Introducing the New HiFi Miser Forum-As discussed by Andre Marc

[amirm]

Absolutely and that is how I read it davey. On black Friday I bought 40 albums from prostudiomasters. I much rather discuss and share me experiences there than dealing with yet another argument on hardware. Right now we are 90% hardware and 10% music. Like to get to at least parity if not more.

I welcome our management team to share their opinions as much as other members.

 

[Blizzard]

Do you know how long will they keep you on DIYaudio?

I've been on there for 4 years. Besides a bit of bantering with Julf, an open minded crowd over there. The reason why is they are simply more knowledgeable and open minded. It takes that kind of person to want to get into DIY. Over here we have a huge crowd who's been educated by salesmen, and Stereophile AD's. They figure since they opened up their wallet and pissed a pile of money away on overpriced junk, they are now the "authority" on audio. Much harder to talk logic with this crowd.

 

[DaveyF]

Absolutely and that is how I read it davey. On black Friday I bought 40 albums from prostudiomasters. I much rather discuss and share me experiences there than dealing with yet another argument on hardware. Right now we are 90% hardware and 10% music. Like to get to at least parity if not more.

I welcome our management team to share their opinions as much as other members.

Amir, here's the thing of it...I fail to see why a post/thread about hardware has to be any differently treated than a post/thread about music. After all, we use the hardware to try and reproduce the music. Psychologically, we are more tied up in the fact that we made a 'purchase' decision with the hardware and like to have that validated for our 'egos'. However, I am fairly certain that we are all big boys here and can respond with some humility and logic when our particular piece of 'hardware' is under discussion...or, is that not the case?
To some, I know it is more difficult than for others, hopefully there will be some 'enlightenment' of this issue by those people as time goes by....it would be a healthy scenario, IMO.

 

[DaveyF]

I've been on there for 4 years. Besides a bit of bantering with Julf, an open minded crowd over there. The reason why is they are simply more knowledgeable and open minded. It takes that kind of person to want to get into DIY. Over here we have a huge crowd who's been educated by salesmen, and Stereophile AD's. They figure since they opened up their wallet and pissed a pile of money away on overpriced junk, they are now the "authority" on audio. Much harder to talk logic with this crowd.

Blizzard, you make a lot of assumptions that are at best...a) inflammatory and b) all encompassing. Perhaps, you too would be well advised to also read my post #197...

 

[Blizzard]

Blizzard, you make a lot of assumptions that are at best...a) inflammatory and b) all encompassing. Perhaps, you too would be well advised to also read my post #197...

I never claimed to be Dr Phil. My posts are intended for those who simply want the best audio for their dollar, with no BS period. If you are sugar coating, it's because you are hiding something. I'm 100% real and true to my word.

I'm on team George Carlin when it comes to method of delivery.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc

 

[DaveyF]

I never claimed to be Dr Phil. My posts are intended for those who simply want the best audio for their dollar, with no BS period.

That's nice. But then you post something like this: "Over here we have a huge crowd who's been educated by salesmen, and Stereophile AD's. They figure since they opened up their wallet and pissed a pile of money away on overpriced junk, they are now the "authority" on audio. Much harder to talk logic with this crowd."
Is that designed to please/impress the readership or perhaps you had something else in mind, lol..

 

[Blizzard]

That's nice. But then you post something like this: "Over here we have a huge crowd who's been educated by salesmen, and Stereophile AD's. They figure since they opened up their wallet and pissed a pile of money away on overpriced junk, they are now the "authority" on audio. Much harder to talk logic with this crowd."
Is that designed to please the readership or perhaps you had something else in mind, lol..

That's just a response after being fed up with the resistance I've been receiving from trying my best to politely offer solid, sound advice to help people get the best audio experience possible for their money.

Like come on here. Are these people for real? Or is this an episode of the twilight zone?

 

[DaveyF]

That's just a response after being fed up with the resistance I've been receiving from trying my best to politely offer solid, sound advice to help people get the best audio experience possible for their money.

Like come on here. Are these people for real? Or is this an episode of the twilight zone?

Blizzard, you might do well to remember that people from all walks of life and with many different experiences will visit these forums. Your experience and your understanding may be a little different than theirs. To belittle or to get frustrated with their opinions is easy to do ( and I think we have all done it to some extent or other), but again I think it best to have a open mind. You believe you are offering solid, sound advice...others may not be of that opinion. The fact is you're entitled to your opinion and they are entitled to theirs...I do not think it is so paramount that one has to deride the other....IMHO.

 

[Blizzard]

Blizzard, you might do well to remember that people from all walks of life and with many different experiences will visit these forums. Your experience and your understanding may be a little different than theirs. To belittle or to get frustrated with their opinions is easy to do ( and I think we have all done it to some extent or other), but again I think it best to have a open mind. You believe you are offering solid, sound advice...others may not of that opinion. The fact is you're entitled to your opinion and they are entitled to theirs...I do not think it is so paramount that one has to deride the other....IMHO.

I understand that, and it is perfectly fine. I'm just saying, don't crap on me for taking my time to help everyone out, if you don't know any better yourself to begin with. If I suggest something, I'll also back it up. I don't just spout out since less blabber. I've spent 20 years on this stuff. And i'm extremely anal and passionate when it comes to quality and attention to detail.

If I see a product that's solid like DaveC's Zenaudio cables, I'll praise it right till the end, and if I know of another suggestion that could benefit someone, I'll also speak my mind. I won't outright crap on a product, unless I have solid evidence that it's crap. And if I see that it's possible for an existing product to be easily improved upon, I'll point it out.

That's really about it. I don't see this behaviour harming anyone in the least bit. Manufacturers or consumers.

 

[NorthStar]

Welcome to What's Best Forum! Please consider joining our friendly and helpful community of enthusiasts where we discuss the best in audio and video to everything else we love from food to movies and music. We are proud of the professional conduct of our membership and strict moderation of the same, combined with high level of technical content shared by our members. If you want to learn and have fun doing it, or share what you know about our favorite hobbies without fear of antagonism, WBF forum is for you.

____________

I read the posts in this thread, and I quoted about a dozen of them and was going to reply with an opinion, mine.
But then I changed my mind because it wasn't the best way to advance; everything was off topic.
So instead I simply posted what Mike himself (above) posted in one of his previous posts of this thread. ...The most best solid foundation.

* If we lose respect we lose our dignity. ...In real life as in anywhere else.

 

[nc42acc]

Blizzard I made the conscience desicion to go with linear supplies in these amps just to see how they will perform. For really the reason you have made clear is that "everyone" else on the most part are using the switching supplies. If I don't like the results there is a good chance I will build another pair with the Hypex supplies. This is more of a hobbyist experiment for me than me looking for the absolute cutting edge. I guess I could do worse with my idle time.

Yes there's many ways to skin a cat, but when you look at the top systems that use the Ncore modules (Mola Mola, Bel Canto etc) you will notice they use the SMPS's. If coloration is desired, there's other ways to achieve this. Such as DSP algorithms designed to emulate different coloration profiles of tubes etc. Yes I know not what the "old school" crowd what's to hear, but reality when it comes to next gen tech. I've converted the stubbornest of the old school over at my place.

 

[microstrip]

I am with you Dave. And have been for the last couple of months. My interest is by far music and discover/learning of the same first, and any discussion of gear second. After some 15 years, I am on a new direction and mission. Would love to see our forum move in that direction given the fact that people can't just discuss audio hardware without getting too emotionally engaged.

Amir,

Curiously it is my not my view- my main interest in WBF is mostly gear, systems and rooms - with a strong emphasis in high-end, independently of price. I enjoy the posts on music and occasionally have contributed on these threads, but I have to say that for music I use many other sources.

During many years WBF was an wonderful place to share opinions about performance of gear and our preferences, our emotions as you say. I contributed a lot and learned a lot from it. I know you are the forum owner and moderator, but I am astonished why the forum must change direction because after 15 years YOU are in a new direction and mission.

IMHO it is your systematic "engineering" approach to audio hardware debates that is creating the situation you criticize. High-end, irrespective of cost, is emotionally driven. In this particular thread hypothesizing about photographs of equipment just supplies the sparks needed to ignite fire.

I appreciate if WBF is becoming ALSO a place where music is debated. But not at the cost of shutting down the gear/system sections.

BTW, I have been collecting music for more than 40 years - I still keep the LPs bought in my travels to HMV in London.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Amir,

Curiously it is my not my view- my main interest in WBF is mostly gear, systems and rooms - with a strong emphasis in high-end, independently of price. I enjoy the posts on music and occasionally have contributed on these threads, but I have to say that for music I use many other sources.

During many years WBF was an wonderful place to share opinions about performance of gear and our preferences, our emotions as you say. I contributed a lot and learned a lot from it. I know you are the forum owner and moderator, but I am astonished why the forum must change direction because after 15 years YOU are in a new direction and mission.

IMHO it is your systematic "engineering" approach to audio hardware debates that is creating the situation you criticize. High-end, irrespective of cost, is emotionally driven. In this particular thread hypothesizing about photographs of equipment just supplies the sparks needed to ignite fire.

I appreciate if WBF is becoming ALSO a place where music is debated. But not at the cost of shutting down the gear/system sections.

BTW, I have been collecting music for more than 40 years - I still keep the LPs bought in my travels to HMV in London.

+1.

I guess we will all watch to learn whether Amir's and Blizzard's views on gear discussions will continue to affect the direction for WBF and the overall balance of things. and what that means going forward for each of us. I know it's not working for me.

 

[treitz3]

Agreed, Mike. BTW, Blizzard.....you were never banned. If you were, you wouldn't have been posting.

Tom

 

[amirm]

+1.

I guess we will all watch to learn whether Amir's and Blizzard's views on gear discussions will continue to affect the direction for WBF and the overall balance of things. and what that means going forward for each of us. I know it's not working for me.

Thank you for sharing your frustrations with me/us. I have not heard what changes to the terms of service you are requesting. As you can imagine, we need to have a set of rules that apply to everyone as to be fair moderators and hosts of this forum.

Since you mention me by name, I have a personal question for you if you don't mind. In this thread there has been repeated insults thrown at me. Rodney has called me a Hyena and I don't know what else before that. And a bunch of other personal remarks which I find totally unkind and unprofessional. I have taken it in stride and even joked about some. Why did you not come to my defense in any of that? Is the discussion of gear in the manner you wish more important than our relationship as human beings? This is what Davey was asking in his post I believe. Your answer helps answer his question.

 

[kach22i]

You assume the person who made the annotation was the one who took the photo, this might not be the case.

No, you are wrong - again.

I simply followed the link and read what was written, had you done the same and not made your assumption, then we would not even have to discuss this.

Recap...............................................

As to other devices, I have already done that in another article. See: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18807-Inside-of-an-Audio-Video-Receiver-(AVR).

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18807-Inside-of-an-Audio-Video-Receiver-(AVR)

Hi guys. This is an article I wrote for Widescreen Review Magazine a few months ago. Hope you find it useful.

Inside Your AVR
Do you know what is inside your electronics? What is a DSP? The output stage? Power supply? FPGA? ASIC? Do these terms have any meaning? I suspect for many of you these are obscure terms. Yet, pick up the brochure for any audio/video product and such buzzwords abound. While it is impossible to convey the true nature of these technologies in an article like this, I think we can become more educated and at least have some high level understanding of what goes on inside your electronics. For this article, I am going to open the top of a premium AVR I purchased back in 2007. At the risk of stating the obvious, you are not going to become a design engineer from reading this one article. But rather, get you started on a journey to know more about what is under the hood and what type of design trade off a manufacturer may make. I hope to do the same with other electronic components in the future, helping explain some of the other commonplace technologies used in them.

Block Diagram
I have annotated the major subsystems of the unit in Figure 1. Let’s go through them one by one:.......................

For this article, I am going to open the top of a premium AVR I purchased back in 2007.

I think that it is clear that in this instance amirm looked inside the unit himself, and did not go off a photograph taken by someone else as his basis.

Repost of photo:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18807-Inside-of-an-Audio-Video-Receiver-(AVR)


Here is my order of preference for the record.

1. Myself opening equipment to see for myself.
2. Someone qualified (that I trust) opening the equipment and reporting what they see.
3. Clear photos to go off of.


Not on the list?

Not opening it at all, not even out of curiosity.

For the record, I don't try to fix it unless it's broken, and I don't open it up unless it's broken.

Guess that makes me more like Andre than I'd like to admit.

However, if I was doing a professional review and had either purchased the unit or had the manufacturers blessing on opening things up (even if they wanted to supervise), I would document what I saw and share any findings of interest.


Most likely I would not know much of what I was looking at, and would use a consultant to fill me and the readers in.

In a more collaborative world Andre would write his subjective piece on how it sounds, and have someone else like amirm (or equal) do the technical analysis.

I think that I've shared this story, but will repeat myself here. I once did an informal review of a speaker which I was fascinated by and posted the results on line - in this forum in fact. It was well worth the $20,000 at least compared to two other speakers in that range I have heard. However, there was an odd soundstage issue I could not get over, I even drew a diagram of what I heard in the room.

The owner of the shop (the exclusive dealer) was not happy with me, said that I "published" something unfavorable, could I please take it down. I took almost everything down but the diagrams, which I consider my privilege as an artist of sorts.

Anyway, long story; the owner later told me that I had (through listening alone) discovered that one of the drivers was wired out of phase. He sent the speakers back to get serviced, and the mistake was discovered. He thanked me, well not exactly, I think he's still frustrated by the whole incident to tell the truth.

I've never even attempted to review another piece of equipment there, the first time was too rough on everyone involved.

Andre's standards and methods are his own, and so are amirm's, I have respect and need for both.

What I do not respect is Andre's abusive attitude towards others.

This has got to stop, it just is not professional.

 

[amirm]

For this article, I am going to open the top of a premium AVR I purchased back in 2007.

Thanks George. So it is clear, I own not one but two of this identical AVR! Bought them both to do a comparison testing which I never completed. Then I put one of them in use in our living room system and used for probably 3 years until I swapped it out for a Pioneer. In the picture you posted the rectifier was absolutely touching the cap. After I took that picture I pulled it apart.

Even for large scale tests that I have done, I have used my own equipment. You can see a sample here where two thirds are sitting in my own home and a third borrowed from work:

I feel better this way as I don't feel guilty talking about gear this way because I have bought them and am entitle to share what I think of their design.

I think that it is clear that in this instance amirm looked inside the unit himself, and did not go off a photograph taken by someone else as his basis.

If anyone wants me to hold today's paper next to said gear, I am happy to do so. That is, if they still sell papers.

BTW I love your sketches. I had to take CAD drawing class in school and I almost flunked it. I can't draw worth a damn even if I am given a grid paper.

 

[DaveC]

n/m

 

[amirm]

I appreciate if WBF is becoming ALSO a place where music is debated. But not at the cost of shutting down the gear/system sections.

I apologize. I did not mean to imply that anything will be shut down. I just like to see more threads created and existing one appreciate more participation on music. Right now if one or two kind hearts did not keep the ones we have alive, we would become a 100% gear focused as far as current active threads. We talk about how it is "all about the music" but seemingly what we do here is "all about arguing about gear."

BTW, I have been collecting music for more than 40 years - I still keep the LPs bought in my travels to HMV in London.

I too have fond memories of HMV in London in 1970s. My jaw dropped the first time I went there when I lived in Brighton beach. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Unfortunately when we moved in 1980s I threw out my collection of LPs and that of my wife's. The only one that I kept was one of my all time favorite singles from "Boomtown Rats" ironically called "I don't like Mondays!"

But yes, I know you have lots of music and far more knowledge of them than me and many other members. So why not in the next few days think of ways you can share that experience with me and the rest of the membership? We would instantly go from adversaries to kindred friends. Think about it please.

 

[amirm]

Again? Lol... That photo was taken at the wrong angle to show they are touching. Look, I don't have time to go searching through other threads, I have a job(s) that keeps me busy, I shouldn't even be posting this.

Here is the simple answer Dave. I own that unit. I took it apart. And the rectifier was absolutely touching the caps.