It Was Inevitable…

[knghifi]

Private companies exist to make money. Manufacturing, operating ... expenses just metrics in keeping the lights on, If they're smart, should charge whatever the market will bear. Fact that Nordost has been in business for a very long time speaks for itself. Enough support and demand for their products. Econ 101!

Funny how ones lack the resources to afford these cables are geniuses, savvy ...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Based on some discussions I’ve had with Ron, I’d like to add a few things Ron omitted in his rationale for selecting Mogami cables at the outset. It seems to me that one thing most of us have learned when setting up a new room with the system of one’s dreams, is that it often takes quite a while to get things to sound their best. Six months or longer is not unusual. We also know that cables are a critical component of any system and their selection is often dependent on the electronics (and to some extent) the speakers being used. In Ron’s case, he requires a 50 foot run between his front end and his amplifiers. Choosing a cable in this setting without any good data to support the selection can easily wind up being unproductive or worse- an expensive mistake. In Ron’s case, it makes a lot of sense to try and optimize the room while using an inexpensive option for his 50 ft cable runs, while experimenting with several available “unobtainium” cables between the front end gear to learn what night be the best fit for the long runs when the room is far more optimized and tweaked. Are Mogami’s a good choice for this situation? Well, consider that for the majority of classical recording we listen to, it is often the cable of choice for those 50 foot and longer runs from the microphones to the recording console and has been for decades. Now put yourself in Ron’s place. Would you rather spend a hundred bucks for a 50 foot run on Mogami while you are optimizing everything else over the next several months, or make an a priori decision and buy a 50 foot run of unobtanium cables for tens of thousands of dollars now that he has never heard? His decision to go with Mogami initially is by far the wiser choice and likely a far less costly path than any other for long term satisfaction. Seems like a darn good SWAN (sleep well at night) decision for now!

Thank you very much, Marty, for posting this explanation. You are 100% correct in every respect! I appreciate it!

 

[wil]

Private companies exist to make money. Manufacturing, operating ... expenses just metrics in keeping the lights on, If they're smart, should charge whatever the market will bear. Fact that Nordost has been in business for a very long time speaks for itself. Enough support and demand for their products. Econ 101!

Funny how ones lack the resources to afford these cables are geniuses, savvy ...

And based on their ad copy, they view their customers as complete fools. Yay Nordost!

I can think of a bunch of companies audio and non-audio that do quite well without this kind of BS.

 

[DaveC]

And based on their ad copy, they view their customers as complete fools. Yay Nordost!

I can think of a bunch of companies audio and non-audio that do quite well without this kind of BS.

I think "fools" is too strong a word here. Lots of folks don't have enough technical understanding for in-depth technical explanations, and often marketing folks interpret engineering information in unfortunate ways that I agree sounds pretty bad to those who have a bit more knowledge. So while it can come off that way I really don't think Nordost views their customers as fools.

Nordost seems to be very successful, so whatever they are doing works! They have their niche and they have their fans, live an let live is my opinion on the matter. As I mentioned earlier, they don't need to have broad appeal, they only need their niche and I don't think it's worth the effort to judge them for it.

If the product truly is inferior I can understand being more critical, but most people have never heard these cables yet, the one who did seems to think they are an improvement over the previous generation. IDK, maybe they are truly wonderful cables?

 

[dan31]

I think we are having a lot of fun with teasing Nordost. Has anyone actually listened to these products? They might be pretty good. Not that I would be a customer for these cables.

 

[jeff1225]

I think we are having a lot of fun with teasing Nordost. Has anyone actually listened to these products? They might be pretty good. Not that I would be a customer for these cables.

I have, numerous times. I find the Odin to be very bright and edgy. I have not heard their latest gold units; but I'm excited to hear the platinum, diamond or uranium ones they are probably working on.

 

[PeterA]

And based on their ad copy, they view their customers as complete fools. Yay Nordost!

I can think of a bunch of companies audio and non-audio that do quite well without this kind of BS.

We have been told by dealers and reviewers that cables are components. A cable manufacturer has now stated that cables can be more difficult to design than amplifiers and speakers.

I don’t know what to make of these comments but perhaps these new cables are appropriately priced. I suspect other cable manufacturers are taking note.

 

[DaveC]

We have been told by dealers and reviewers that cables are components. A cable manufacturer has now stated that cables can be more difficult to design than amplifiers and speakers.

I don’t know what to make of these comments but perhaps these new cables are appropriately priced. I suspect other cable manufacturers are taking note.

Let's be clear that I am saying this out of actual real-world experience as a degreed mechanical engineer who has specialized in manufacturing. I have designed and built preamps, amps, speakers and cables.

You and others may disagree, but you are disagreeing based on what exactly? Your own experiences designing and building all this stuff? No? Then what? What you imagine to be reality?

Look, cables have their own set of unique challenges to design and build properly. SOME aspects of this are indeed more difficult vs other components and speakers. It seems to me like you simply don't understand all of these design and manufacturing challenges regarding cables, amps and speakers.

But that doesn't stop some people from pretending they do understand and then talking down to someone who actually does. It's like bizarro-land in here sometimes. The least people can do is have some respect for others...

 

[PeterA]

Let's be clear that I am saying this out of actual real-world experience as a degreed mechanical engineer who has specialized in manufacturing. I have designed and built preamps, amps, speakers and cables.

You and others may disagree, but you are disagreeing based on what exactly? Your own experiences designing and building all this stuff? No? Then what? What you imagine to be reality?

Look, cables have their own set of unique challenges to design and build properly. SOME aspects of this are indeed more difficult vs other components and speakers. It seems to me like you simply don't understand all of these design and manufacturing challenges regarding cables, amps and speakers.

But that doesn't stop some people from pretending they do understand and then talking down to someone who actually does. It's like bizarro-land in here sometimes. The least people can do is have some respect for others...

Dave, I am not claiming to understand. I am not disagreeing with your claim. I'm just repeating your claim and those of others who say that cables are components and searching for some justification for the pricing.

I would like to understand why you think cables are more difficult to design and build than amps and speakers.

 

[marty]

View attachment 81028

It took me a while but I finally found them!! I sourced ultra rare bullshitium from a small mining colony on Rigel 7 and custom fabricated them into audio cables using specially modified Furutech CF-102 NCF RCA connectors (coated with proprietary bee pollen) . They are far better than anything you have ever heard, Some have even said they are so unique, they have no sound at all. Available in limited quantities. $100K per 1.5 m pair. Please allow 864.3 light years for delivery (unfortunately, Rigel is much further away than China). I am currently in discussions with Nordost for distribution here on earth.

 

[morricab]

It took me a while but I finally found them!! I sourced ultra rare bullshitium from a small mining colony on Rigel 7 and custom fabricated them into audio cables using specially modified Furutech CF-102 NCF RCA connectors (coated with proprietary bee pollen) . They are far better than anything you have ever heard, Some have even said they are so unique, they have no sound at all. Available in limited quantities. $100K per 1.5 m pair. Please allow 864.3 light years for delivery (unfortunately, Rigel is much further away than China). I am currently in discussions with Nordost for distribution here on earth.

View attachment 81583

Mine are of Ixian design…better than those on Richese…

 

[knghifi]

And based on their ad copy, they view their customers as complete fools. Yay Nordost!

I can think of a bunch of companies audio and non-audio that do quite well without this kind of BS.

Advertisement is to generate interest. Sometimes controversy is not a bad thing. Like they say. "There is no such thing as bad publicity'". Ultimately it has to perform once got them through the door.

 

[marty]

Mine are of Ixian design…better than those on Richese…

No wonder Nordost has not gotten back to me. They must think they found a better product.

 

[DaveC]

I would like to understand why you think cables are more difficult to design and build than amps and speakers.

I already did in post #123.

If you have any more specific questions I'm happy to answer them.

 

[Lagonda]

It took me a while but I finally found them!! I sourced ultra rare bullshitium from a small mining colony on Rigel 7 and custom fabricated them into audio cables using specially modified Furutech CF-102 NCF RCA connectors (coated with proprietary bee pollen) . They are far better than anything you have ever heard, Some have even said they are so unique, they have no sound at all. Available in limited quantities. $100K per 1.5 m pair. Please allow 864.3 light years for delivery (unfortunately, Rigel is much further away than China). I am currently in discussions with Nordost for distribution here on earth.

View attachment 81583

Is that a IC from the new " Mr.T" line of Bullshitium cables ? I am gobsmacked !

 

[marty]

Is that a IC from the new " Mr.T" line of Bullshitium cables ? I am gobsmacked !

Yes!
Our motto is "You ain't heard nothin' yet".

 

[Lagonda]

Yes!
Our motto is "You ain't heard nothin' yet".

Is it true that the "Mr. T" line of Bullshitium cable is being exclusively offered to existing customers, qualifying by having already spent a minimum of 100K on cables ? I heard that they are offering a generous buy back program where they will pay back 2 cents on every dollar spent !

 

[rando]

Thank you very much, Marty, for posting this explanation. You are 100% correct in every respect! I appreciate it!

How did anyone mistake your discussion (not second or third hand relating of it) as anything but a trial run with lots of moving parts still potentially bending or rolling over them. I actually thought the process of choosing which Mogami to use was interesting without all the usual crapola fomenting insults.

 

[DaveC]

Cables, however, are an unknown to me. I do not think the Mogami or Belden cables are as good as the expensive stuff. I also do not think the expensive cables are as good as the Mogami or Belden cables. I truly do not know. I have no basis for an opinion. I simply do not know that the expensive stuff is better. I am not going to assume that the expensive stuff is better. I am not a Veblen good adherent.

Therefore, it seems logical to me to start with the inexpensive stuff first (as opposed to selecting relatively arbitrarily one of the expensive brands first).

If I discover the expensive stuff sounds better to me, then I happily will pay up for improved sound quality I can perceive.

I know we've gone over this, but the biggest issue with using Mogami is going to be they are very warm and not extremely resolving cables.

I'd consider the Neotech NEMOI-3220 UPOCC copper ribbon in teflon instead. It's not crazy expensive and it'll be much more neutral vs Mogami, which will allow you to hear other changes that you make much more easily. I believe it's about $10/ft retail in bulk. I can give you a discount and terminate them...

NEMOI – Neotech Cable

wp.neotechcable.com

This is going to be a VERY low capacitance cable due to the side-by-side arrangement of the ribbons.

 

[morricab]

I know we've gone over this, but the biggest issue with using Mogami is going to be they are very warm and not extremely resolving cables.

I'd consider the Neotech NEMOI-3220 UPOCC copper ribbon in teflon instead. It's not crazy expensive and it'll be much more neutral vs Mogami, which will allow you to hear other changes that you make much more easily. I believe it's about $10/ft retail in bulk. I can give you a discount and terminate them...

NEMOI – Neotech Cable

wp.neotechcable.com

This is going to be a VERY low capacitance cable due to the side-by-side arrangement of the ribbons.

Even better is to find used Goertz silver foil cables ...very transparent ICs with great resolution and soundstage...bass is pretty awesome too.