Caesar - where did you hear the Magicos ? In what system ? I'm asking since you seem to have a wrong impression of this brand. Having heard the V2/M5/S1/S5/Q3/Q5 and TAD Reference/CR-1 my impression is the exact opposite.
When I first brought the S5 home for an extended audition (after having owned Wilson Sophia2/Sasha for 5 years) my first impression was that the S5 were soundng ... very dark. In my experience, the Magico tweeter manages to present a lot of details without soundng etched or hot - which I directly atribute to the design of the berilium tweeter, whose resonant freq lies 10-15k higher than competing designs. That gives it a certain grainless quality which is hard to find.
I had the same impression when I heard the new Rockports, which also sport the same Scan-Speak berilium tweeter.
Elbertoth,
It started a while back, when Valin first started calling Magico the best speaker. At that time, I, like many others still trusted him. So I went out and heard Magicos. To quote the famous Wendy’s commercial, my response was: “Where’s the beef?” "What’s so Magic?" Based on my experiences, it was a speaker that was engineered to perfectly execute the audiophile vocabulary, maybe as good as anything out there from that perspective. However, as much as it excelled at getting the individual elements right, it did not get the musical whole right – to my ears. I just could not let go and find that State of Flow, that spellbinding state of psychological bliss where you become one with the musicians and the performance. And finding that state of flow is the main reason why I listen music.
So still trusting Valin, I thought the speakers were set up poorly, I was in the wrong mood, bad amp mating, crappy room, etc. I then went out and heard Magicos in many settings, with many different amps. Unfortunately, I got the same subjective results…But listening to other brands, I was able to find that state of flow. If you think Magicos are transparent, listen to a dipole. The Magico is not as transparent or open as a Soundlab or a Nola or Martin logan clx. Play a live show of the Who or How the West Was Won by Led Zeppelin. On a Magico, I just hear the hiss and the imperfections. When I listen to that rock concert on an MBL, however, it carves out that acoustic space of the real performance – in your own room! It's freakin' spooky real!!! Or put on a live performance of your favorite pianist. On a Soundlab or an MBL you are there in that concert hall. You feel the energy and anticipation and the emotion of the crowd. With a Magico, I’m thinking of the shmucks who arranged and mixed the recording instead of getting absorbed in the performance…If that’s what accuracy or high fidelity means to someone, sorry, I’m not interested.
But even if you don’t trust what I have to say, listen to an exchange from Valin’s blog between Priaptor, one the esteemed members on this site, and Jon Valin, himself. This conversation confirms what I say above from the man himself, who used the Absolute Sound and his blogs to make Magico the company that they are. (Priaptor and Valin have spelled their names backwards, but it really is them. Priaptor goes first.)
"Noj Nilav,
...
On a personal note, as you know I purchased your much raved Magico Q1s and Constellation Centaur stereo amp with a full MIT Matrix system. After living with this system for close to 4 months, ultimately selling it for more than I paid (which is nice) I question the veracity of so many Magico groupies. Not my cup of tea. Yes the bass is solid, incredibly well defined with no overhang and better than most, BUT, this system is just not engaging. They do not disappear as stated. Their transparency is "good", not great. They are not the killers so touted on these pages. Quite frankly, I was astounded when reverting back to my reference system at how inferior this system was by comparison-which by the way, only appreciated after turning back on my reference which I hadn't listened to for over 3 months. I put my money to work and am not making this opinion by listening at a show but like you I lived with it for 4 months, putting my money where my mouth is REALLY wanting to like it (for a second system) and I was very happy to say bye bye. I really don't get it. Like politics in this country, sometimes in Audio, I feel like I am living in the Twilight Zone where a significant number of audiophiles have been infiltrated by the Magico Virus.
The search for a good monitor continues, BUT for me, it is NOT the Q1s. Give me back my Celestion SL600s, which for all their deficiencies in many areas, was a much more engaging speaker-and yes I spent a ton of time listening to the Q1s and optimizing location breaking them in, etc.
Sincerely
Rotpair
Rotpair,
I honestly don't know what to say. I was shocked when you bought a pair of Magicos (even though I know you got them at a very good price). Why was I shocked? Because judging from our long and often droll correspondence on-line (and your own expressed preference for Carl's speakers), I didn't think Magicos would be your "cup of tea." Thus, I am not at all surprised that you ended up selling the Q1s; nor do I doubt for a minute that you gave them every effort in setup and listening. Frankly I would've thought that you'd go with the Raidho C1.1/Constellation combo, which I STRONGLY recommended, you will recall (and rather expected you to opt for, given what you'd written on-line).
Speaking of cups of tea...personal preference is the very reason why I've divided listeners into three (overlapping) groups: fidelity to source, absolute sound, and as you like it (or musicality). From your correspondence I judge you to be a musicality/absolute sound listener. And while Magicos are scarcely amusical; they are not warm and cuddly and forgiving. They are, IMO, neutral, accurate, honest, and controlled. I didn't think they'd appeal to you, but...you bought 'em anyway.
You may have noticed that I've been gravitating toward Raidhos lately. This is because, like you and everyone else, I'm not JUST a fidelity-to-source freak. Part of me also longs for a consistently beautiful and exciting presentation, even if such a presentation isn't as true-to-sources as other, more neutral presentations are. What I long for above all else is realism. Not the absolute sound kind of realism, or not just that. I mean the kind of realism that you don't have to think about or make a silent, studied comparison to the sound of a live orchestra in a real hall to recognize. I mean the kind of realism that gives you an instant, unreflective, visceral reaction--the goosebump-raising, chill-down-the-spine, jaw-dropping kind of realism, The kind of realism that the Raidhos, for all their (deliberate) departures from neutrality and textbook accuracy, are so good at delivering.
I'm not disavowing Magico, BTW. I still think they make the best loudspeakers in the world for fidelity-to-source listeners like me. I'm simply admitting that no audiophile--including me--is purely ONE kind of listener. We all want to have our cake and eat it, too. Unfortunately (or not, depending on your viewpoint), every cake is a different blend of fidelity, musicality, and realism. Which recipe you will prefer is an entirely personal and (audiophiles being what they are) often fickle choice.
Noj"
You can find the full conversation here:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/munich-high-end-2013-show-report/
All these speakers discussed in the thread are highly revealing. In fact, I'm not sure if Frantz realizes, but he is describing the sound of the amps as much as he is describing the speakers. But we are just arguing about references and tastes here. Fortunately, there is as much gear in the world as there are religions. And people are free to choose what they like. I do like sharing experiences, but I don’t see any point arguing about tastes.
Good Listening!
