Taralabs grandmaster evolution: new top of the line cables from Taralabs

[ack]

I think something here needs to be addressed.

Besides promising designs and performance that shatters all previous barriers, and claiming
some sort of questionable unique technology, virtually no cable companies making products at the shocking
price points offer any technical information beside marketing slush. They offer no measurements, no specifications,
and no certification.

I have a close friend who has been selling the highest of high end cables to the government, the military, and corporations
for life and death, mission critical applications of all kinds, digital, analog, etc. While they are much more expensive than
any data or analog cable you will be from an office supply store, they are highly engineered, by actual engineers. Lives
literally depend on these cables, and the pricing is downright thrift shop compared to the high flyers in the audio cable world.

My friend must supply pages of specifications, test results, and certifications.

See below for a just a sales spec sheet for industrial grade Cat7 Ethernet Cable:
http://www.primuscable.com/Shared/images/32_SpecSheets/C7SS-116GY.pdf

A sales sheet for mil spec industrial hook up wire:
http://www.carlisleit.com/sites/default/files/resources/documents/CompositeWireCable.pdf

We now for sure, for example, that many of the "audiophile" grade USB cables that are so popular now do not
even meet basic USB specifications.

If the military were to spend on wires what we audiophiles do or even 1/100th of that, everyone would cry government waste. With audiophiles, things are different.

 

[ack]

Here's the rub. If you've gone as far as having a dedicated run of electricity for your stereo, you most likely have 20 amp service now. 400 amp capacity being fed from a 20 amp service! And this is better, why?

Great comments, just one minor point: just because an amp draws 20A from a 120V line doesn't mean it cannot output more amps at a lower voltage; in fact, many can (we call them high-current amps) - an amp just can't output more power than it draws. Your points about the wire sizes inside the amps and speakers are obviously very true.

 

[rockitman]

The problem is there are so many variations of The Big Bang that it would be difficult to pick one

No kidding...just checking eBay. The Tourbillon versions are the ones to go for if you can justify the expense. Funny, if I didn't buy Odin cable, I could buy one. I do get more satisfaction however, maximizing my audio reproduction than telling time. Go figure...

 

[RogerD]

That's bad a$$ Roger

Steve.....It is a beautiful car. I am building a 32 valve Westlake 372 stroker to stuff in it. My dream car.

 

[Andre Marc]

If the military were to spend on wires what we audiophiles do or even 1/100th of that, everyone would cry government waste. With audiophiles, things are different.

True, but I was not stressing that point. I was looking at it from the point of view that you can't "market" to the military and high end industry.

They will toss your ass out.

You need to make a product that works in the most critical applications, and prove it.

Let's also note the military is routinely gouged, over paying by factors of 100x for ordinary products
and services due to crony capitalism and insider contracts.

 

[MylesBAstor]

"The Floating Ground Station doesn't change tone or timbre but makes everything clear and sharp: in a word, pristine."

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/tara_labs.htm

Interesting as I have been saying the same thing (ad nauseum,sorry guys), so if this kind of performance can be achieved for pennies on the dollar,then for 42K you get coloration? And yes Myles it does have a profound effect on the noise floor and spatiality. I know because I hear it every day in my system. Technology should bring lower costs,not stratospheric prices and that seems to be practiced by so few now. Also I am not against so called high end cables,after all I have spent about 15K on mine and that was before I became enlightened about EMI. Now,since I have a core cable bundle in place I get the same performance from quad double shield mic cable. Yes,I realise that this goes against tradional thinking,but everybody is coming out with noise or ground devices and they all experience the same characteristics. So what do you actually get for 42K? Seems like to me uneccessary or outdated technology.

p.s. In my system the tone and timbre did improve.

Roger I wrote about noise problems in the AC lines feeding our gear in the early '90s. It's hardly new news. Hardly any of it is news save for the amount of EMI/RFI in the environment has increased by orders of magnitude. We are bathed in it daily.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Why is it that anyone is concerned with how someone else spends their money? In Yiddish it's called a Yenta. It's actually no one else's business how I, Steve, Mike, or anyone here spends their money.

 

[Champ04]

Great comments, just one minor point: just because an amp draws 20A from a 120V line doesn't mean it cannot output more amps at a lower voltage; in fact, many can (we call them high-current amps) - an amp just can't output more power than it draws. .

Naturally. Even so.
Was trying not to get too technical. LOL

 

[TBone]

Consider the REALITY of the situation. A 3 ought (000) ALUMINUM cable has an 200 amp current carrying capacity. This is, ostensibly, of a length greater than your typical speaker cable length. A COPPER 3 ought cable has a 400 amp capacity!! And that's just industrial copper. I'd imagine that an Oxygen Free, 8 Nines (OF8N) copper could do still better.

Here's the rub. If you've gone as far as having a dedicated run of electricity for your stereo, you most likely have 20 amp service now. 400 amp capacity being fed from a 20 amp service! And this is better, why?
Here's another rub. The wire inside the chassis of even some of the most expensive and highly regarded amplifiers out there is 18 gauge. Let's be generous and call it 12 gauge. And the wiring just inside your speaker (at the other end of the speaker cable) is most likely the same 18 gauge. But we'll be generous and call it 12 as well. No, lets do better. I'm sure there are a couple guys out there who probably have 10 gauge wire in their speakers and will try to discount my entire argument by focusing on that. So let's settle that right now. Let's assume that both your amplifier and your speaker have 4 gauge wire inside. That's 4 gauge wire bookending 3 ought wire!! And this is better, why?

lets not forget perhaps the biggest "rub" ... all those tiny fuse wires ...

 

[RogerD]

Roger I wrote about noise problems in the AC lines feeding our gear in the early '90s. It's hardly new news. Hardly any of it is news save for the amount of EMI/RFI in the environment has increased by orders of magnitude. We are bathed in it daily.

Tell that the industry.....

 

[TBone]

Roger I wrote about noise problems in the AC lines feeding our gear in the early '90s. It's hardly new news. Hardly any of it is news save for the amount of EMI/RFI in the environment has increased by orders of magnitude. We are bathed in it daily.

Yes you did, as did others back then ... and indeed, it's a growing problem ... especially to audiophiles within growing urban populations. And cables can act as antennas ... so ...

 

[ack]

To Mike's point. Cables along with the AC are crucial to a system's transparency. Cable's can and do make or break a system's transparency, to wit MIT and Skogrand. The cable's "inherent" noise is so vanishingly low that it allows much more information, specifically that of the spatial variety, to pass through the system. But if your source isn't up to it, you won't hear it. The system's transparency is only as good as the weakest link in the chain.

+1 on the bolded and +100 especially on the underlined.

 

[RogerD]

"The Floating Ground Station doesn't change tone or timbre but makes everything clear and sharp: in a word, pristine."

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/tara_labs.htm

Interesting as I have been saying the same thing (ad nauseum,sorry guys), so if this kind of performance can be achieved for pennies on the dollar,then for 42K you get coloration? And yes Myles it does have a profound effect on the noise floor and spatiality. I know because I hear it every day in my system. Technology should bring lower costs,not stratospheric prices and that seems to be practiced by so few now. Also I am not against so called high end cables,after all I have spent about 15K on mine and that was before I became enlightened about EMI. Now,since I have a core cable bundle in place I get the same performance from quad double shield mic cable. Yes,I realise that this goes against tradional thinking,but everybody is coming out with noise or ground devices and they all experience the same characteristics. So what do you actually get for 42K? Seems like to me uneccessary or outdated technology.

p.s. In my system the tone and timbre did improve.

Roger I wrote about noise problems in the AC lines feeding our gear in the early '90s. It's hardly new news. Hardly any of it is news save for the amount of EMI/RFI in the environment has increased by orders of magnitude. We are bathed in it daily.

Myles.....you can call me out....sure you can...but that's not fair because I experimented and found a way to rid my system completely of EMI and get the exact same performance for 50 bucks using 2 2 gauge wires and you have the gaul to do so....shame.

 

[TBone]

Myles.....you can call me out....sure you can...but that's not fair because I experimented and found a way to rid my system completely of EMI and get the exact same performance for 50 bucks using 2 2 gauge wires and you have the gaul to do so....shame.

You guys realize that essentially - you're arguing the same argument - using different experiences?

 

[microstrip]

Are you in the consulting business by any chance?

No. But I am in the science and engineering and I dislike when people just look at the tips of the icebergs and ignore the whole.

 

[microstrip]

(...) But I do have an issue with the way TaraLabs presents these cables. Reading their website, most of the description focuses on the gauge.
"The new Evolution speaker cable is a stunning achievement, boasting the greatest current-carrying capability of any speaker cable in the world"
"Importantly, the gauge size for each channel is far greater than any speaker cable ever made or ever conceived in history."
"The size ... hints at its incredible power."

Consider the REALITY of the situation. A 3 ought (000) ALUMINUM cable has an 200 amp current carrying capacity. This is, ostensibly, of a length greater than your typical speaker cable length. A COPPER 3 ought cable has a 400 amp capacity!! And that's just industrial copper. I'd imagine that an Oxygen Free, 8 Nines (OF8N) copper could do still better.

Here's the rub. If you've gone as far as having a dedicated run of electricity for your stereo, you most likely have 20 amp service now. 400 amp capacity being fed from a 20 amp service! And this is better, why?
Here's another rub. The wire inside the chassis of even some of the most expensive and highly regarded amplifiers out there is 18 gauge. Let's be generous and call it 12 gauge. And the wiring just inside your speaker (at the other end of the speaker cable) is most likely the same 18 gauge. But we'll be generous and call it 12 as well. No, lets do better. I'm sure there are a couple guys out there who probably have 10 gauge wire in their speakers and will try to discount my entire argument by focusing on that. So let's settle that right now. Let's assume that both your amplifier and your speaker have 4 gauge wire inside. That's 4 gauge wire bookending 3 ought wire!! And this is better, why?

If reality worked this way there would be no need for any community to have a Fire Department. We already have the infrastructure to accomplish the same thing! All we have to do take our garden hose (Ie. amplifier internal wiring) and connect to it a big fat 6 inch fire hose (Ie. 3 ought speaker cable) and we'll have enough water coming out of there to douse any flame!!

This is the kind of logic that makes audiophiles look like idiots.
Once again, I don't doubt for one second that these cables sound as described. And I'll even defend the price if I have to.
But the performance is NOT a function of the reasons given. So why claim that the cable is better because it's 3 ought? For no better reason than that's the easiest way to justify the price. It's a pissing contest, and TaraLabs has the biggest cock, by far.

You will have similar issues with the marketing of ANY high-end product. Its is not possible to do marketing with any fundamental truth on the objective characteristics of exceptional products to be used in stereo reproduction. Nothing in the objective data can show the average consumer why he should really buy it in preference to other products. IMHO pseudo-technical marketing has two purposes - capture the attention and interest of the reader to get more information and try the product and create a recognizable market image. As a secondary effect it supplies endless fuel to the anti high-end brigade, that love to explore its inconsistencies and uncorrelated technical arguments, that wisely ignore any true reason why the cables sound like they do.

 

[microstrip]

I think something here needs to be addressed.

Besides promising designs and performance that shatters all previous barriers, and claiming
some sort of questionable unique technology, virtually no cable companies making products at the shocking
price points offer any technical information beside marketing slush. They offer no measurements, no specifications,
and no certification.

Andre,

Let us reverse the question. You are a professional audio reviewer - what exact specifications do you think an audio cable manufacturer should supply to please you?

 

[MylesBAstor]

Andre,

Let us reverse the question. You are a professional audio reviewer - what exact specifications do you think an audio cable manufacturer should supply to please you?

Being Andre is an engineer, I am very interested in his thoughts!

 

[Steve Williams]

Being Andre is an engineer, I am very interested in his thoughts!

IMO the fairer way would be to ask everyone here who has a position on cables list what they want. Andre's wants may be different from yours Myles so no need for you to be the arm chair quarterback.

So what say you all....you as well Francisco

 

[MylesBAstor]

IMO the fairer way would be to ask everyone here who has a position on cables list what they want. Andre's wants may be different from yours Myles so no need for you to be the arm chair quarterback.

So what say you all....you as well Francisco

Steve you TOTALLY misinterpreted my comment. Andre and I are pretty good friends and knowing his engineering background, am interested in what he thinks.