Soulution 701 Mono's VS Boulder 2150 Monos

[joey_v]

How can you answer that question?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I am wondering what is a solid stage "benchmark" amp that people always measure against when new SS amps come out? None? Is the newer bigger more expensive one always be the one to measure against the former smaller less expensive ones. And the bigger newer normally wins?

as an owner of a solid state 'uber' amp i don't view anything as a particular reference to consider a 'solid state' benchmark. there are multiple schools of thought and directions to choose. for instance, many view the Relentless as a top choice. the one time i heard it i was underwhelmed. but i discount that experience and my mind is open to possibilities with it. i think large solid state amps are mostly telling you about the system......and getting out of the way if they are doing their job.

by definition large powerful solid state amps are going to be found in large scale systems which will vary wildly in degrees of maturation, or lack thereof. so if they are clear windows then it can look ugly. at shows rarely will that type amp be sufficiently given an elegant context. you plunk down a big brute amp it needs the system to be accommodated to it.....to hear it's best.

mostly newer and bigger is better, but not always. and garbage in, garbage out.

and note; that almost all these comments are now at least 2-3 years, and mostly 5 years old.

 

[bonzo75]

I am wondering what is a solid stage "benchmark" amp that people always measure against when new SS amps come out? None? Is the newer bigger more expensive one always be the one to measure against the former smaller less expensive ones. And the bigger newer normally wins?

In SS you do get benefits as you move up the price chain. And there are different sounds, like spectral and Soulution and boulder and CH being clean and fast, Vitus with the class A flow, and dagostino, audionet, Dartzeel, are all different. And there bigger blocks better than smaller ones.

That's the other benefit of high efficiency. The very low watt amplifiers are so simple and then raw material costs therefore so much cheaper. Much easier and cheaper to audition. No real benefit in going expensive like Kondo

 

[howiebrou]

I am wondering what is a solid stage "benchmark" amp that people always measure against when new SS amps come out? None? Is the newer bigger more expensive one always be the one to measure against the former smaller less expensive ones. And the bigger newer normally wins?

For what it's worth I liked the older Mcintosh amps more than their new ones.

 

[Elliot G.]

For what it's worth I liked the older Mcintosh amps more than their new ones.

I know I will get crap for this but MC is not in the same universe sonically as those others mentioned.
Nice
Good
Excellent and
Extraordinary.
The last is a moving target as the state of the art is always being challenged.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I am wondering what is a solid stage "benchmark" amp that people always measure against when new SS amps come out? None? Is the newer bigger more expensive one always be the one to measure against the former smaller less expensive ones. And the bigger newer normally wins?

Yes , but i has to look better also .
People are not so easily fooled

 

[howiebrou]

I know I will get crap for this but MC is not in the same universe sonically as those others mentioned.
Nice
Good
Excellent and
Extraordinary.
The last is a moving target as the state of the art is always being challenged.

I understand, I was referring more to the newer is better comment, that’s all.

I did like my MC2000 a lot though...

 

[Alrainbow]

I know I will get crap for this but MC is not in the same universe sonically as those others mentioned.
Nice
Good
Excellent and
Extraordinary.
The last is a moving target as the state of the art is always being challenged.

I remember when you sold McIntosh Elliot , you were big on Mac with Nola ..!

You Thought very highly of them ...!

 

[Elliot G.]

I remember when you sold McIntosh Elliot , you were big on Mac with Nola ..!

You Thought very highly of them ...!

So it still isn't in the same universe as those mentioned. I did like the Mc 2301 tube amplifiers and sold a few of them. MC SS is and I will stick to my words not in the same universe as CH , Soulution, D'agostino and others. When you are a dealer you still need to sell product and survive. I said there are various different groups and you can't sell just the extraordinary since not everyone can afford that. I wont get into a pissing match with you nor have you question my credibility Al, perhaps if you listened to some contemporary electronics you might understand. Your electronics is over 20 years old! I resent when people put words in my mouth and especially when they twist the truth.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Would it also not be that dealers just don t like the hassle regarding tubes .
With solid state its usually a clean sale and thats it , with tubes its likely to be a bit more complicated with certain brands

 

[Alrainbow]

So it still isn't in the same universe as those mentioned. I did like the Mc 2301 tube amplifiers and sold a few of them. MC SS is and I will stick to my words not in the same universe as CH , Soulution, D'agostino and others. When you are a dealer you still need to sell product and survive. I said there are various different groups and you can't sell just the extraordinary since not everyone can afford that. I wont get into a pissing match with you nor have you question my credibility Al, perhaps if you listened to some contemporary electronics you might understand. Your electronics is over 20 years old! I resent when people put words in my mouth and especially when they twist the truth.

Slow Down Elliot ,

Im not trying to or putting words in your mouth nor am I saying or even attempting to say Mac gear is in the same league as CH , DAG etc , Im only reminding you how well you thought of Mac gear in the past and yes it was the tube amps and not SS ..

I also don't see how the age of my electronics have to do with “your “ Mac statement , thats pretty childish right there . when you sold them you thought them Highly , same for other gear you sold like Spectral , WA and Genesis ..

Quite understandable product today may have moved on to another level ..

No need to get raspy , no harm was intended ...!

 

[Elliot G.]

Slow Down Elliot ,

Im not trying to or putting words in your mouth nor am I saying or even attempting to say Mac gear is in the same league as CH , DAG etc , Im only reminding you how well you thought of Mac gear in the past and yes it was the tube amps and not SS ..

I also don't see how the age of my electronics have to do with “your “ Mac statement , thats pretty childish right there . when you sold them you thought them Highly , same for other gear you sold like Spectral , WA and Genesis ..

Quite understandable product today may have moved on to another level ..

No need to get raspy , no harm was intended ...!

Well I took it like that and if I am wrong it taking it like that I apologize however it is many years latter and those products have been superseded with significantly better ones. No matter what I or anyone else likes in the past the needle is continually moving and will continue to move. Ten years ago my experience and my circle was different as well as what is now available.
I was a tube lover and owned many different versions of tubes from various companies, Ten years ago IMO there were not SS designs that were anywhere near the sonic quality of whats out there today. Just think that Levinson and Krell ruled the audio world and today they have virtually disappeared along with Infinity from the audio landscape. I expect ten years in the future things again will look very differently once again.

 

[Alrainbow]

Fair Enuff and again I’m not saying today isnt superior to past SOTA greats , so i will reiterate.

If something was truly Sota in the past it will produce reasonable sota performance today, not everything sota claimed today beats Sota of yesteryear, well not in my limited experience of listening and comparing them ..

Is Sota superior today ? All parameters say they are or should be , yet how many hairs are we splitting between 10yr old Darts and new , is the previous versions suddenly not Sota anymore .

Currently we are still dragging diamond nails thru vinyl and listening to 50 yr old designed tube amps and raving .



My 2cents ..!

 

[chuck]

Very few current amps can match a Boulder 2060, that was introduced about 20 years ago.

https://soundstageultra.com/index.php/features-menu/opinion-menu/805-jeff-buys-a-new-used-amp

 

[Alrainbow]

Yep , Can believe That too ....!

 

[Elliot G.]

And there you have it another "ONE MAN"S SURVEY"
The internet is such a great place to learn the facts.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Very few current amps can match a Boulder 2060, that was introduced about 20 years ago.

https://soundstageultra.com/index.php/features-menu/opinion-menu/805-jeff-buys-a-new-used-amp

how can anyone disagree with such an open ended claim? i know there were reasons people did not choose 2060's then, and why they would not choose it now. i know i have my own reasons. i'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with it, only it's not my preference. but for what it does well, it is on top of the heap. but it's a mistake to claim any universal approval for that perspective.

and i do agree that there is a great value proposition with higher quality 15-20 year old solid state amplifiers. of course, according to taste and expectations. my choice would be an amp i purchased in 2004 and used in my system until 2012. that is still a current product, the darTZeel NHB-108. last year a Mk2 was finally introduced. the 108 is still my all time second favorite amp. now 17 years old.

i suppose i could say that very few current amps can match the dart 108....for what i like about it. the 108 was $16k back in 2004, not $44k....btw.

 

[Alrainbow]

There you have it , now a two man survey

 

[chuck]

how can anyone disagree with such an open ended claim? i know there were reasons people did not choose 2060's then, and why they would not choose it now. i know i have my own reasons. i'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with it, only it's not my preference. but for what it does well, it is on top of the heap. but it's a mistake to claim any universal approval for that perspective.

and i do agree that there is a great value proposition with higher quality 15-20 year old solid state amplifiers. of course, according to taste and expectations. my choice would be an amp i purchased in 2004 and used in my system until 2012. that is still a current product, the darTZeel NHB-108. last year a Mk2 was finally introduced. the 108 is still my all time second favorite amp. now 17 years old.

i suppose i could say that very few current amps can match the dart 108....for what i like about it. the 108 was $16k back in 2004, not $44k....btw.

dartZeel and Boulder are polar opposites. As you don't choose Boulder, I can't imagine getting a dartZeel. dartZeel's philosophy: "Listen first, measure afterwards" But why even go through all the bother of measuring if you don't care about measurements?

I heard the hype and checked out the dartZeel in 2009 then bought the 2060, brand new, kept it until 2018. Preferences in this hobby do vary widely. I don't think the dartZeel does the amp job (post #3) nearly as well as the 2060 and apparently does not try. But if the amp's job is to sound the way some people prefer, then the 2060 is not in that game.

https://www.soundstageultra.com/ind...on-menu/901-my-most-controversial-review-ever

 

[Mike Lavigne]

dartZeel and Boulder are polar opposites. As you don't choose Boulder, I can't imagine getting a dartZeel. dartZeel's philosophy: "Listen first, measure afterwards" But why even go through all the bother of measuring if you don't care about measurements?

I heard the hype and checked out the dartZeel in 2009 then bought the 2060, brand new, kept it until 2018. Preferences in this hobby do vary widely. I don't think the dartZeel does the amp job (post #3) nearly as well as the 2060 and apparently does not try. But if the amp's job is to sound the way some people prefer, then the 2060 is not in that game.

https://www.soundstageultra.com/ind...on-menu/901-my-most-controversial-review-ever

we agree completely.

and i celebrate that we all find our truth as it pleases us. i'm more of a guy who traveled from big solid state (ML #33, #32 + WP 6.0) to OTL tubes + very coherent and relatively easy to drive speaker (Tenor OTL + Kharma Exquisite) back in 2001 and that has been my music reproduction reference since then. the Boulder doubles down on my ML-WP direction. the darTZeel carries on with my OTL/ultra coherent direction. i want an amp that has a first watt that is magical, minimum pieces in the signal path, zero global feedback. like tubes, but with the advantages of solid state. with flow and liquidity. that is not the Boulder.

btw; the marketplace voted strongly and for many years that the dart 108 was a winning design. but no doubt it's not everyone's idea of the perfect amplifier. and clearly still not Soundstage's. for an alternate review perspective, read the last 2 paragraphs of this review.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/boulder-amplifiers-2150-monoblock-power-amplifier

i could absolutely put together a system with the 2060 and any number of very entertaining speaker systems. and i sure would not care how hard that speaker system was to drive, the 2060 could do it with it's hands tied behind it's back. if that is what is most important, the 2060 is for you. and that system would deliver the goods in it's own way.