My Impressions of the Q7, Q3 aand TAD Ref

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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405
Hi
This is my first real vacation in almost 10 years. I have a minimum of agenda or schedule.. A joy! I took the opportunity to visit NYC and audition some speakers for my next system
I had a great experience with Ciamarra in NYC. I wanted to audition the kef Blades, speakers that are high on my list because of my present experience with the stupendously good LS 50. This is not an account of the Blades as they weren’t available but of another speaker I “discovered”” The TAD Reference. These speakers drop you in teen-age talk: “omg”, “lol”, “omfg”, “2G2BT” etc… I wasn’t prepared for what these speakers sound like. As coherent as the LS 50 but with a presence the LS50 can’t begin to suggest, not a bass thing really.. There is a density (for the lack of a better word) to the sound of the TAD Reference that the LS 50 (and many speakers out there at all level of prices) simply lack. The speakers are superb, one of the truly great speakers I have heard recently… The dealer was of the let-it-play-as-long-as-you-like school of salesmanship. No push, no hurry, no sales pitch. Discrete presence and available to answer any question. The room wasn’t optimal but the personnel couldn't be any better. Driving the Reference was the Ayre Integrated!! (It is that kind of good) and a Viola DAC/preamp (used as DAC only) this time I was able to play my USB stick. I cam utterly impressed by the gear and dealer, another enthusiast, I had to leave but if it looked that if it were for Sanjay Patel, I could have remained in his loft for as long as I had to (that’s a thought by the way, I have an additional place to stay in NYC :D) . Sanjay knows his stuff and let the gear strut his stuff. With him you listen to music and determine how the gear present it. The sales pitch is kept to a microscopic level … IOW almost none. If a person is out there for speaker over $50K, please do give a serious audition to the TAD Reference, if you are in NYC, Ciamarra is a great place for that … I still need to audition the Blades… I have a suspicion they are close to the TAD Reference…
It is always a pleasure to meet your fellow WBFer in-the-flesh. I met Ack for a brief time and am looking forward to meet him again on my next stay in his home area. One word describes Ack: Enthusiast. He is an avid music lover who finds the accurate reproduction of music attractive and abide to it. A fine ear and a fun person to be around.
I was to spend a week in the New England area. Due to unforeseen events (euphemism for poor planning :) ) I was only able to spend a day in Boston. Ack hooked me up with the people at Goodwin’s. a very, very different High End store in my experience. The only thing fancy about Goodwin’s are the equipment they carry, the rooms and the knowledge of its personnel, else you could pass by the store and barely notice there are that level of gear in there… If the deal is to find the best place to audition a given gear, there aren’t many places like Goodwin’s High End. For starters, they are not pushy. You want to listen, you are left to listen, audition and look around. Your questions are answered politely and expertly. IOW these guys know their stuff. Their business model is refreshing: They are there to serve audiophiles and music lovers and also those (non-audiophiles) who need a custom anything to grace their house.
Now back to the gear I auditioned (about 4 hours). First the Magico Q7. I can’t understand the kind of hate Magico elicit, again I understand it : ) . The speaker is simply spectacular. (Please see the above texting abbreviations and add “7k” and expletives not suitable to utter or print :) ) For starters, they are big, very big, bigger than they look in pictures and surprisingly handsome, not “Sonus--Faber handsome, a sort of techno. They are solid as anything any audiophiles as ever experienced. When you do a knuckle knock test on these speakers, the only feedback is … nothing. You knuckle and brain tells you that increasing the level of stimuli will only induce pain to your anatomy.. Then the sound. Glorious. Big when it needs and as small as necessary. The most interesting aspect of the “sound” of the Q7 is the lack of noise, which translates in the speakers being as absent as a 750 pounds black monolith can manage to be. Playing you have the strange and almost unsettling impression that the speaker are … not …playing.. Sounds doesn’t come from the speakers themselves but from a real, palpable soundstage. With 3-D expanse and definition, more so than any speaker I have heard to date. Forget tonality which is spectacular in this speaker or neutral which this speaker is to an unusual extent… it is palpability. The stage is set. The sound is set on a stage if the recording allows and is presented that way, not a speaker “playing” . Highly unusual and to me intoxicating …
Driving those where all Spectral gear. Let me say it if I haven’t yet. Spectral may well be one the best value in High End Audio. I have heard a lot of gears with tag price well over $100K per component The whole Spectral system I heard was around or under $50K (Spectral 400: $28,000 the pair, Preamp: $12K, CD Player about 10K, maybe slightly more)… If the opinion many have formed of Spectral is “Analytic” , “Dry”, “sterile” bring a new set of descriptive or better leave the false stereotypes at home or in the garbage can. None of this, rich, harmonically correct, incredible timing and utter silence... And yes people... Power… plentiful and a sound as real as anything you have heard in a concert or live. Oh mine! they are the real deal. While I know there is a whole attraction toward some SS brands. Please do give Spectral a listen first with an open mind, then pay up for more… if you want to but do not think or expect you’d be buying superior gear… I was an admirer, I have become a fan… From now on high, very high on my list, very much near the top … What I could have wished for? That they could play the music that was on my USB stick, the DAC that could wasn’t available…
Then came the Q3. They are not the Q7, not at all but there is no letdown. You go from an insanely great speaker to a great speaker at a quarter of the price. I could not help thinking how would the Q3 sound with subwoofers… I simply believe that the Q3 in a multi-subs system would come very close to the Q7 without subs… Oh yes!. I can see myself with a pair of Q3 and a pair (or more) of Seaton Submersive. Heaven at a (relative) discount.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
3,139
14
36
Smyrna, GA
Hi
This is my first real vacation in almost 10 years. I have a minimum of agenda or schedule.. A joy! I took the opportunity to visit NYC and audition some speakers for my next system
I had a great experience with Ciamarra in NYC. I wanted to audition the kef Blades, speakers that are high on my list because of my present experience with the stupendously good LS 50. This is not an account of the Blades as they weren’t available but of another speaker I “discovered”” The TAD Reference. These speakers drop you in teen-age talk: “omg”, “lol”, “omfg”, “2G2BT” etc… I wasn’t prepared for what these speakers sound like. As coherent as the LS 50 but with a presence the LS50 can’t begin to suggest, not a bass thing really.. There is a density (for the lack of a better word) to the sound of the TAD Reference that the LS 50 (and many speakers out there at all level of prices) simply lack. The speakers are superb, one of the truly great speakers I have heard recently… The dealer was of the let-it-play-as-long-as-you-like school of salesmanship. No push, no hurry, no sales pitch. Discrete presence and available to answer any question. The room wasn’t optimal but the personnel couldn't be any better. Driving the Reference was the Ayre Integrated!! (It is that kind of good) and a Viola DAC/preamp (used as DAC only) this time I was able to play my USB stick. I cam utterly impressed by the gear and dealer, another enthusiast, I had to leave but if it looked that if it were for Sanjay Patel, I could have remained in his loft for as long as I had to (that’s a thought by the way, I have an additional place to stay in NYC :D) . Sanjay knows his stuff and let the gear strut his stuff. With him you listen to music and determine how the gear present it. The sales pitch is kept to a microscopic level … IOW almost none. If a person is out there for speaker over $50K, please do give a serious audition to the TAD Reference, if you are in NYC, Ciamarra is a great place for that … I still need to audition the Blades… I have a suspicion they are close to the TAD Reference…
It is always a pleasure to meet your fellow WBFer in-the-flesh. I met Ack for a brief time and am looking forward to meet him again on my next stay in his home area. One word describes Ack: Enthusiast. He is an avid music lover who finds the accurate reproduction of music attractive and abide to it. A fine ear and a fun person to be around.
I was to spend a week in the New England area. Due to unforeseen events (euphemism for poor planning :) ) I was only able to spend a day in Boston. Ack hooked me up with the people at Goodwin’s. a very, very different High End store in my experience. The only thing fancy about Goodwin’s are the equipment they carry, the rooms and the knowledge of its personnel, else you could pass by the store and barely notice there are that level of gear in there… If the deal is to find the best place to audition a given gear, there aren’t many places like Goodwin’s High End. For starters, they are not pushy. You want to listen, you are left to listen, audition and look around. Your questions are answered politely and expertly. IOW these guys know their stuff. Their business model is refreshing: They are there to serve audiophiles and music lovers and also those (non-audiophiles) who need a custom anything to grace their house.
Now back to the gear I auditioned (about 4 hours). First the Magico Q7. I can’t understand the kind of hate Magico elicit, again I understand it : ) . The speaker is simply spectacular. (Please see the above texting abbreviations and add “7k” and expletives not suitable to utter or print :) ) For starters, they are big, very big, bigger than they look in pictures and surprisingly handsome, not “Sonus--Faber handsome, a sort of techno. They are solid as anything any audiophiles as ever experienced. When you do a knuckle knock test on these speakers, the only feedback is … nothing. You knuckle and brain tells you that increasing the level of stimuli will only induce pain to your anatomy.. Then the sound. Glorious. Big when it needs and as small as necessary. The most interesting aspect of the “sound” of the Q7 is the lack of noise, which translates in the speakers being as absent as a 750 pounds black monolith can manage to be. Playing you have the strange and almost unsettling impression that the speaker are … not …playing.. Sounds doesn’t come from the speakers themselves but from a real, palpable soundstage. With 3-D expanse and definition, more so than any speaker I have heard to date. Forget tonality which is spectacular in this speaker or neutral which this speaker is to an unusual extent… it is palpability. The stage is set. The sound is set on a stage if the recording allows and is presented that way, not a speaker “playing” . Highly unusual and to me intoxicating …
Driving those where all Spectral gear. Let me say it if I haven’t yet. Spectral may well be one the best value in High End Audio. I have heard a lot of gears with tag price well over $100K per component The whole Spectral system I heard was around or under $50K (Spectral 400: $28,000 the pair, Preamp: $12K, CD Player about 10K, maybe slightly more)… If the opinion many have formed of Spectral is “Analytic” , “Dry”, “sterile” bring a new set of descriptive or better leave the false stereotypes at home or in the garbage can. None of this, rich, harmonically correct, incredible timing and utter silence... And yes people... Power… plentiful and a sound as real as anything you have heard in a concert or live. Oh mine! they are the real deal. While I know there is a whole attraction toward some SS brands. Please do give Spectral a listen first with an open mind, then pay up for more… if you want to but do not think or expect you’d be buying superior gear… I was an admirer, I have become a fan… From now on high, very high on my list, very much near the top … What I could have wished for? That they could play the music that was on my USB stick, the DAC that could wasn’t available…
Then came the Q3. They are not the Q7, not at all but there is no letdown. You go from an insanely great speaker to a great speaker at a quarter of the price. I could not help thinking how would the Q3 sound with subwoofers… I simply believe that the Q3 in a multi-subs system would come very close to the Q7 without subs… Oh yes!. I can see myself with a pair of Q3 and a pair (or more) of Seaton Submersive. Heaven at a (relative) discount.

I have not met him in person, but Sanjay @ ciamara is a class act. So bottom line, cost aside - would you prefer the TADR1 or the Q7? Since the TAD R1 are 40% of the Q7, how close are the two? Note that if you're seriously tempted there is a pair of TADs for $45K on A'gon - offer $40K and you own them. If I could put with the logistical nightmare, I'd consider it....
 

cjfrbw

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,361
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Pleasanton, CA
Great field report, Frantz, thanks!
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I could not help thinking how would the Q3 sound with subwoofers… I simply believe that the Q3 in a multi-subs system would come very close to the Q7 without subs… Oh yes!. I can see myself with a pair of Q3 and a pair (or more) of Seaton Submersive. Heaven at a (relative) discount.

I have a friend who has the Q3's with subs and all Spectral Gear in a spectacular room. It is one of the three best 2-channel audio systems I have ever heard. Never heard the Q7 but it would need to be a WHOLE bunch better for the price differential.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I have not met him in person, but Sanjay @ ciamara is a class act. So bottom line, cost aside - would you prefer the TADR1 or the Q7? Since the TAD R1 are 40% of the Q7, how close are the two? Note that if you're seriously tempted there is a pair of TADs for $45K on A'gon - offer $40K and you own them. If I could put with the logistical nightmare, I'd consider it....

edorr

You have some tough questions :( The Magico seem to be doing that goes well with my world view of music reproduction... Accurate, to the point.. Just the fact maa'm .. A transducer that doesn't add anything to the reproduction and is capable of extraordinary realism .. So do the TAD Reference speakers, they are different though .. A tad (no pun intended) more rounded, a little more forgiving but not less revealing or seductive, a very fine speaker .. Is the Q3 better? No, The Q7 certainly is, to my ears and sense of musical reproduction. Would I go for the TAD at $40K? Not yet, not yet ready for such a purchase. I would advise any one shopping for a speaker in that price range to grab them and be done with...
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
3,139
14
36
Smyrna, GA
Thanks - good input. If I could just write a check for the difference between what I can get for my MM3s and $40k, and push the zap in and zap out button on my PC to swap them out, I would get the TADs just for kicks. As it stands, the prospect of disassembling, selling, crating and shipping 1800 lbs, and moving may be 600 lbs worth of speaker back in is preventing me from pursuing this project.
 

Roysen

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
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Thanks for a great report. Did you by any chance listen to any Rockport Technologies speakers at Goodwins?
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Thanks for a great report. Did you by any chance listen to any Rockport Technologies speakers at Goodwins?

Roysen

I am tempted, I was set on the Q3, the Kef Blades or the Mg 20.7 ... The field has widened considerably with the "discovery" of the TAD Reference ... I heard a few years ago the Rockport Aquila or it could have been the Ankaa and found me superb which brings me to the necessity to listen to the Rocport Avior ... This will be done soon.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
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edorr

You have some tough questions :( The Magico seem to be doing that goes well with my world view of music reproduction... Accurate, to the point.. Just the fact maa'm .. A transducer that doesn't add anything to the reproduction and is capable of extraordinary realism .. So do the TAD Reference speakers, they are different though .. A tad (no pun intended) more rounded, a little more forgiving but not less revealing or seductive, a very fine speaker .. Is the Q3 better? No, The Q7 certainly is, to my ears and sense of musical reproduction. Would I go for the TAD at $40K? Not yet, not yet ready for such a purchase. I would advise any one shopping for a speaker in that price range to grab them and be done with...

Wow, so the TADs were better than the Q3? I must hear those TADs :)
Would you say your preference was because you found the Q3 lacked deep bass, and thus needed subwoofers?


alexandre
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Wow, so the TADs were better than the Q3? I must hear those TADs :)
Would you say your preference was because you found the Q3 lacked deep bass, and thus needed subwoofers?


alexandre

Hi

In my current view, i will likely go for the Q3 and subs. As a matter of fact, I would go with any speaker short of the Genesis Dragon or maybe the EA MM7 with subs, empasis on plural: subwoofers, even if I were able to go for the Q7 it would be with subs. To me just a matter of physics: in most rooms where you place the mains for soundstaging and accurate reproduction of tonality is different from the best position for optimal bass reproduction, thus more subs solve the problem along with EQ and delay .. That is my view and the sciences of Acoustics and Psycho-acoustics point toward this point of view. I seriously like the clarity the Magico imparts to the music reproduction. It seems to be a Magico thing, the Q3 sounds like the Q7... Not a voicing per se, rather a pure , pristine type of reproduction. The TAD Reference has it but not to the same degree. It seems of a different scale however it is a bigger scle speaker however. Not that the Q3 is a small scale speaker by any metric. It plays bigger than it looks but the TAD Reference present a bigger picture as big as any of the big speakers with ease, detail and a seductive sound ... I wouldn't dare call it voicing but it seems to be sweeter than the Magico Q3. Paradoxically the Q7 is not lacking in sweetness. I find it easy oon the ear, easier even than the Q3 and that with the exact same electronics!!... And .. Alexandre, you must hear the TAD they are that good... I would be very please with them ... but there is the Q5 and there is the Rockport Altair ... If I was going there. I sure will not :)

I strive but do not always succeed in shedding prejudices and of course it is a perpetual process. No end to it as we build more of those as we go along in life. Speakers have gotten extremely good. The continuous increase in speaker quality from different manufacturers create an interesting competition in speakers. There is no doubt a rise in relativism but there is an objective reality of reproduction. In spite of our taste, we share the same physiology and some would say by extension some psychological traits. The better speakers are sounding very different but there is a convergence ... and it has to do with Science. I haven't yet heard the Wilson Alexia but I was told it is one very different sounding Wilson, maybe more neutral than the "older" and even some speakers reputed to be neutral!! that from a Wilson!! . I have a friend who is thinking about the VS VR9 and is coming from the ESL world. There is no doubt the better speakers are getting more neutral .. There is a convergence.. You choose your poison.. At this point in time .I am leaning toward the MAgico Q3 ... I still need to audition the Blades and the Rocport Avior and ... :D >.Fun times in speakers

One more thing : Spectral is the real deal.. No doubt ...

Just to poke some fun at my fellow audiophiles... The cables were the MIT whatever .. I was nice enough not to ask for a fat gauge zip cord :D .. I was thinking about it however :cool:
 

asiufy

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Frantz,

Cool, thanks for the clarification :) My question was mostly because I don't hear any lack of bass on the Q3, but you made it clear that it's your personal choice to always have subs, to fill in the low frequencies.

From your description, the S5 sounds more like the TAD than the Q3. It is "rounder" and smoother. If you have the chance to hear a pair, go for it!



alexandre
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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Frantz, you are too kind - I am blushed. I am really glad to have finally met you, and more so now that I know you hear the same way I do. At the end of the day, audiophiles hear differently, based on on our own references and preferences. What others call analytical I call realistic - cases in point, the "bite" (as you mentioned) with strings; others really like a smoothed out sound; the size, and explosive dynamics of the piano we heard; others would prefer, well, "piano" (ie. softer). The piano can be a grand, loud instrument, capable of filling an entire concert hall - and Earl Wild plays the scherzi with brio on that Chesky CD; the violin can "bite" if you so play it.

On the Q3, if you go back to listen to them in a smaller room you may find the bass more complete; apart from what you said about it, you will also notice the tweeter is not exactly the same (the model number Magico puts on is, in fact, different) - it's missing a tad of the Q7's metallic sound with cymbals (no one confuse this with ringing), which is one of the many things the Q7 does so well. And I still think room-size and set-up are extremely critical to get these speakers to work well, so if you do buy I suggest you tailor your room to them.

I hope we meet again in the future for much longer.
 

KeithR

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May 7, 2010
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Thanks for the great thoughts, Frantz. I think the Q3 is the best Magico speaker (for sane money as you allude)-- and the most efficient which helps in amplifier selection.

although on Spectral- saying it's cheap compared to the alternatives is a bit apples and oranges because its designed to be used an an entire system (start pricing out their dac/transport) and the required cables/power cords/pc cost a relative fortune. it's a 100k system, just by different means.
 

microstrip

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(...) Paradoxically the Q7 is not lacking in sweetness. I find it easy oon the ear, easier even than the Q3 and that with the exact same electronics!!... (...)

Frantz,

Nice to read your post. Do you think that the " easy on the ear" can be due to the higher efficiency of the Q7 putting less stress in the amplifier?

Curious that Magico gets polarized between the Q3 and Q7 - the Q5 seems forgotten.
 

Bruce B

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Every time I have heard the TAD Ref, it has been phenominal! If I didn't already have the Alexia, I'd certainly have the TAD Ref.
 

asiufy

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Curious that Magico gets polarized between the Q3 and Q7 - the Q5 seems forgotten.

I think it's because the Q5 was the first, so it's not "news" anymore. Besides, it's big and very hard to drive, which makes amplifier choice even more critical than with the Q3.
While the Q3 is highly efficient, it doesn't work with all amps (mostly those on the warm side of neutral), for some unknown reason.
I don't know, but I'd probably pick a Q3 over a Q5, even if I had the amps to drive them.

alexandre
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

THe Q5 has one thing that goes against it : Low sensitivity and I think a rather hard load ... It requires more power than either the Q7 or the Q3 according to many. I heard from the same people that when properly driven it rivals offerings in the over $100K. Have heard briefly but not long enough to form a serious opinion.

As for the Spectral system-approach, I do not abide by it, having heard countless of Spectral based systems using various cables from MIT to SHunyatta with great success. True they have had their quirks but ... The Spectral Preamp-Amp combo (top of the Line both) clocks at a total MSRP of $40K and to my ears ..They are the real deal. The amp projects the impression of unlimited power ... I don;t think too manyspeakers would be able to push it. Sound is clear, precise and "fast' .. No emphasis on any part of the Spectrum. They are all there if from the recording...

Ack I will be back in Boston and we should spend a longer time together. I thank you for the hospitality, I know it would have been more so if I had spent more time. We'll come more prepared the next time. I am eager to hear your own system. I am a planar person after all ..but the new slew of cone speakers (Magico, Rockport, YG, Focal, Wilson ,et al ) match them where they used to reign unchallenged.
 

ack

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Frantz, any time just call. Btw if you like Maggies make a point to listen to Analysis Audio - construction and sound that Magnepans cannot touch
 

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