I'm sure they are connected...
Ron will be reading a lot of private messages...
dCS Varese short review
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Ron will be reading a lot of private messages...
I like wadax strategy, Wadax studio is available for best performance to price ratio.
No need to think about dCS or Taiko.
I think Wadax strategy is winner in this market
No need to think about dCS or Taiko.
I think Wadax strategy is winner in this market
Specially for those coming to this thread to learn about the dCS Varese:
https://www.moremusic.nl/reviews/dcs/Varese/dCS-Varese-Stereophile.pdf
https://www.moremusic.nl/reviews/dcs/Varese/dCS-Varese-Stereophile.pdf
those 'Off-Islander Audio Society' guys mentioned in the review will be here in my room for a visit next week........
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Hi Amir, can you please elaborate on the Wadax strategy? I am still trying to figure out what is unique or different about them other than the looks of their boxes and a few guys calling them "BEST".
I wouldn't be surprised if the wadax streamer beat the pants of the taiko olympus in a head to head comparison, but there is a huge herd of audiophiles who ordering the olympus just because other people are. Ditto for dcs
This is an hobby that in some aspect is dependent on confirmation bias. IMO the keyword for the high-end is preference. Preference assumes the will of the listener to appreciate and enjoy some type of sound. Many other factors create negative and positive bias in us - the audiophile is a complex being!
But yes, WhatsPreferredForum is a boring name ...
A great way to overcome confirmation bias in this hobby is to compare and contrast gear. If I recall correctly, you are not in favor of that approach. I guess you would rather trust an expert or a mis-incetivized indivudual to push their crap, accept it, and assume their preference it will move you emotionally. That logic Makes ZERO sense to me....
Yet by comparing, people can become aware of the trade-offs and choices they are making... Explicitly enumerating the differences, people can know if they are making the right decision - for their preference.
And yes, I am in agreement with you on "WhatsPreferredForum", or even better, Whats-Preferred-by-a Herd-Forum
*You* introduced vinyl as the straw man here to move the discussion away from the DAC. Fine, but it's a transparent tactic...
It seems unlikely that we'll find any common ground here, so let's move on.
Obviously, those who understand the validity of my argument will disagree that it's a "tactic".
Sounds good to me.
Surely.
Sorry, compare and contrast is what I do all the time. But I deeply disagree with just assessing gear in A/B direct comparisons in the same system. In such conditions we are mostly assessing system combability. An interesting game, but we risk never knowing the real capabilities of gear.
You should get a WBF nomination for wrong guesses and speculation. And probably read a little more of this forum before answering to posts. I know your main purpose is insulting and denigrating the high-end industry, but it becomes tiresome.
Yes, correctly comparing is useful.
And yes, I am in agreement with you on "WhatsPreferredForum", or even better, Whats-Preferred-by-a Herd-Forum
You really do not understand what is high-end audio ...
the word 'just' is so open-ended. maybe you are referring to measurements? i'm just guessing.
not every A/B compare in the same system is equally valid. but subjectively many are very valid and the best we can possibly do as non scientists. this is a hobby and we don't need to have scientific rigor. A/B compares are imperfectly perfect. we should embrace them. we ought to have a method that we enjoy and that results in a reasonable outcome. it takes practice and extended time. it is a serious thing. we have to have a bit of skepticism too and push for the truth. maybe get extra ears for major questions.
typically most serious hifi A/B compares in the same system are in cases where there is already some experience in other systems with the same gear. so there is that extra experience to be another case for evidence. or inside a system there are alternate ways to view the gear. we do have to use the tools we have the best we can. multiple sources and formats are useful as a reference.
which is what is in the end most important. how it works to our ears in our own system. it's not the whole picture, but the heart of the matter.
but i reject the notion that our conclusions are mainly about system compatibility. while it is possible, it can be not true too. we can get to a level of objectivity about conclusions across many types of systems. it takes vetting of your system over time.
the bigger risk is never trying to get our own good answer and just taking someone else's word for things. that can be costly.
it does help to have a mature system that is based on musical truth. which is lots of work to get to, but worth it.
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Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Caesar,
There are always reasons people buy what they do and also why they support some products over others. Some of those reasons may even be the sound however they are only a part of the story.
I know you are into marketing and the marketing, advertising, and various other factors play a huge roll in choosing. I can tell you that very few if any people ever came into my business and said I want a _____________ and bought it. ( I am talking about things like a Wadax, dCS etc.) These devices need to be experienced to some degree and then people use their senses to decide. BTW Audiophiles are not the only ones that buy LOL
Wadax has been clear in their design criteria, its right there on their website however they do not do the same things that Taiko has done here on WBF or the same type of plan as dCS. These are three different companies doing things their own way. You may like it , you may not but it isn''t our choice except of whether we enjoy it and want to own their gear.
Everyone that gets involved with quality audio usually has an AH HAH moment. That experience is usually a time when someone realizes that there are things in the world they have never seen, heard, enjoyed, tasted etc. These can be life changing. They were for me.
I am just addressing subjective listening - simply our own preference.
Not measurements or science, but I surely use what I learn from science to valuate the methodology and the conditions of the test.
Practice and extended time - just my main points. A/B compares seldom happen during a long time - only crazy audiophiles keep three amplifiers during many months or years to evaluate and keep them
(I kept four to avoid being considered crazy ). Practice means you know that with top high-end gear you have to optimize the whole system, not just put the unit in it and listen. Oh, now we in "serious" A/B compares ... The 5% of all compares ...
An assumed risk in the hobby. We can't listen to everything. Sure we have to weight opinions and merge all of them. I do it every time and even wrote on my weighting method.
Musical truth? An alternative version of "natural"?
so we mostly agree about these things.I am just addressing subjective listening - simply our own preference.
Not measurements or science, but I surely use what I learn from science to valuate the methodology and the conditions of the test.
Practice and extended time - just my main points. A/B compares seldom happen during a long time - only crazy audiophiles keep three amplifiers during many months or years to evaluate and keep them
Oh, now we in "serious" A/B compares ... The 5% of all compares ...
An assumed risk in the hobby. We can't listen to everything. Sure we have to weight opinions and merge all of them. I do it every time and even wrote on my weighting method.
one man's XXX is another man's XXX.Musical truth? An alternative version of "natural"?
...or XVX as the case may be.
On a somewhat related note....
I am very curious to hear the upcoming MSB Sentinel. It will be quite interesting to compare and contrast the Wadax v dCS Varese v MSB Sentinel. I suspect that the MSB will come out very strong. But, shortly after that the Wadax will offer and update - maybe Level 5 and the Varese will offer an Apex-like update but software focused.
I am very curious to hear the upcoming MSB Sentinel. It will be quite interesting to compare and contrast the Wadax v dCS Varese v MSB Sentinel. I suspect that the MSB will come out very strong. But, shortly after that the Wadax will offer and update - maybe Level 5 and the Varese will offer an Apex-like update but software focused.
If the Varese offers the closest thing yet compared to live(1) then what is the Wadax? If Ron likes tubes and tubes are often likened to vinyl then how do we reconcile that the Horizon sounds more like tubes compared to the Wadax but the Wadax is closest to vinyl per Mike?
My point is just that,
a) this does all come down to tastes
b) NONE of these DACs is truly just a replication of live or whatever. They ALL have a sonic signature or 'voicing' to them
Declaration: I think the Wadax is awesome! It's one of, if not THE, best DACs on the planet! (in other words please don't read this as a shot at the Wadax!)
(1) per Jacob H review - also a bit of interpretation here trying to wade through the somewhat complex verbiage he uses
*Note for Jacob H: Hemingway believed that clear communication is paramount, and that complex language can obscure meaning.
My point is just that,
a) this does all come down to tastes
b) NONE of these DACs is truly just a replication of live or whatever. They ALL have a sonic signature or 'voicing' to them
Declaration: I think the Wadax is awesome! It's one of, if not THE, best DACs on the planet! (in other words please don't read this as a shot at the Wadax!)
(1) per Jacob H review - also a bit of interpretation here trying to wade through the somewhat complex verbiage he uses
*Note for Jacob H: Hemingway believed that clear communication is paramount, and that complex language can obscure meaning.
and how is that established? more like live compared to which other sources? if we are using that hyperbole as fact.
depends on who is claiming the live territory and what else they have had in for compare. the dCS Vivaldi Apex? don't drag Wadax into that equation.
not by me. and i am saying that in a relative sense. everything sounds like vinyl to one degree or another. but adding distortion to a digital signal at the top of the food chain is not helping so far in my experience. but a good fit for many ears and systems and tube rolling preferences.
sure.
agree. all reproduction has an element of taste and attempts to sound real in some form or fashion.
none taken.
per JH@theabsolutesound
not exactly established. when Jacob names names of which sources he is assigning sounding live compared to. i will attach appropriate weight to it (only skimmed his review, not really digested it yet).
understand i hold the Varese in the highest regard and i might prefer it to my Wadax. but in system direct compares matter to me. the new Varese review in Stereophile has zero in system compares other than references to the Vivaldi Apex (he did not want to have to switch cables.....not exactly digging in to get the info). the reviewer does not do vinyl or tape. nice review but how much use can it be? not that i don't appreciate what effort was given. too bad Fremer is not still at Stereophile and could have compared the Varese to his vinyl. now that would get my attention. would dCS want that? not sure.
this is where i come from. source to source and format to format in system comparing. allows for true references over time. not perfect, but what we have that we can go and check any time, truth to the degree it can be found.
when i say that the Wadax does sound like my vinyl, i am very serious about it, and understand what that means. 'live' is a nebulous term. can't A/B live in system.
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i did just now go to Jacob's review and look closely for direct compares to vinyl. there are none even though he has two super uber turntables in his system.
he does refer to vinyl often in his review. but zero descriptions of an A/B. clearly he thinks it's a worthy standard. yet my guess is that it was hands-off to do a direct compare.
there is a pattern here i think.
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