dCS Varese short review

[Mike Lavigne]

about why vinyl A/B references are important.

you will never read a turntable, arm or cartridge review without references to particular pressings. because that is a hard reference that the reader might likely have or similar. and the better reviews might reference 5 or 10 pressings. there is no place to hide with such references. and beyond a certain level of vinyl playback performance the performance is pretty predictable system to system. it's why when i hear a digital to vinyl compare in a new to me system it has value beyond just my impressions of the digital by itself. i can go back and listen to the vinyl and connect some real world dots. way better than not having that.

so if you are comparing digital to particular vinyl then that is a data point worth looking up. vinyl owners can listen to that pressing and what is claimed and have a real in system reference. not perfect, but useful and real.

"compared to what exactly?"

 

[microstrip]

If the Varese offers the closest thing yet compared to live(1) then what is the Wadax?

No one told it in such absolute terms. But yes, some people will tell similar things about their preferred.

If Ron likes tubes

It seems so ...

and tubes are often likened to vinyl

People are free to say what they say. I can't see how.

then how do we reconcile that the Horizon sounds more like tubes compared to the Wadax but the Wadax is closest to vinyl per Mike?

Easy. Mike is an experienced audiophile, not an AI chatbot.

My point is just that,
a) this does all come down to tastes

Yes. IMO the interesting point is trying to understand preferences.

b) NONE of these DACs is truly just a replication of live or whatever.

Stereo is not a replication of live or whatever. How can stereo gear be?

They ALL have a sonic signature or 'voicing' to them

Yes.

Declaration: I think the Wadax is awesome! It's one of, if not THE, best DACs on the planet! (in other words please don't read this as a shot at the Wadax!)

(1) per Jacob H review - also a bit of interpretation here trying to wade through the somewhat complex verbiage he uses
*Note for Jacob H: Hemingway believed that clear communication is paramount, and that complex language can obscure meaning.

I appreciate Jacob style. Something more than the sometimes anodyne boring style of some audio reviewers. But I do not read audio reviews as cook books, I read them mostly for enjoyment and information. I can understand it easily, but I have been reading him since long.

BTW, I have read a lot of Hemingway, and as far as I remember the objectives of his famous writing style were not clear communication - it was much more than that. A complex subject in fact.

 

[microstrip]

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/attachments/a1-jpg.146716/

per JH@theabsolutesound

Did you notice he restricts his comment to a few aspects of real? His comment is extremely simple to understand. And very relevant to readers who favor these aspects in sound reproduction.

 

[treitz3]

Yet, his comments are not as confrontational.

Tom

 

[microstrip]

not exactly established. when Jacob names names of which sources he is assigning sounding live compared to. i will attach appropriate weight to it (only skimmed his review, not really digested it yet).

Fortunately it is not the way Jacob reviews components. We have WBF for such task ...

understand i hold the Varese in the highest regard and i might prefer it to my Wadax. but in system direct compares matter to me.

Surely they matter - in your system you should carry them - they are important for you, you have to take decisions on it, according to your preference.

the new Varese review in Stereophile has zero in system compares other than references to the Vivaldi Apex (he did not want to have to switch cables.....not exactly digging in to get the info). the reviewer does not do vinyl or tape. nice review but how much use can it be? not that i don't appreciate what effort was given.

Well, we have different ways of appreciating reviews. I read it before listening to the dCS Varese and found it useful.

too bad Fremer is not still at Stereophile and could have compared the Varese to his vinyl. now that would get my attention. would dCS want that? not sure.

Well, Fremer has now compared the DartZeel preamplfier to the D'Agostino Relentless preamplifier. It will probably get your attention ...

I was sitting side to him the day of the official presentation of the dCS Varese at our distributor. Surely we only talked about vinyl and tonearms, he was running a cartridge setup workshop.

this is where i come from. source to source and format to format in system comparing. allows for true references over time. not perfect, but what we have that we can go and check any time, truth to the degree it can be found.

when i say that the Wadax does sound like my vinyl, i am very serious about it, and understand what that means. 'live' is a nebulous term. can't A/B live in system.

So much noise about apples versus oranges ...

 

[Ron Resnick]

What a surprise coming from Taiko praetorian guard.....

Hello,

I don't know what you even think you're talking about. I do not have Taiko. I don't spend that much money on digital.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, I expect more from you.. First listening at a show and making quality decisions is IMO absurd. I was not at Axpona this year and the room that Magico had was our old room. We wrestled with that space for a number of years and if I am honest the room always won. I think at best in that room I would give our results a c+. Is that the gear? HELL NO. I invite you anytime to come to my room and listen to a Wadax in a proper atmosphere. BTW a Wadax DAC is under 180k and the server is under 80k.
I love the Axpona but trying to accomplish what is not possible meaning providing world class sound in mediocre spaces is not a battle that can be won. The Audio Industry needs to find better ways to display its wares.

Hello Elliot,

Respectfully, you read a lot into what I wrote. I meant only that I don't hear differences between those price levels that are valuable to me.

Of course listening at a show and making quality decisions is absurd.

I don't know what any of your other comments has to do with what I wrote.

 

[Ron Resnick]

throwing out that number is misleading but i get it helps to make your point.

Mike, I honestly have no idea what point you think I'm trying to make other than the bare words of what I said. Brandon Lauer, unless I misheard him sitting right next to me, I believe told me that the total MSRP of all the Wadax components in the M9 room was $600,000.

What offense do you think I have committed here by repeating exactly what Brandon told me in person?

but it's a real difference and worth it to some.

What did I write that is inconsistent with this?

 

[Audiocrack]

Mike, I honestly have no idea what point you think I'm trying to make other than the bare words of what I said. Brandon Lauer, unless I misheard him sitting right next to me, I believe told me that the total MSRP of all the Wadax components in the M9 room was $600,000.

What offense do you think I have committed here by repeating exactly what Brandon told me in person?


What did I write that is inconsistent with this?

I spelled it out to you in my previous reaction in this thread: the numbers you mentioned are not correct cq misleading if you wanna compare the qualities of a server/dac combination.

 

[andromedaaudio]

On a somewhat related note....

I am very curious to hear the upcoming MSB Sentinel. It will be quite interesting to compare and contrast the Wadax v dCS Varese v MSB Sentinel. I suspect that the MSB will come out very strong. But, shortly after that the Wadax will offer and update - maybe Level 5 and the Varese will offer an Apex-like update but software focused.

They are all bringing out one reference after another almost every year a new " reference ""
The design teams of MSB and DCS got a kick up the **** by Wadax .

The Absolute Sound ...... who cares

 

[AndrewChen]

The design teams of MSB and DCS got a kick up the **** by Wadax .

Hahaha...

 

[LL21]

I spelled it out to you in my previous reaction in this thread: the numbers you mentioned are not correct cq misleading if you wanna compare the qualities of a server/dac combination.

Probably helpful if you actually provide the correct like for like number.

 

[Ron Resnick]

the numbers you mentioned are not correct cq misleading if you wanna compare the qualities of a server/dac combination.

Only a partisan would find my neutral, factual post "misleading." You would be correct if I had said "I listened to a server/DAC combination that MSRPs for around $600,000." That would be misleading.

But I didn't write that.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The partisanship and defensiveness on DACs appears to me subjectively to be more extreme than the partisanship on other components. I wonder why this is?

I just thought of a hypothesis: maybe the subjective sonic differences between DACs are smaller and more difficult to discern than are the subjective sonic differences between other types of components, and so people feel more emotionally compelled to defend their expensive choice?

 

[Ron Resnick]

My point is just that,
a) this does all come down to tastes

yes!

 

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[Audiocrack]

Only a partisan would find my neutral, factual post "misleading." You would be correct if I had said "I listened to a server/DAC combination that MSRPs for around $600,000." That would be misleading.

But I didn't write that.

You mentioned explicitly in your post your personal digital favorite: the horizon / olympos combination with a price of usd 150k, being - in your own words - a fraction of the listed prices for other (digital) brands . The horizon / olympos is - only - a dac / server combination. In the same post you made a comparison with Wadax quoting a price of usd 600k without making clear that the latter price includes inter alia a separate sacd-transport, a dedicated PSU for this transport, a separate module for the reference dac and various Wadax Akasa cables. The price of a Wadax reference dac / reference server combination - and that would have been the correct comparison with the usd 150k price you mentioned with regard to the horizon / olympos combination - is only ‘a fraction’ of usd 600k. See the prices Elliot mentioned earlier in this thread. So you do not have to be “a partisan” to conclude that the price of usd 600k is wrong and misleading within the context of the comparison you made yourself.

 

[LL21]

You mentioned explicitly in your post your personal digital favorite: the horizon / olympos combination with a price of usd 150k, being - in your own words - a fraction of the listed prices for other (digital) brands . The horizon / olympos is - only - a dac / server combination. In the same post you made a comparison with Wadax quoting a price of usd 600k without making clear that the latter price includes inter alia a separate sacd-transport, a dedicated PSU for this transport, a separate module for the reference dac and various Wadax Akasa cables. The price of a Wadax reference dac / reference server combination - and that would have been the correct comparison with the usd 150k price you mentioned with regard to the horizon / olympos combination - is only ‘a fraction’ of usd 600k. See the prices Elliot mentioned earlier in this thread. So you do not have to be “a partisan” to conclude that the price of usd 600k is wrong and misleading within the context of the comparison you made yourself.

Roughly what would be the correct like for like price? $250K?

 

[Ron Resnick]

You mentioned explicitly in your post your personal digital favorite: the horizon / olympos combination with a price of usd 150k, being - in your own words - a fraction of the listed prices for other (digital) brands . The horizon / olympos is - only - a dac / server combination. In the same post you made a comparison with Wadax quoting a price of usd 600k without making clear that the latter price includes inter alia a separate sacd-transport, a dedicated PSU for this transport, a separate module for the reference dac and various Wadax Akasa cables. The price of a Wadax reference dac / reference server combination - and that would have been the correct comparison with the usd 150k price you mentioned with regard to the horizon / olympos combination - is only ‘a fraction’ of usd 600k. See the prices Elliot mentioned earlier in this thread. So you do not have to be “a partisan” to conclude that the price of usd 600k is wrong and misleading within the context of the comparison you made yourself.

I understand and I respect this analysis. Thank you for explaining.

 

[Audiocrack]

Roughly what would be the correct like for like price? $250K?

Indeed Lloyd.