PCM to DSD...the new PS Audio DAC

[Andre Marc]

It's a good thing my Lampizator and Playback Designs don't use chips.

And I believe (almost sure) neither does the Sonore exD and several others. I'm curious about the ifi iDSD too..but their literature
is hell to wade through.

 

[bmoura]

And I believe neither does the Sonore exD and several others. I'm curious about the ifi iDSD too..but their literature
is hell to wade through.

The iDSD units (Nano and Micro) use Burr Brown DACs chips. One in the Nano and two in the Micro.

 

[mojave]

`
The "jriver" link was updated as recently as this year - right in the "history".

The JRiver link is correct, but you are taking it completely out of context. When it says, "By default, DSD will be converted to PCM for playback" it means that this is the default setting in JRiver. Those that have DSD DAC's don't need to use the default setting and can instead bitstream as it says further down in the wiki: "It is possible to bitstream DSD to certain DACs. This bypasses the DSD to PCM conversion."

 

[Andre Marc]

The iDSD units (Nano and Micro) use Burr Brown DACs chips. One in the Nano and two in the Micro.

Here is what they say:

"Having a chipset able to play all formats would count for little if this was not all executed natively; without conversion from one format to another. Using trickle-down technology from AMR (who drafted the chipset code) to drive this Burr-Brown chipset, the original music format remains unchanged which is essential to attaining the zenith in high-end audio reproduction."

 

[Andre Marc]

The JRiver link is correct, but you are taking it completely out of context. When it says, "By default, DSD will be converted to PCM for playback" it means that this is the default setting in JRiver. Those that have DSD DAC's don't need to use the default setting and can instead bitstream as it says further down in the wiki: "It is possible to bitstream DSD to certain DACs. This bypasses the DSD to PCM conversion."

...Which is exactly what I have done...

This poster, while trying to prove a point, has quoted and linked out of context numerous times.

 

[bmoura]

Well if you can get the PS Audio, I'll let you borrow the Lampizator.....

That's an interesting comparison. They had a setup like that for PCM recently at the SF Bay Area Head-Fi Meet up in Burlingame. DirectStream vs. Lampizator Level 5 over headphones.
The consensus from the attendees was the Lampizator was the "winner".

Too bad the DSD switch was broken on the Lampizator unit at the event. I would have liked to hear DSD downloads head-to-head DS vs. Lampi.
So far, both Bruce and Al indicate it's Lampizator over DirectStream. We will see what Ki has to say. The comparisons continue....

 

[bmoura]

Here is what they say:

"Having a chipset able to play all formats would count for little if this was not all executed natively; without conversion from one format to another. Using trickle-down technology from AMR (who drafted the chipset code) to drive this Burr-Brown chipset, the original music format remains unchanged which is essential to attaining the zenith in high-end audio reproduction."

True. iFi does make a point that they have separate conversion paths/approaches when handling DSD and PCM files in the Nano and Micro.

 

[Andre Marc]

True. iFi does make a point that they have separate conversion paths/approaches when handling DSD and PCM files in the Nano and Micro.

So would this qualify as true "native" DSD output to analog? I have both these units on their way for review.

 

[bmoura]

Well, is there an answer to the question above?

Yes. See the earlier comments in this thread from Al and Bruce Brown. Both say they prefer the Lampizator to the DirectStream.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

dsd explained

 

[Andre Marc]

dsd explained

Thanks Mike. A link I have long referenced. I think the debate here is how DAC, Music Server, and File Player designers are implementing
their DSD solutions. There is no doubt that some have rushed to market hack jobs so as to stamp their products "DSD Ready" otherwise
they are DOA. Some of led the path to technically sound implementation, but there is much confusion.

 

[j.phelan]

First, I didn't quote the jriver link - I *provided* it to readers, as they can take what they want from it.

And no out-of-context on John Atkinson. A slight misquote - but it's the same thing in the end.

What happened here is an audio reviewer was caught repeating something that *wasn't* true. Anyone that actually reads the technical-white papers on this subject would not assume that (certain) products are "bypassing" PCM conversion, in playback.

I brought this up in a thread called "DSD-only DACs, a survey" over at Audio Asylum. The technical guru of AMR posted in response and supported the fact.

Read it.

 

[Andre Marc]

First, I didn't "quote" the jriver link - I *provided* it to readers, as they can take what they want from it.

And no out-of-context on John Atkinson. A slight misquote - but it's the same thing in the end.

What happened here is an audio reviewer was caught repeating something that *wasn't* true. Anyone that actually reads the technical-white papers on this subject would not assume that (certain) products are "bypassing" PCM conversion, in playback.

I brought thisup in a thread called "DSD-only DACs, a survey" over at Audio Asylum. The technical guru of AMR posted in response and supported the fact.

Read it.

I did not get "caught" assuming anything. As Bruce pointed out, we all know there is more than one way to output DSD with a DAC, this was obvious.

The technical guru at AMR is the same fellow who designed the iFI products.

 

[Andre Marc]

First, I didn't quote the jriver link - I *provided* it to readers, as they can take what they want from it.

And no out-of-context on John Atkinson. A slight misquote - but it's the same thing in the end.

What happened here is an audio reviewer was caught repeating something that *wasn't* true. Anyone that actually reads the technical-white papers on this subject would not assume that (certain) products are "bypassing" PCM conversion, in playback.

I brought this up in a thread called "DSD-only DACs, a survey" over at Audio Asylum. The technical guru of AMR posted in response and supported the fact.

Read it.

I would ask you this, are you a fan of DSD?

 

[mauidan]

In case anyone is interested, Art Dudley's DirectStream review will be in the September issue of Stereophile.

 

[Andre Marc]

In case anyone is interested, Art Dudley's DirectStream review will be in the September issue of Stereophile.

I will be very interested. Dudley is a great, and the review won't be stuffed with techno geek speak, a la JA, it will be mostly about pure listening. We all
know Art is a tube and vinyl guy, so for sure I am eager to read it.

 

[j.phelan]

Marc said, in response to me, that "it isn't true" that (almost all) SACD players transcode to PCM.

THEY ALMOST ALL DO.

It's not that there's "more than one way to output DSD" - it's the ONLY way - for technical reasons.

A key difference - but he never explained it this way...

 

[tailspn]

Marc said, in response to me, that "it isn't true" that (almost all) SACD players transcode to PCM.

THEY ALMOST ALL DO.

Please define SACD player. Name a couple.

Then please define PCM.

 

[Orb]

tailspn please do not ruin my day; I love the forum conclusion reached that nearly all SACD/DSD is transcoded to PCM and also nearly all PCM DACs convert to SDM
So therefore we do not have "true" PCM or "true" DSD DACs
BTW not saying I agree with that but if we go by discussions on here that is the perspective/POV of quite a few it seems.
Thanks
Orb

 

[rbbert]

According to the manufacturers, at least Cary, Playback Designs and Oppo will all decode DSD directly to analog without PCM conversion. I'm sure there are others, those are just some that have come up in recent discussions.