Kuzma Stabi R compared to a Garrard 301/401??

[kozzmo]

Has anyone directly compared or at lease heard both of these tables?? I have a 401, that has been modded with a new bearing and platter. It has been my main table for 20 years now. I am VERY familiar with the idler sound having heard many now....I like A LOT but I do find it a bit fatiguing at times....I previously asked a question here about people moving on from idlers mainly because my 401 needs to be re-done, the motor is dying, the top plate is sagging, the pulley is worn....so it's going to need a total over haul, ie $$$. So I am looking at moving on or at least adding....The Stabi R looks the part but I have not spent ANY time with a belt drive in 2 decades....so any experience with Kuzma vs a Garrard would be great to hear!! Thanks...

 

[Davehg]

I spent time listening to the Stabi R recently, which used a 4 Point 11 arm attached to the arm wing. I'm coming from a VPI Prime with some mods, and I wanted the next rung as a proper reference table - my phono preamp and cartridge were significantly upgraded and I felt the VPI was holding me back.

I've eyed the Garrard 301 as well as Lenco, and spent considerable time looking at various options. The Garrards are lovely and visually gorgeous too with the optional third party plinths. They’ve all sounded nice, but as you note, they have a certain sound.

What made me pause was the upkeep and options - I've spent loads of $$$ restoring many vintage cars/bikes and the Garrard reminded me of the cost and challenge of dealing with older gear, as good as these tables sound and perform. The price to get into a 301 or 401 and bring it up to snuff, plus support it long term, made me rethink what I was after for my "end game turntable".

The Kuzma impressed me with its engineering and build quality, and the Stabi R's design allows for long term compatibility with whatever I might choose to pursue on the arm front. For the cost of entry, I feel there is a lot of great engineering and value, and the ease of swapping tonearms appealed to my desire to play with optional multiple tone arms, similarly the 4Pt11’s head shell design appeals to my desire of swapping cartridges with minimal pain. Their belt design seems so much more advanced than the belt setups on other tables - while I bought a second belt I’m not planning on needing to change it out.

I pulled the trigger on the Kuzma with a 4Pt11 arm mounted on the arm wing, and added an extra arm balcony and a modified Jelco arm. Overall it was a bit more than I anticipated spending, but I feel I have a table that will be my last purchase. I also added the four optional feet that are used on Kuzma’s platform - the Stabi R’s feet mount right on them (there is even an indented cup that seems tailor made for the Stabi R’s pointed feet.

I did sweat a bit over choosing the lovely walnut plinth (which limits the use of multiple tonearms) and ultimately chose not to include it - I think the arm wing is a more stable mount for the arm, and I can always change my mind later and add it should I choose, but the choice of being able to use two tone arms is appealing for now.

 

[kozzmo]

I spent time listening to the Stabi R recently, which used a 4 Point 11 arm attached to the arm wing. I'm coming from a VPI Prime with some mods, and I wanted the next rung as a proper reference table - my phono preamp and cartridge were significantly upgraded and I felt the VPI was holding me back.

I've eyed the Garrard 301 as well as Lenco, and spent considerable time looking at various options. The Garrards are lovely and visually gorgeous too with the optional third party plinths. They’ve all sounded nice, but as you note, they have a certain sound.

What made me pause was the upkeep and options - I've spent loads of $$$ restoring many vintage cars/bikes and the Garrard reminded me of the cost and challenge of dealing with older gear, as good as these tables sound and perform. The price to get into a 301 or 401 and bring it up to snuff, plus support it long term, made me rethink what I was after for my "end game turntable".

The Kuzma impressed me with its engineering and build quality, and the Stabi R's design allows for long term compatibility with whatever I might choose to pursue on the arm front. For the cost of entry, I feel there is a lot of great engineering and value, and the ease of swapping tonearms appealed to my desire to play with optional multiple tone arms, similarly the 4Pt11’s head shell design appeals to my desire of swapping cartridges with minimal pain. Their belt design seems so much more advanced than the belt setups on other tables - while I bought a second belt I’m not planning on needing to change it out.

I pulled the trigger on the Kuzma with a 4Pt11 arm mounted on the arm wing, and added an extra arm balcony and a modified Jelco arm. Overall it was a bit more than I anticipated spending, but I feel I have a table that will be my last purchase. I also added the four optional feet that are used on Kuzma’s platform - the Stabi R’s feet mount right on them (there is even an indented cup that seems tailor made for the Stabi R’s pointed feet.

I did sweat a bit over choosing the lovely walnut plinth (which limits the use of multiple tonearms) and ultimately chose not to include it - I think the arm wing is a more stable mount for the arm, and I can always change my mind later and add it should I choose, but the choice of being able to use two tone arms is appealing for now.

That bit on up keep and options is what has got me. I love the table and don't see every not having it but there are just too many options and tweaking...the kuzma seems to be a set it and forget it tank. How do you compare the sound of the two??

 

[No Regrets]

I did sweat a bit over choosing the lovely walnut plinth (which limits the use of multiple tonearms)

Welcome to the forum

I was able to spend quite a bit of time with the Stabi R with walnut plinth with the Reference 313VTA during the 3 day AXPONA show last year near Chicago. I thought the walnut plinth was gorgeous... but I've always been a sucker for natural woods.

The sound was very engaging, no matter what the genre of music being played. I have read somewhere on the forums, that there is now a way to mount an additional tonearm on the wood based Stabi R. I'm sorry that I can't remember which forum or thread. Did you happen to contact Kuzma directly and ask if you could have two arms on the wooden base?

In any case, congratulations on the new table and arm! It looks as though you have a great system. I can imagine that if gives great musical enjoyment!

Best wishes,
Don

 

[kozzmo]

Welcome to the forum

I was able to spend quite a bit of time with the Stabi R with walnut plinth with the Reference 313VTA during the 3 day AXPONA show last year near Chicago. I thought the walnut plinth was gorgeous... but I've always been a sucker for natural woods.

The sound was very engaging, no matter what the genre of music being played. I have read somewhere on the forums, that there is now a way to mount an additional tonearm on the wood based Stabi R. I'm sorry that I can't remember which forum or thread. Did you happen to contact Kuzma directly and ask if you could have two arms on the wooden base?

In any case, congratulations on the new table and arm! It looks as though you have a great system. I can imagine that if gives great musical enjoyment!

Best wishes,
Don

There is an armboard option that screws onto the top of the R that will allow you to mount an arm on the walnut plinth version.

 

[adrianywu]

I spent time listening to the Stabi R recently, which used a 4 Point 11 arm attached to the arm wing. I'm coming from a VPI Prime with some mods, and I wanted the next rung as a proper reference table - my phono preamp and cartridge were significantly upgraded and I felt the VPI was holding me back.

I've eyed the Garrard 301 as well as Lenco, and spent considerable time looking at various options. The Garrards are lovely and visually gorgeous too with the optional third party plinths. They’ve all sounded nice, but as you note, they have a certain sound.

What made me pause was the upkeep and options - I've spent loads of $$$ restoring many vintage cars/bikes and the Garrard reminded me of the cost and challenge of dealing with older gear, as good as these tables sound and perform. The price to get into a 301 or 401 and bring it up to snuff, plus support it long term, made me rethink what I was after for my "end game turntable".

The Kuzma impressed me with its engineering and build quality, and the Stabi R's design allows for long term compatibility with whatever I might choose to pursue on the arm front. For the cost of entry, I feel there is a lot of great engineering and value, and the ease of swapping tonearms appealed to my desire to play with optional multiple tone arms, similarly the 4Pt11’s head shell design appeals to my desire of swapping cartridges with minimal pain. Their belt design seems so much more advanced than the belt setups on other tables - while I bought a second belt I’m not planning on needing to change it out.

I pulled the trigger on the Kuzma with a 4Pt11 arm mounted on the arm wing, and added an extra arm balcony and a modified Jelco arm. Overall it was a bit more than I anticipated spending, but I feel I have a table that will be my last purchase. I also added the four optional feet that are used on Kuzma’s platform - the Stabi R’s feet mount right on them (there is even an indented cup that seems tailor made for the Stabi R’s pointed feet.

I did sweat a bit over choosing the lovely walnut plinth (which limits the use of multiple tonearms) and ultimately chose not to include it - I think the arm wing is a more stable mount for the arm, and I can always change my mind later and add it should I choose, but the choice of being able to use two tone arms is appealing for now.

Bear in mind the Garrard 301/401 were designed for professional users; radio stations and studios, and secondarily well heeled audiophiles. I have been running a 301 for 25 years, and it will outlast me and probably my son !

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I spent time listening to the Stabi R recently, which used a 4 Point 11 arm attached to the arm wing. I'm coming from a VPI Prime with some mods, and I wanted the next rung as a proper reference table - my phono preamp and cartridge were significantly upgraded and I felt the VPI was holding me back.

I've eyed the Garrard 301 as well as Lenco, and spent considerable time looking at various options. The Garrards are lovely and visually gorgeous too with the optional third party plinths. They’ve all sounded nice, but as you note, they have a certain sound.

What made me pause was the upkeep and options - I've spent loads of $$$ restoring many vintage cars/bikes and the Garrard reminded me of the cost and challenge of dealing with older gear, as good as these tables sound and perform. The price to get into a 301 or 401 and bring it up to snuff, plus support it long term, made me rethink what I was after for my "end game turntable".

The Kuzma impressed me with its engineering and build quality, and the Stabi R's design allows for long term compatibility with whatever I might choose to pursue on the arm front. For the cost of entry, I feel there is a lot of great engineering and value, and the ease of swapping tonearms appealed to my desire to play with optional multiple tone arms, similarly the 4Pt11’s head shell design appeals to my desire of swapping cartridges with minimal pain. Their belt design seems so much more advanced than the belt setups on other tables - while I bought a second belt I’m not planning on needing to change it out.

I pulled the trigger on the Kuzma with a 4Pt11 arm mounted on the arm wing, and added an extra arm balcony and a modified Jelco arm. Overall it was a bit more than I anticipated spending, but I feel I have a table that will be my last purchase. I also added the four optional feet that are used on Kuzma’s platform - the Stabi R’s feet mount right on them (there is even an indented cup that seems tailor made for the Stabi R’s pointed feet.

I did sweat a bit over choosing the lovely walnut plinth (which limits the use of multiple tonearms) and ultimately chose not to include it - I think the arm wing is a more stable mount for the arm, and I can always change my mind later and add it should I choose, but the choice of being able to use two tone arms is appealing for now.

A great choice 'Davehg' for choosing a Kuzma Stabi R and a Kuzma 4Point 11".
The Stabi R is a great TT and I think in the Kuzma range, currently the best bang for the buck TT
The 4Point 11" is legendary and a fantastic arm to set-up and use.
What colour did you go for ? (some photos would be nice ;-) )

 

[Tangram]

A great choice 'Davehg' for choosing a Kuzma Stabi R and a Kuzma 4Point 11".
The Stabi R is a great TT and I think in the Kuzma range, currently the best bang for the buck TT
The 4Point 11" is legendary and a fantastic arm to set-up and use.
What colour did you go for ? (some photos would be nice ;-) )

I own a Stabi R but then, my turntable is in an equipment closet, out of view. Butt ugly. The turntable equivalent of an aircraft carrier. But the sound? The engineering? The reliability? Off-the-charts fantastic.

I love the look of idlers swaddled in exotic woods. But I like modern engineering a whole lot more.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I own a Stabi R but then, my turntable is in an equipment closet, out of view. Butt ugly. The turntable equivalent of an aircraft carrier. But the sound? The engineering? The reliability? Off-the-charts fantastic.

I love the look of idlers swaddled in exotic woods. But I like modern engineering a whole lot more.

The Stabi R doesn't need to look like an 'aircraft carrier' as you put 'Tangram'. You can choose the much smaller arm boards as 'kozzmo' has shown in the photo above or just have one arm mounted to the plinth for the wood version of the Stabi R !

 

[Tangram]

The Stabi R doesn't need to look like an 'aircraft carrier' as you put 'Tangram'. You can choose the much smaller arm boards as 'kozzmo' has shown in the photo above or just have one arm mounted to the plinth for the wood version of the Stabi R !

Fair enough. I bought mine from a friend, already with the flight deck installed

 

[kozzmo]

I pulled the trigger on a demo Stabi R last week, will pair it with the 4p9" arm...should have it here in the next week or so...can't wait. My Garrard 401 will be given some rest while I decide what to direction to go with a rebuild on that deck...looking forward to hearing a well regarded belt drive table in my system...

 

[Davehg]

I’ll post pic when I have the setup ready, as I am awaiting some pieces including a new turntable stand.

i have seen pictures some of the walnut plinths with an extra arm installed on the oval shaped arm board that attaches to the rear left corner of the Kuzma, so I believe it can be done. I ordered the arm balcony that attaches to the rear left side to hold the Jelco arm, and the arm wing on the right side to hold the 4Pt11. It took me a while to decide on silver ( I debated black or other colors) as most of my other gear is silver too.

i wasn’t able to directly compare the tables in one setting or with the same cartridges so take my comments accordingly. The aesthetic of the Garrard and Lenco tables with a solid wood plinth is beautiful, but the engineering of the Kuzma, especially the arm and ease of VTA and azimuth adjustments, made the Kuzma attractive.

Kozzmo I’d love to hear your impressions when you get the chance. Either way you win.

 

[kozzmo]

Kozzmo I’d love to hear your impressions when you get the chance. Either way you win.

Will do, I should have it here and set up by the end of the week

 

[kozzmo]

The eagle has landed....a slightly used Kuzma Stabi R from Steve at SOS Audio in New Hampshire...very nice guy to deal with and super helpful...

I've been a full on 100% Idler Wheel guy for 21 years. My current idler is Garrard 401 that has been modded and sounds very "hifi-modern"....but it keeps needing work and I am ready to stop messing with it. So I got a Kuzma belt drive TANK, a set it and forget it type of table. The plan at the moment is keep both but I am not married to that idea. The Kuzma does have the attraction of easily adding another tonearm if I feel so inclined to go that route.

After listening to the Kuzma I was very surprised that the two tables sound more similar than different. Extremely similar, I was shocked but also glad, it reinforced that I was not crazy to have listened to a "vintage" table for 20 years. The modded Garrard is an real audiophile piece of gear. Both tables are very big and bold sounding, both have killer dynamics and drive. Both sound almost identical with the same arm and cartridge. However there are differences as one would expect. The Kuzma has that belt drive ease, even with the dynamics and drive, it's there. That slightly rounded edge to the piano and bass that the Garrard does not have. A piano chord can cut like a knife on a Garrard...a little less so on the Kuzma. What I don't hear with the Kuzma is fatigue so far I can just listen and listen and listen. The Garrard can overwhelm sometimes with certain records and get fatiguing and slightly harsh, too in your face and too ruthless with poor recordings. More records sound ok on the Kuzma than the Garrard. On the Garrard they either sound amazing or not so hot. The Kuzma kinda sorts everything out a little more evenhandedly and makes more records more enjoyable. This is something I remember about my last belt drive and something that has been sorely missed. There is more inner detail with the Kuzma, that's what they say with belt drives and I heard it in spades. It took several records to hear it but when I started to notice it I could not NOT hear it. Air, space around a vocalist, the movement on a bass string, just gobs of micro dynamics that I totally miss with the Garrard. It was a fun night!

So thats round one. They both do many similar things but they both do some things differently. I very much like what I am hearing from the Kuzma though. Very eager to keep listening.

 

[Davehg]

Thanks for posting. I’m excited to setup my Kuzma, and your impressions make me happy I went with it vs a range of other options (most cheaper) that I explored. I also suspect based on your comments that it will be big improvement over the VPI prime, which I’ll keep for the Leben/LS3/5a system.

 

[mtemur]

which I’ll keep for the Leben/LS3/5a system.

Wow, great combo if it’s Leben cs300. Happy listening.

I also suspect based on your comments that it will be big improvement over the VPI prime

No comparison, Kuzma turntable and 4P9 is hands down winner IMHO.

 

[Tangram]

Congratulations! Wishing you many happy years of spinning tunes on your new ride. One thing I found after living with the Stabi R for a few months is that it’s an absolute joy to use. Startup time is almost like a direct drive, everything falls to hand just so, and I felt there was no need to research after-market mats. I check the speed every couple of months and there’s been zero drift.

While not cheap by any means, the Stabi R/4Point combo stands tall as a true high-end bargain, given its high performance and flexibility.

 

[kozzmo]

Thanks for posting. I’m excited to setup my Kuzma, and your impressions make me happy I went with it vs a range of other options (most cheaper) that I explored. I also suspect based on your comments that it will be big improvement over the VPI prime, which I’ll keep for the Leben/LS3/5a system.

As far as the VPI prime, I have never heard one but having heard several belt drives over the years the Kuzma has the most drive or force to the sound..add in that little bit of belt drive ease and to my ears so far it strikes a wonderful balance between idler, direct drive and belt drives...I am also loving the push button aspect. Press the button and it goes, press it again and it stops in no time. Good luck and post your findings!!

 

[kozzmo]

One thing I found after living with the Stabi R for a few months is that it’s an absolute joy to use. Startup time is almost like a direct drive, everything falls to hand just so, and I felt there was no need to research after-market mats. I check the speed every couple of months and there’s been zero drift.

I am loving the direct drive like push button thing....and if I never research, DIY or buy another turntable mat it will be worth every penny that I spent on this table!!

 

[Davehg]

Wow, great combo if it’s Leben cs300. Happy listening.

it’s a CS600x, with NOS tubes, and sounds wonderful. I find the LS3/5a likes a bit more power. Phono pre amp is Leben too - it’s a nice mate in that system though I prefer the ModWright phono overall.