My Impressions of the Q7, Q3 aand TAD Ref

[Bruce B]

I wouldn't make any purchasing decision if I didn't hear it in my own system/room. I made that mistake, but never again!

 

[caesar]

I wouldn't make any purchasing decision if I didn't hear it in my own system/room. I made that mistake, but never again!

What you describe, Bruce, is an ideal.

Would you seriously haul 1,000-2,000 pounds worth of speakers to your room? And will the dealer let go of them so you can have "some fun" for a week or 2?

 

[mep]

I bet for Bruce they would do it.

 

[Dre_J]

Bad analogy. No contest. Paris takes first prize any day of the week.

Couldn't resist: If they don't take your wallet first!

I don't know how bad the lifting of things are in London or Rome...

Dre

 

[edorr]

Couldn't resist: If they don't take your wallet first!

I don't know how bad the lifting of things are in London or Rome...

Dre

Rome has the highest risk of getting robbed by far. Paris second, London 3rd. Avoiding Paris because of this negligible risk would be like avoiding a visit to New Orleans because of the risk of getting hit by another Katrina.

 

[edorr]

I wouldn't make any purchasing decision if I didn't hear it in my own system/room. I made that mistake, but never again!

Hang on. Are you telling me you had the Alexia's on trial before buying them?

 

[edorr]

Would you seriously haul 1,000-2,000 pounds worth of speakers to your room? And will the dealer let go of them so you can have "some fun" for a week or 2?

Exactly, the only way for me to "try before I buy" would be to buy a pair of used TADs BEFORE selling the MM3, try them out and sell the loser of the shootout. While certainly an option, I would prefer to convince myself the TAD are the better speaker based on audition in other room, sell the MM3s and then buy the TADs. Strictly a cash flow issue.

 

[Bruce B]

Hang on. Are you telling me you had the Alexia's on trial before buying them?

Yes!

 

[Bruce B]

What you describe, Bruce, is an ideal.

Would you seriously haul 1,000-2,000 pounds worth of speakers to your room? And will the dealer let go of them so you can have "some fun" for a week or 2?

Sure did!

 

[caesar]

Sure did!

That's great.

And how many did you return?

 

[Dre_J]

Rome has the highest risk of getting robbed by far. Paris second, London 3rd. Avoiding Paris because of this negligible risk would be like avoiding a visit to New Orleans because of the risk of getting hit by another Katrina.

Guess I should have put a smiley after the post. Although I think the odds are much greater than the reference to N.O. and Katrina by a long shot. Certinley WBF member jeromelang may think so here

Despite my comment made in jest, I look forward to visiting the fine city of Paris in the future.

Dre

 

[edorr]

Guess I should have put a smiley after the post. Although I think the odds are much greater than the reference to N.O. and Katrina by a long shot. Certinley WBF member jeromelang may think so here

Despite my comment made in jest, I look forward to visiting the fine city of Paris in the future.

Dre

Prettiest city on earth. Florence and venice come second/third, but the tourist density there is a turn off. Don't miss it. Get a half decent hotel with a safe, carry some cash and plastic and your risk is limited. Unlike Rio de Janeiro and the USA, the risk of getting hurt physically in the extremely unlikely event of robbery is zero, which is always reassuring.

 

[Bruce B]

That's great.

And how many did you return?

5.... (Avalon, Genesis, Focal, Wilson and B&W) Don't think I want to go through that again!

 

[caesar]

5.... (Avalon, Genesis, Focal, Wilson and B&W) Don't think I want to go through that again!

Wow!!!

What were those conversations like?

 

[Bruce B]

Wow!!!

What were those conversations like?

Sorry, I forgot a couple more.... Eficion and Harbeth

It was a merry-go-round. I dreaded having to haul them in/out of the studio. I owe a lot to my wife for putting up with it and helping ease my back aches! I felt I had gotten off the ride with I got the MM3's, but it was just another ride in the amusement park. Unfortunately I did not get to hear them in my room before I committed to them. I heard them in 3 other rooms and wasn't really pleased with the sound then, but the manufacturer promised me with all the adjustments, that they would be perfect for the room.... LOL!

 

[mauidan]

I probably have one of the newest ones in circulation--I just took delivery and had my card charged a couple weeks ago. $19K (ouch!)

$19k for a CD player with single ended outputs, no volume control and no digital inputs seems a liitle out of touch.

 

[caesar]

Why, I had no idea I had a famous thread.

100, 200 years from now, when we are all gone, and WBF is archived on some search site, people will still find the thread.

 

[Elberoth]

One big difference between Magico and TAD is that Magico throws the details at you. TAD has all the details of the Magico, but presents them as part of the musical whole."

Caesar - where did you hear the Magicos ? In what system ? I'm asking since you seem to have a wrong impression of this brand. Having heard the V2/M5/S1/S5/Q3/Q5 and TAD Reference/CR-1 my impression is the exact opposite.

When I first brought the S5 home for an extended audition (after having owned Wilson Sophia2/Sasha for 5 years) my first impression was that the S5 were soundng ... very dark. In my experience, the Magico tweeter manages to present a lot of details without soundng etched or hot - which I directly atribute to the design of the berilium tweeter, whose resonant freq lies 10-15k higher than competing designs. That gives it a certain grainless quality which is hard to find.

I had the same impression when I heard the new Rockports, which also sport the same Scan-Speak berilium tweeter.

 

[JackD201]

It's hard to form any definitive impressions without taking the time to go through at least a few system permutations. The problem with all transparent, high resolution loudspeakers is that they are so easy to screw up upstream and with even basic set up. For some the upside isn't worth the trouble and I can fully understand and appreciate that but when one is willing to do the work...........

 

[stereo]

One thing about TAD is that it is very chameleon like. I prefer is with warmer amps, but it will sound very detailed with different amps. One big difference between Magico and TAD is that Magico throws the details at you. TAD has all the details of the Magico, but presents them as part of the musical whole. Again, as MEP wisely stated, it's all preference.

Another thought: Tad is part of Pioneer, a very big company. If TAD were a garage operation or a small manufacturing facility operation, it would cost 3 times as much and would command a lot more respect. You can just hear some guys think: "That speaker is only $80K. It must not be as good as the $200K Wilson Alexandria or the $180K Magico Q7."

Like many others, I have a very different listening experience on Magico speakers vs. TAD. Sound with Magico is more refined, more musical to my ears, and tweeter is sweeter while being extremely detailed at the same time. In short, it sound more like live music, and it is so transparent that it sounds like the upstream components you connect them with. Don't get me wrong, I actually quite like the TAD sound- the reference One performs at similar level as my previous MM3. But even my small Magico Q1 are sounding much better than the MM3!

I completely disagree with you on TAD value for money. At 80k, the Reference is way overpriced. It is well known in the industry that TAD has one of the worst BoM (Bill of material) to MSRP ratio, at around 9 times. Reason is simple: brand equity sucks, so the Pioneer team's strategy is to price up on official price... then to propose big discounts to buyers. This is why you can get them easily at 40% discount, because retail price doesn't reflect what is in the speakers, and they are always people stupid enough to believe they do a bargain because they see a "-40%".
I have the chance to do a lot of work in consumer electronics, and have a team of people who is doing product tear downs for redesign to cost, so I know pretty well how much it costs to build different products on the market... Since you like taking Magico speakers as a reference, let's have a look at the 15% cheaper Q5 vs. the TAD reference:
1) cabinet: what do you believe cost more, fully machining in California this type of aluminum structure or buying in China a MDF enclosure? The anodizing alone of the Q5 for finishing costs more to produce than the full cabinet of the TAD!!


2) crossover: what does cost more: the TAD crossover with "radioshack level" components (see the small pic) or these two boards weighting 35lbs with Mundorf components (Magico pic is for the bass crossover, to give you a sense of scale I attached also a pic of the 2 XOs in the speaker itself)?


And the comparison can go on... reality is that when you buy a pair of Q5, you get a speaker which costs at least 3 times more to produce than the TAD reference One... and the Q5 still has a lower MRSP!! To my ears, Magico does the right investment: stiffer, dead cabinet translates into less coloration. Better quality of XO translates also in higher transparency. Better, larger neodymium magnets leads to better transient... You may prefer the sound of the TAD (thi is all about preference!)... but don't fool yourself on value for money