Is the Trinity DAC already Obsolete?

[NorthStar]

Yes I read all about it.

Here too? http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/249411-trinity-dac-discussion.html :b

 

[Ric Schultz]

I don't see a mess. I just see some cables. Look at my stuff if you want to see a mess. he he. Everything effects the sound. I am sure the "mess" Trinity kills most everything. It is really hard for me to look at something and not see something that could be "maybe" done better. Certainly the Mirus could use 2 8 channel DACs in parallel per channel like the Lumin S1.....they could use 4 discrete audio amps (one per phase) and no transformers or opamps or such....then better power supplies, better power supply parts, tweaking, etc. However, all things can be made better......it never ends. This is exactly the reason why digital is moving so quickly....there is so much yet to do. If you can take $7 AKM4490 DAC chip and put a single discrete output stage on it and beat the Mirus (Bliz's experience) then there is so much hope for really less expensive products to show up so we don't have to spend all this crazy money on digital. We can buy our wives something nice.

 

[Blizzard]

I don't see a mess. I just see some cables. Look at my stuff if you want to see a mess. he he. Everything effects the sound. I am sure the "mess" Trinity kills most everything. It is really hard for me to look at something and not see something that could be "maybe" done better. Certainly the Mirus could use 2 8 channel DACs in parallel per channel like the Lumin S1.....they could use 4 discrete audio amps (one per phase) and no transformers or opamps or such....then better power supplies, better power supply parts, tweaking, etc. However, all things can be made better......it never ends. This is exactly the reason why digital is moving so quickly....there is so much yet to do. If you can take $7 AKM4490 DAC chip and put a single discrete output stage on it and beat the Mirus (Bliz's experience) then there is so much hope for really less expensive products to show up so we don't have to spend all this crazy money on digital. We can buy our wives something nice.

I was just getting at the analog board connectors in the Mirus raised a concern, so I can just imagine Amir's take on the Trinity.

The Mirus does use 2 boards, 1 for each channel with all 8 DAC's per channel in parallel. But no not 4 chips like the Lumin. I asked Dustin about why he chose the AD797 IC opamps over a discrete design. He said the way he implemented them, it would be very difficult to beat with discrete. They are biased into class A. But The next gen replacement boards might be a different story. He has something very cool in the works, but haven't seen the circuit design.

That AK4490 DAC I'm testing is not just a simple chip on a discrete output stage. It's a state of the art DAC. You won't find anything better for under 10K. However I like it best in DSD direct mode, which is very close to chipless. So I figured why bother with the chip.

 

[BlueFox]

Any SOTA DAC is obsolete the day it is released. At the very best, it will sound as good as a soon to be released competitor DAC, but be more expensive.

 

[Ric Schultz]

Bliz,
You were doing so well.....here you go again.....So, you have A/Bed your 4490 thang with the latest version Empirical Audio DAC, the brand new DHT r2r DAC that I mentioned, the very latest less than 10K DHT DACs from Lampi, the brand new NOS r2r tube DAC from Border Patrol and found yours better? If not, then why would you make such a statement. Please keep to what you know and don't make up exaggerations. What latest state of the art less than $10,000 DACS have you listened to?

 

[Blizzard]

Bliz,
You were doing so well.....here you go again.....So, you have A/Bed your 4490 thang with the latest version Empirical Audio DAC, the brand new DHT r2r DAC that I mentioned, the very latest less than 10K DHT DACs from Lampi, the brand new NOS r2r tube DAC from Border Patrol and found yours better? If not, then why would you make such a statement. Please keep to what you know and don't make up exaggerations. What latest state of the art less than $10,000 DACS have you listened to?

No I haven't A/B'ed them with everything out there. But the guy who designed it did the DAC/Preamp section in the AAVIK U-300, and says this design is far superior. Much better clocks as well:

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2014/11/aavik-acoustics-u-300-unity-amplifier.html

I like it better than the Mirus, and I've compared the Mirus against several DAC's. Latest being the Devialet 400's. And the Mirus killed the Devialet. But I bet you'd never get the salesmen from the dealership to admit it online

 

[NorthStar]

That AK4490 DAC I'm testing is not just a simple chip on a discrete output stage. It's a state of the art DAC. You won't find anything better for under 10K. However I like it best in DSD direct mode, which is very close to chipless. So I figured why bother with the chip.

This is the new Marantz pre/pro that I have been following for some time now; with Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D, DTS:X, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and AK4490 DACs.
It's a 13.2-channel pre/pro with eleven channels playing simultaneously. MSRP: $4,000 but you can get for around $2,500 USD street.

? http://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20141226AK4490MARANTZ_001/

 

[Blizzard]

This is the new Marantz pre/pro that I have been following for some time now; with Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D, DTS:X, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and AK4490 DACs.
It's a 13.2-channel pre/pro with eleven channels playing simultaneously. MSRP: $4,000 but you can get for around $2,500 USD street.

? http://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20141226AK4490MARANTZ_001/

It's a nice chip I must say. Those will probably sound nice. Let me know if your looking for a DAC because I'm testing lots of killer prototypes lately. I might end up with a spare or 2.

 

[NorthStar]

It's a nice chip I must say. Those will probably sound nice. Let me know if your looking for a DAC because I'm testing lots of killer prototypes lately. I might end up with a spare or 2.

Hey, that sounds like a good plan. :b

 

[Elberoth]

This is the new Marantz pre/pro that I have been following for some time now; with Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D, DTS:X, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and AK4490 DACs.
It's a 13.2-channel pre/pro with eleven channels playing simultaneously. MSRP: $4,000 but you can get for around $2,500 USD street.

? http://www.akm.com/akm/en/aboutus/news/20141226AK4490MARANTZ_001/

It is never about a chip. It is always about the implementation. Buying a DAC simply 'cos it uses brand A chip, makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Blizzard]

It is never about a chip. It is always about the implementation. Buying a DAC simply 'cos it uses brand A chip, makes absolutely no sense.

Yes of course, but better chips can allow you to build a better DAC. This AK4490 is a great chip. Very silky smooth filter algorithms for the PCM. Much better SRC/SDM than the ESS 9018. And the DSD direct mode allows bypass to a simple low pass filter. But how my AK4490 DAC is implemented is its only using the DAC's low pass filter for a bit of the DSD filtering. The rest is filtered with high quality discrete circuitry incorporated into the pure class A output stage. So it's really a Hybrid low pass filter. When you listen to DSD through this thing, or PCM upsample to DSD 256, it's stunning.

 

[Elberoth]

I'm pretty sure there will be AK4490 designs that will sound awful, as the chip itself is no guarantee for a good sound. It is worth remembering, that the chip accounts only for 10-20% of the final sound quality, depending which designer you ask.

 

[Blizzard]

I'm pretty sure there will be AK4490 designs that will sound awful, as the chip itself is no guarantee for a good sound. It is worth remembering, that the chip accounts only for 10-20% of the final sound quality, depending which designer you ask.

Yes of course. But I have a feeling lower end Ak4490 implementations will be better received than lower end 9018 implementations. Simply due to the silky smooth SRC/SDM filters, and DSD direct mode.

People are saying it already about the cheap DIYINHK AK4490 kit. Much better than the 9018 kit, which is very close to the same thing besides the chip. I have one but haven't listened to it yet.

http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/68-768khz32bit-ak4490eq-dac-i2sdsd-input.html

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Will the MSB Select, or 'Aries Cerat Kassandra', possibly better the Trinity?

Challenge Accepted

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Challenge Accepted

can you supply me with a tracking number?

my zip code is 98006.

i'll be in Miami on business Sunday thru Wednesday.....so delivery any time after that.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

This is exciting - so we have an MSB select 2 confirmed, the Kassandra confirmed although I think we need the 2 box reference version, Trinity and Lampi already, just need a Vivaldi stack now and we have a Royal Rumble.

Looking forward to this. Presumably you have enough inputs on your Dart pre to wire them all in simultaneously? Perhaps we need them to send some additional racks?

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

can you supply me with a tracking number?

my zip code is 98006.

i'll be in Miami on business Sunday thru Wednesday.....so delivery any time after that.

Too soon Brother... I have CES with the full system then I can start sending out units for kung fu fights.

But I am in legitimately.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

This is exciting - so we have an MSB select 2 confirmed, the Kassandra confirmed although I think we need the 2 box reference version, Trinity and Lampi already, just need a Vivaldi stack now and we have a Royal Rumble.

Looking forward to this. Presumably you have enough inputs on your Dart pre to wire them all in simultaneously? Perhaps we need them to send some additional racks?

Nope. Reference will be sufficient. I have already tested it against a number of the aforementioned DACS

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Too soon Brother... I have CES with the full system then I can start sending out units for kung fu fights.

But I am in legitimately.

ok. we will see how things are later. best wishes at CES.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

This is exciting - so we have an MSB select 2 confirmed, the Kassandra confirmed although I think we need the 2 box reference version, Trinity and Lampi already, just need a Vivaldi stack now and we have a Royal Rumble.

Looking forward to this. Presumably you have enough inputs on your Dart pre to wire them all in simultaneously? Perhaps we need them to send some additional racks?

I think you are likely wrong about the MSB Select. I am doubtful that would ever happen. why would it? what would they have to gain? if it was me I would not do it. the Kassandra has nothing to lose. they need the pub.

yes and no about the inputs.

I only have one XLR input. and 3 RCA/zeel inputs. the other 2 inputs are 2 separate inside-the-pre phono sections. but more significantly, I only have one set of Tara Labs Grandmaster Evolution XLR's. the other set are RCA's for the GG. and those interconnects make a significant difference.

I could easily figure out the rack issues if I needed to. I have plenty of room. the tt could be moved temporarily.