"like this is better".......not sure what this means.

can you share more about this comment? can you provide specific pressing compare comments? in what particular ways the Varese was better? cartridge? phono stage? arm?

thanks.
 
Listen, there is no way on earth to understand the things I’m talking about like that. I’m not your guy to communicate like that. This is purely experiential. No marketing I’m giving my heart felt response to something I I personally witnessed. I was not hoping for this result. Rather than indirectly accuse me of being some kind of shill why don’t you accept that that was my experience? Why don’t you go listen for yourself. I’m sure I could arrange it with my friend. Then if you don’t agree fine. Until then please at least be respectful.



A
ap

If they are done correctly yes. You have to experiment. In this case definitely
What does experimenting mean?
Not on every piece of gear, numbers used?
 
Phantom elite arm. Lyra Etna lambda cart. Doshi phono and Dagostino Phonos. The micro dynamics ( I think because of the low noise floor) and the detail retrieval of Varese are simply amazing as is the stunningly natural presentation. As you well know Mike vinyl and digital are simply different beasts. Some will always prefer vinyl. I should have said “ for me” and not make a blanket statement like I did. I do enjoy vinyl and am in the middle of a year long custom analog project. This was the first time i seriously questioned my need for analog. Take everything you know about Apex and remove the digital (unmusical) feel of it and replace it with naturalness. You may still love Wadax more. I have no frame of reference for that. But side by side you will conclude that Varese is a significant step forward for DCS.
 
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Phantom elite arm. Lyra Etna lambda cart. Doshi phono and Dagostino Phonos. The micro dynamics ( I think because of the low noise floor) and the detail retrieval of Varese are simply amazing as is the stunningly natural presentation. As you well know Mike vinyl and digital are simply different beasts. Some will always prefer vinyl. I should have said “ for me” and not make a blanket statement like I did. I do enjoy vinyl and am in the middle of a year long custom analog project. This was the first time i seriously questioned my need for analog. Take everything you know about Apex and remove the digital (unmusical) feel of it and replace it with naturalness. You may still love Wadax more. I have no frame of reference for that. But side by side you will conclude that Varese is a significant step forward for DCS.
thanks for the details and not trying to pin you to the wall. did you compare the same recording file to vinyl? was there a particular pressing and digital file compare that stood out in particular ways?

perfectly understandable if there were no compares like that or you don't recall and pressing details are hard. sessions like that get intense and fast moving.
 
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Phantom elite arm. Lyra Etna lambda cart. Doshi phono and Dagostino Phonos. The micro dynamics ( I think because of the low noise floor) and the detail retrieval of Varese are simply amazing as is the stunningly natural presentation. As you well know Mike vinyl and digital are simply different beasts. Some will always prefer vinyl. I should have said “ for me” and not make a blanket statement like I did. I do enjoy vinyl and am in the middle of a year long custom analog project. This was the first time i seriously questioned my need for analog. Take everything you know about Apex and remove the digital (unmusical) feel of it and replace it with naturalness. You may still love Wadax more. I have no frame of reference for that. But side by side you will conclude that Varese is a significant step forward for DCS.

I have only heard the TechDAS AF1 once, and it was with large Wilsons and a Phantom Elite arm. It is not the most resolving or natural sounding turntable, IMO. I am not surprised that some would prefer SOTA digital to the sound of the AF1 and Phantom arm. Such comparisons do tell us something about how much digital has improved. I am glad to read it.
 
I have only heard the TechDAS AF1 once, and it was with large Wilsons and a Phantom Elite arm. It is not the most resolving or natural sounding turntable, IMO. I am not surprised that some would prefer SOTA digital to the sound of the AF1 and Phantom arm. Such comparisons do tell us something about how much digital has improved. I am glad to read it.

Techdas AF3p with Dava is absolutely fantastic. The issue is more of what pressings are used, and how transparent the system is to those analog recordings. And the gain matched in the cartridge chain. It is easy to make the analog sound sluggish or dead
 
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thanks for the details and not trying to pin you to the wall. did you compare the same recording file to vinyl? was there a particular pressing and digital file compare that stood out in particular ways?

perfectly understandable if there were no compares like that or you don't recall and pressing details are hard. sessions like that get intense and fast moving.
We did direct compares the last time I was in Omaha a couple of months ago. I remember 3 of them but there were more: Dean Martin “ if you were the only girl”, Hugh Masekela “ Coal Train” and Neil Young live at Massey Hall, At that time it was just me and Doug. This time I didn’t control things, I know several of the tracks cold on vinyl and digital. The Varese didnt sound like either. It’s its own beast. Any individual may or may not see the value in that. For me and only me I did. Plenty of joy can be found at 1/10th the price and I understand any normal person shaking their head at the idea of it all. I just had to hear for myself so I spent 2 days and a round trip plane ticket to Nebraska plus lodging just to hear for myself. Too many opinions out there with absolutely zero actual experience to support them. We are left with reviewers and whisper down the lane pundits parroting them giving the appearance of broad agreement and creating their own reality. Sorry for going off topic.
 
We did direct compares the last time I was in Omaha a couple of months ago. I remember 3 of them but there were more: Dean Martin “ if you were the only girl”, Hugh Masekela “ Coal Train” and Neil Young live at Massey Hall, At that time it was just me and Doug. This time I didn’t control things, I know several of the tracks cold on vinyl and digital. The Varese didnt sound like either. It’s its own beast. Any individual may or may not see the value in that. For me and only me I did. Plenty of joy can be found at 1/10th the price and I understand any normal person shaking their head at the idea of it all. I just had to hear for myself so I spent 2 days and a round trip plane ticket to Nebraska plus lodging just to hear for myself. Too many opinions out there with absolutely zero actual experience to support them. We are left with reviewers and whisper down the lane pundits parroting them giving the appearance of broad agreement and creating their own reality. Sorry for going off topic.
perfect, thank you.
 
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Techdas AF3p with Dava is absolutely fantastic. The issue is more of what pressings are used, and how transparent the system is to those analog recordings. And the gain matched in the cartridge chain. It is easy to make the analog sound sluggish out or out

I do not doubt it. I have heard the AF3, don't know if it was the premium, and it was very good. I suspect I might prefer the AF3P to the AF1 in a direct comparison. Sorry for the diversion off of the thread topic.
 
I have only heard the TechDAS AF1 once, and it was with large Wilsons and a Phantom Elite arm. It is not the most resolving or natural sounding turntable, IMO. I am not surprised that some would prefer SOTA digital to the sound of the AF1 and Phantom arm. Such comparisons do tell us something about how much digital has improved. I am glad to read it.

I have a different opinion. I have owned a TechDas AF1 plus with a Graham Phantoma at a period I also owned an EMT 927/SME 3012R. IMO the TechDas was the best turntable I owned, much closer to the performance of the Studer A80 playing tapes than the EMT. I got it from a friend who owned also a Continuum Caliburn and I listened to both side by side several times in comparison, including with the SAT turntable. IMO , all ranked very high in quality. There are so large differences in sound quality between top vinyl that choice is mainly a question of listener preference, not which is the "best". But the TechDas /Graham was extremely resolving and neutral - easily the best vinyl system I owned.

I have now listened several times in separate sessions to the dCS Varese with D'Agostino's Relentless and XVX. When playing top digital recordings, IMO it is at a different level from all else I have listened in stereo - an immediate absence of artifacts that can disorienting - where are they gone?
 
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