New Evolution Acoustics "SYSTEM" Speakers paired with Dartzeel

[Lee]

I just viewed a video by the Audiphillic. I wonder how many of these are actually purchased by audiophiles.
I suppose if you buy the Wilson WAMM for example rhat qualities you for at least hoary status in the audio club
It's like gthe guy who has a pool but can't swim

I don’t know about that. The two guys I know with WAMMs are serious audiophiles.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I suppose if you buy the Wilson WAMM for example rhat qualities you for at least hoary status in the audio club
It's like gthe guy who has a pool but can't swim

That analogy won't hunt.

How many people with Wilson WAMM speakers in their systems don't know how to use their systems?

 

[Gregadd]

Ok so I don't have specific demographics on WAMM owners.?
I certainly hope ev?eryone that owned a WAMM is a serious audiophile. I would be willing to wager that is not the case. I might have been influenced by a video thatt sl8ghtly racist.he worked in upscale stereo store

That analogy won't hunt.

How many people with Wilson WAMM speakers in their systems don't know how to use their systems?

I like looking at the water!

It's OK Ron.A pool in Souther California is standard issue.

 

[Gregadd]

That analogy won't hunt.

How many people with Wilson WAMM speakers in their systems don't know how to use their systems?

Buying a white elephant (imo)is fairly common in all fields
To paraphrase Dave Wilson
I don't care if audiophiles can afford my speakers
And that was said about the WATT Puppy.
I would like tee some demographics for WAMM purchasers.

 

[Elliot G.]

I am sure the demographics of every super luxury prodfuct vs. the customers experience and ability would probably disapoint the "audiophile" check list.
For sure every Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche etc. driver isnt a qaulified race car driver.Every person that owns a Patek or FP Journe, or Audemars etc isnt a watch expert and everyone that buys an expensive audio system is not an audiophile by this forums definition..
So what? Is everyone that owns Wolf or Subzero a gourmet cook? Does everyone that own a Steinway a concert pianist.
People like nice things, many want to buy what they think is the "best" or among the best. This is human nature and as someone in the Industry I am very thankful that this occurs. If it didnt the whole Industry would have collapsed a long time ago, Audiophiles are NOT the only purchasers of high end audio gear many people just find there way into a store and buy something they like and that is the end of the story.
Bless them and many of them end up with the best systems as they allow people to do their best and do the entire job.

 

[Johan K]

I like looking at the water!

I get sea-sick watching someone drink water!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

late last night i got home after a leisurely drive up the left coast from the show in Costa Mesa. it was nice to be retired and not in a hurry.

Well your MM7 have 4 x 11" cones and 4 x 15" cones...which probably have great air displacement-distortion perhaps because it does not take much movement back and forth to move a meaningful amount of air.

debatable whether the larger drivers with less excursion are more or less precise than more smaller drivers given equal or greater air moving ability of more smaller drivers. according to Kevin the new design is more capable, not less. my ears tell me he is the most credible speaker designer i know of.

The System 7 is 16 x 7" cones which is only around 10% less cone surface area...but I wonder if the 7" cones have to work harder to create the same of amount of air displacement (ie, moving back and forth which is where distortion presumably starts to set in).

i would be buying the SYSTEM 9, not the SYSTEM 7. working harder? no. only that due to the physics of driver alignment, and the advantages of the new shape, these smaller drivers have domes, not cones. so driver movement is more visually apparent.

at the show there were comments about the apparent visual (remember domes, not cones) pumping of the sub tower drivers, causing listeners to assume there is a high level of distortion going on, or some other 'problem. the issue is

(1) the extreme deep bass response of the SYSTEM 7 speaker. it can produce frequencies to 'DC', lower than 1 hz,

(2) with vinyl and less than perfectly flat pressings there are going to be subsonic odd frequencies coming through the signal path. normally the speakers will not be able to 'go there' in any way, shape or form. but the SYSTEM can absolutely 'go there' how well it goes there depends on which SYSTEM implementation (5/7/9) is acquired. there was zero of this visual pumping with digital as it does not contain any of this subsonic content, only with the vinyl,

(3) the only downside to this low frequency capability is system power grid and amplifier headroom. at the show the first day (new show location, strange room, lots of details to work through) you had one 15 amp circuit powering the whole system. then Saturday two more 15 amp circuits were brought in to assist. but when vinyl was played you still had the lights flicker a bit. so a considerable lack of power grid headroom did blunt the excellence of the vinyl. in my room i have 70 amp service to my system with -5- 20 amp circuits feeding just my amplification. and with a SYSTEM 9 i would have 6 amps instead of 4 for just the bass under 50 hz so the excursion of the 24 drivers would be much less.

(4) Herve (darTZeel---preamp and cartridges), Joel Durand (tonearms), and Kevin Malmgren (speakers) were discussing the cause and effect of the extreme low frequencies. what were the slopes of the internal subsonic filters of the dart pre? what setting should the speaker subsonic speaker be set at? what was the new 'LE' version of the Durand tonearm and darTZeel prototype cartridges contributing to these very low frequencies? i'm not the answer guy for these questions. when you push envelopes stuff happens.

That said, both speakers are moving a LOT of air, and with the new system, the 24 x 7" cones has 60% more surface area than the System 7.

yes. but it's 50% more.

MY QUESTION: CAN YOU STACK THE BASS TOWER SO IT IS 3 OF THE 4X7" CONES ON TOP OF EACH OTHER? I am concerned about having 6 speakers in a room...4 is already quite a lot of room. Fortunately, if you CAN get a super-tall 12-cone tower, then you could easily have a 4-tower which would be quite svelte and have a footprint not much different than many large speakers.

yes, 8 feet tall, easily fits in my room.

 

[microstrip]

I just viewed a video by the Audiphillic. I wonder how many of these are actually purchased by audiophiles.
I suppose if you buy the Wilson WAMM for example rhat qualities you for at least hoary status in the audio club
It's like the guy who has a pool but can't swim

What is the point of this post? To be sure that this nasty comment gets the attention of people and controversy because it refers to the WAMM, that is known to have been a case of success in the high-end?

Buying a white elephant (imo)is fairly common in all fields
To paraphrase Dave Wilson
I don't care if audiophiles can afford my speakers
And that was said about the WATT Puppy.

Please give us the full context of this sentence of David WIlson. He is also known to have said a lot more of interesting things in his book "Life in the Rearview Mirror" https://www.wilsonaudio.com/pdf/Life in the Reveiw Mirror-web.pdf

I would like tee some demographics for WAMM purchasers.

Can you tell us what you call "the demographics for WAMM purchasers" ? Their income, age, country, race or religion?

 

[Johan K]

Hmm… I’m not quite sure if I like the looks of the setup of this system in the video clip. Starting to look more like a PA system setup, just to be able to play more and louder. Not that I don’t fancy the speakers or the brand for that matter, but as far as aesthetic concerns, I like Mike’s 4 tower setup a 1000 more then this 6 tower setup. Also… the looks of Mike’s speakers looks way better, compared to the new ones… but that is only my own opinion, someone maybe likes the new one’s more, and that’s just find.

On the other hand, if one want more then this, one better go for a complete MayerSound PA system for large scale events, with multiple 1100-ULFC (Ultra Low Frequency Control) Units… I’m sure the windows will leave the house for Jupiter after the first hit on kick-drum, hehehe.

/ Jk

 

[bazelio]

A couple peculiarities I noted with the small woofer line array: One was extreme excursion even when the musical content didn't have any bass to speak of. E.g during female vocals. I've got to wonder where the crossover is (and why). Secondly, I calculated surface area on the back of a napkin and going off memory, there is less total surface area in the line array "woofer" combination than in two 15" woofers.

Subjectively, I didn't see the new design as an improvement over the old and in fact somewhat of a regression. But that's me. And more objectively, I just don't want extreme woofer excursion when I'm looking for undistorted, textured bass. And I feel strongly that a line array isn't capable of the same performance as larger fewer drivers. But again, that's just me.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

A couple peculiarities I noted with the small woofer line array: One was extreme excursion even when the musical content didn't have any bass to speak of. E.g during female vocals. I've got to wonder where the crossover is (and why). Secondly, I calculated surface area on the back of a napkin and going off memory, there is less total surface area in the line array "woofer" combination than in two 15" woofers.

did you observe vinyl playback excursion verses digital playback excursion (there was zero observable excursion with digital)?

Subjectively, I didn't see the new design as an improvement over the old and in fact somewhat of a regression. But that's me. And more objectively, I just don't want extreme woofer excursion when I'm looking for undistorted, textured bass. And I feel strongly that a line array isn't capable of the same performance as larger fewer drivers. But again, that's just me.

visual dot connecting, verses actual performance is always a conundrum.

 

[bazelio]

Mike, yeah, it was always vinyl playback in that room while I was listening. I didn't even notice that there was a DAC, now that you mention it.

 

[spiritofmusic]

This $360k price point similar to Alsyvox Rafaellos, I wonder if potential customers will look to hear both.

 

[Solypsa]

Talking to Kevin Malmgren, the EA designer, the EA SYSTEM can get reproduce frequencies to ‘DC’ depending. Easily into the single digits. I believe it.

Interesting decision. Not saying I know better! but unsure what value there is below say 10hz.

Always cool to see someone pushing the limits tho.

Any idea what spl limits are at 30hz?

 

[bazelio]

Interesting decision. Not saying I know better! but unsure what value there is below say 10hz.

Always cool to see someone pushing the limits tho.

Any idea what spl limits are at 30hz?

I'm also not saying I know better. And I'd love to hear from the designer. But intuitively, I dont understand the motivation. It seems like a complex problem to ensure that the individual soundwaves produced by an array of small drivers combine constructively without interference or phase cancellations. And why? My ears tell me that the EA line array hasn't solved any obvious problems with previous designs. Color me confused.

 

[Gregadd]

What is the point of this post? To be sure that this nasty comment gets the attention of people and controversy because it refers to the WAMM, that is known to have been a case of success in the high-end?



Please give us the full context of this sentence of David WIlson. He is also known to have said a lot more of interesting things in his book "Life in the Rearview Mirror" https://www.wilsonaudio.com/pdf/Life in the Reveiw Mirror-web.pdf



Can you tell us what you call "the demographics for WAMM purchasers" ? Their income, age, country, race or religion?

1. I don't see anything nasty. Perhaps you are overly sensitive.
a.i do not know if the WAMM is a financial
Success. For all we know it could be operating at a loss and is supported by the rest of the line.
b. I concede it is a critical success. It has sold more than I th?ought.
c. I find it strange you are offended at the suggestion that someone would purchase. It a flagship product merely for ptesrirge. I hink it happens frequently.
2.i can't think of of a weaker rebuttal tha than he was taken out of context. Feel free to put in context. It seems clear on its'face too me.
3. Again the definition of demographics seems prettyI think you know

Specifically. I would be interested in financial standiing,prior audiophile history and circumstances of purchase.
A neophyte with he "scrillac "could start at the top. That would be unusua.l

 

[LL21]

late last night i got home after a leisurely drive up the left coast from the show in Costa Mesa. it was nice to be retired and not in a hurry.

debatable whether the larger drivers with less excursion are more or less precise than more smaller drivers given equal or greater air moving ability of more smaller drivers. according to Kevin the new design is more capable, not less. my ears tell me he is the most credible speaker designer i know of.

i would be buying the SYSTEM 9, not the SYSTEM 7. working harder? no. only that due to the physics of driver alignment, and the advantages of the new shape, these smaller drivers have domes, not cones. so driver movement is more visually apparent.

at the show there were comments about the apparent visual (remember domes, not cones) pumping of the sub tower drivers, causing listeners to assume there is a high level of distortion going on, or some other 'problem. the issue is

(1) the extreme deep bass response of the SYSTEM 7 speaker. it can produce frequencies to 'DC', lower than 1 hz,

(2) with vinyl and less than perfectly flat pressings there are going to be subsonic odd frequencies coming through the signal path. normally the speakers will not be able to 'go there' in any way, shape or form. but the SYSTEM can absolutely 'go there' how well it goes there depends on which SYSTEM implementation (5/7/9) is acquired. there was zero of this visual pumping with digital as it does not contain any of this subsonic content, only with the vinyl,

(3) the only downside to this low frequency capability is system power grid and amplifier headroom. at the show the first day (new show location, strange room, lots of details to work through) you had one 15 amp circuit powering the whole system. then Saturday two more 15 amp circuits were brought in to assist. but when vinyl was played you still had the lights flicker a bit. so a considerable lack of power grid headroom did blunt the excellence of the vinyl. in my room i have 70 amp service to my system with -5- 20 amp circuits feeding just my amplification. and with a SYSTEM 9 i would have 6 amps instead of 4 for just the bass under 50 hz so the excursion of the 24 drivers would be much less.

(4) Herve (darTZeel---preamp and cartridges), Joel Durand (tonearms), and Kevin Malmgren (speakers) were discussing the cause and effect of the extreme low frequencies. what were the slopes of the internal subsonic filters of the dart pre? what setting should the speaker subsonic speaker be set at? what was the new 'LE' version of the Durand tonearm and darTZeel prototype cartridges contributing to these very low frequencies? i'm not the answer guy for these questions. when you push envelopes stuff happens.

yes. but it's 50% more.

yes, 8 feet tall, easily fits in my room.

Thanks, Mike. Very interesting that one could get 8' tall 4-tower here and maintain most of the qualities of the 6-tower pair in 2/3 the footprint. And from the looks of it, the speakers are quite narrow, so the combined footprint of each channel would probably be quite close a single pair of XLFs.

 

[microstrip]

1. I don't see anything nasty. Perhaps you are overly sensitive.

This is a thread about "New Evolution Acoustics "SYSTEM" Speakers paired with Dartzeel" . Bringing the WAMMs, a speaker I have listened with some care and posted about in WBF to denigrate audiophiles who own expensive gear to the thread makes me sensitive.

a.i do not know if the WAMM is a financial
Success. For all we know it could be operating at a loss and is supported by the rest of the line.

Perhaps, but this is WBF , not what an ET told me last night ...

b. I concede it is a critical success. It has sold more than I th?ought.

Ok, overall WAMM was a success. I have listened to the speaker, I am not astonished for it, considering the current social economical trends of the world.

c. I find it strange you are offended at the suggestion that someone would purchase. It a flagship product merely for ptesrirge. I hink it happens frequently.

No, many people who have a lot of money have great taste and culture. We do not have testimonies of WAMM owners, but I followed many who had XLFs. They were experts in the sense they loved music, and although some they were not "informed" audiophiles, they were knowledgeable enough to know in whom they could trust to assemble their systems.

Surely there are a few people who buy just for status - usually they make a lot of noise and surely get the attention of the mob on Youtube.

2.i can't think of of a weaker rebuttal tha than he was taken out of context. Feel free to put in context. It seems clear on its'face too me.

No, you posted the sentence, you should provide the reference. It is how these things work.

3. Again the definition of demographics seems prettyI think you know

Specifically. I would be interested in financial standiing,prior audiophile history and circumstances of purchase.
A neophyte with he "scrillac "could start at the top. That would be unusua.l

Well, I can help you with facts,. Wilson Audio targeted WAMMs to Alexandria/XLF owners. Wilson Audio dealers invited people owning them to listen to the WAMMs at the Wilson Audio factory. I got an invitation to visit them, but declined it as I do not consider spending such amount in a speakers. Later I listened to the WAMM, and I can assure you if it was not for the price I would own them - I reported the session in WBF.

This is public information, known since long. And no, I do not know if any one robbed a bank or killed his father in law to buy the WAMMs ...

 

[Pokey77]

Astonishing clarity in the 20hz - 70hz region to my ears from the SYSTEM 7.

-8- passive 7” mid woofers per side (cover 50hz-350hz) in the main towers seemed to me to have tip top clarity and precision. Pushed them hard just now for a 45 minute session. Never broke a sweat.

It’s all a typical EA seamless presentation. No cabinets drivers or electronics. Perceived.

Talking to Kevin Malmgren, the EA designer, the EA SYSTEM can get reproduce frequencies to ‘DC’ depending. Easily into the single digits. I believe it. Passive tower mid to upper 90’s in efficiency.

The show system was handicapped the first day by only having a single 15 amp circuit to use. Mid day Saturday jury rigged 2 other 15 amp circuits and that helped.

Today Sunday the best sound. Prototype speaker, prototype cartridge, strange room at a new show location. Normal stuff.

I can vouch for this as I was there. Sunday was, to me, vastly better than Saturday. The sound was not just better, it was very significantly better. Or in my more commonly used vernacular, amazingly supreme and so, so real.

edited to add YMMV and IMHO.

 

[Gregadd]

I only have one thing to say.
If you don't know the context you have no basis to claim it is out of context
That burden is on you to prove it.
If you are claiming he never said it that is a differemm matter. By saying it was out of context I suspect you know he did