Does Upgrading Cables Actually SAVE You Money?

[microstrip]

I heard the loom with Raidho top of the line, Soluution 710, and Vivaldi Stack. I replaced ICs and speaker cables by Ansuz - C. I liked the Ansuz. I also replaced them with Audience

I really trust you - although I am a believer of the theory that there are no absolute and firm rules in this hobby, I would never use Odin with such system - my audiophile genes say that they do not match! The system I was using was the opposite of what you are describing.

 

[bonzo75]

I really trust you - although I am a believer of the theory that there are no absolute and firm rules in this hobby, I would never use Odin with such system - my audiophile genes say that it does not match! The system I was using was the opposite of what you are describing.

Possible. Because they indeed did not match

 

[ddk]

IMHO you need a full set of Odin cables to appreciate Odin, not an isolated cable. I had a loan of such set for a few days when I owned the Aida's an they were impressive - they were really a very good match with the ARC's. But just the power cables was much more than what I could ever consider for all the system cabling.

I have heard the full Odin complement several times Francisco, my own personal views of its SQ aside and even if it worked as advertised I find the absurdity of Nordost's pricing impossible to reconcile. We'll see how you feel once you upgrade your ARC… (Edit) Which by the way will be less than the cost of a single Odin pc!

david

 

[NorthStar]

When I dropped less than $200 on a new digital cable from Mapleshade in my system my mind was telling me no way would it sound better than the $1000 Virtual Dynamics digital cable I was already using. Luckily I have two ears and one brain so my ears won the vote that contest. My mind was already made up that my current cable was superior and I just auditioned this one since I liked the other products I had tried from this vendor like his speaker stands and CD's. It took about 10 seconds for me to know that the new cable thrashed the one I was using. My ears outvoted my "logical" human psychology as well.

The VD cable went on Ebay and I had money left over for the new one. I know the placebo effect can happen. As for technical tools this is an interesting one, it helps reduce placebo effect and its free:

http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/

You trusted your ears just like millions of people. And that's the way to do it, like all who bought more expensive cables and enjoy a higher quality music listening experience.
I had speaker cables that cost me a dollar a foot back in the mid eighties, now I use some that cost $25 a foot. Lol, they cost more than my speakers on eBay.
But I cannot remember how the other less expensive pair was sounding, and my ears today are much different than 30 years ago.

If I would have a nice pair of hi-end speakers I would have enough juice to have a nice pair of hi-end speaker cables too, and I would do the same as you in the same circumstances.
Irregardless of measurements and what other people tell me. :b

We sure are our own masters when it comes to what our ears and own brain tell us. There is nothing wrong in being right. :b

 

[ddk]

Unfortunately, the way hifi is, there won't be a queue for American Sounds, but there will be for Odin 3. So might be quicker if you get first in queue for Odin 3, then take it over to David and do a swap

Guys, I'm not ready to swap yet !

david

 

[NorthStar]

By the way, for digital coaxial interconnects I use Canare 75 Ohm video cables with 75 Ohms video connectors, gold plated. And I use the shortest ones to go between my preamp and one CD player...half meter. Total cost: about twenty bucks (the plug connectors mainly). The Canare cables (made in Japan) are very inexpensive, like maybe 25 cents a foot, and to my ears they sound better than Monster digital interconnects @ $200/half meter.

Speaker cables: KK 8TC, before...Esoteric.
Interconnects (analog): KK Heros (half meter).
________

* In reading about Odin ? from Nordost, I just wish I was living in the Bermuda Triangle.

"Of course, such advances in performance come at a price. The Odin 2 power cords come in a 1.25-meter length for $16,999.99, with additional 1.25-meter increments adding $4999.99. Interconnects are $19,999.99 for the first half-meter and and an additional $2499.99 for each additional half-meter.

The phono cable is $11,999.99 for a 1.25-meter length, adding $3999.99 per additional meter. The digital cable is $10,999.99 for a 1.25 meter length and another $2999.99 for each 1.25-meter increment. Finally, the speaker cable is $29,999.00 for a one-meter pair, plus $3999.99 per each additional half-meter increment.

If these prices are out of your range, the trickle-down effect should shake up the lower ranges of Nordost cabling down the road."

 

[witchdoctor]

I have a Tice Power Block II. The one on Craigslist looks like mine, but perhaps it's a version I? My Tice is definitely great, still kicking after 25 years! The $100 sounds good, but shipping might cost you an arm and a leg -- it's heavy.

Thanks, I'll check on the shipping.

 

[thedudeabides]

When I dropped less than $200 on a new digital cable from Mapleshade in my system my mind was telling me no way would it sound better than the $1000 Virtual Dynamics digital cable I was already using. Luckily I have two ears and one brain so my ears won the vote that contest. My mind was already made up that my current cable was superior and I just auditioned this one since I liked the other products I had tried from this vendor like his speaker stands and CD's. It took about 10 seconds for me to know that the new cable thrashed the one I was using. My ears outvoted my "logical" human psychology as well.

Having once had a full Mapleshade wired system, I can understand your enthusiasm. They are very quick and very transparent. Despite his marketing, I like Pierre. I think he's a very smart guy.

Over time, I felt that there simply was not enough body, warmth and they became fatiguing.

I then went with DH Labs and their silver IC's. I'm now going with Shunyata. They present the "correct" balance for me in my room with my current gear. This process has taken me some six to seven years.

But I'm glad you found a winner. BTW, I am still a big fan of his brass footers.

It's obviously all subjective and system dependent.

 

[witchdoctor]

I have heard the full Odin complement several times Francisco, my own personal views of its SQ aside and even if it worked as advertised I find the absurdity of Nordost's pricing impossible to reconcile. We'll see how you feel once you upgrade your ARC… (Edit) Which by the way will be less than the cost of a single Odin pc!

david

I have not auditioned so cannot comment on Nordost. Just a comment that to get the best bang for the buck upgrade with cables you do not have to spend a lot of money. I imagine some customers must have been happy with Odin 1 for them to have a "sequel" but both versions are out of my budget. This is why I like forums like this to compare notes and hopefully narrow down choices on the audition process.

 

[witchdoctor]

When I dropped less than $200 on a new digital cable from Mapleshade in my system my mind was telling me no way would it sound better than the $1000 Virtual Dynamics digital cable I was already using. Luckily I have two ears and one brain so my ears won the vote that contest. My mind was already made up that my current cable was superior and I just auditioned this one since I liked the other products I had tried from this vendor like his speaker stands and CD's. It took about 10 seconds for me to know that the new cable thrashed the one I was using. My ears outvoted my "logical" human psychology as well.

Having once had a full Mapleshade wired system, I can understand your enthusiasm. They are very quick and very transparent. Despite his marketing, I like Pierre. I think he's a very smart guy.

Over time, I felt that there simply was not enough body, warmth and they became fatiguing.

I then went with DH Labs and their silver IC's. I'm now going with Shunyata. They present the "correct" balance for me in my room with my current gear. This process has taken me some six to seven years.

But I'm glad you found a winner. BTW, I am still a big fan of his brass footers.

It's obviously all subjective and system dependent.

Thanks for posting, it is interesting to compare notes with someone who is familiar with the same brand for comparison purposes. I have read a lot of good reviews on both Shunyata and DH Labs. I remember when I was shopping for speaker stands and I was going to order the rooted buttress from Mapleshade and I called to place an order. Instead of upselling me Pierre convinced me the bedrock stands were better and they were also much less expensive. I had never been "down sold" by a vendor before. Fortunately I took his advice and am still using those stands 10 years later. Plus they are easier to move

 

[witchdoctor]

First thank you for starting what has proved to be a very good thread.
I can't comment on the Tice but I have used for years an Audience Aspect AR8 passive power conditioner which also serves as a distribution block, I've been very pleased with it and am about to upgrade the power cable to it with a high power AU24SE cable. Used ones do come up for sale but rather more than the Tice and they are available in different sizes.

Hi Barry. As a newbie to this forum I appreciate the comment on the thread and am happy to see so many points of view.

 

[DaveC]

You're being too modest Dave, you haven't caught up to the fantasy !

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/highend2015/highend2015_nordost.htm

david

Wow.. Well, the market follows the economy and we're seeing a "sky's the limit" market for luxury goods emerging. I'm not sure what to think as often products targeting this market are just expensive for expensive's sake. I can tell, you not every designer is happy to make products intended for this market but they do it anyways as they are running a business. Cables costing as much as cars is over the top and almost incomprehensible to me though!

My market is direct sale and value oriented, I don't have glossy brochures, advertise in big mags, or send you your cables in a $200 flight boxes. Kind of diametric opposites with the big companies top end products, but I always welcome comparisons as they usually go well for me.

 

[witchdoctor]

Wow.. Well, the market follows the economy and we're seeing a "sky's the limit" market for luxury goods emerging. I'm not sure what to think as often products targeting this market are just expensive for expensive's sake. I can tell, you not every designer is happy to make products intended for this market but they do it anyways as they are running a business. Cables costing as much as cars is over the top and almost incomprehensible to me though!

My market is direct sale and value oriented, I don't have glossy brochures, advertise in big mags, or send you your cables in a $200 flight boxes. Kind of diametric opposites with the big companies top end products, but I always welcome comparisons as they usually go well for me.

I see this same thing in the headphone market. 10 years ago top of the line headphones from a company like Sennheiser were less than $500. Once Beats came out and over the ear cans became "cool" that market has just climbed over $1000 for top line cans and approaching $2000 with a ton more vendors getting into the act with dramatic packaging, etc. I have also seen an explosion in headphone amps, both portable and desktop along with prices going higher as well.

 

[NorthStar]

When I dropped less than $200 on a new digital cable from Mapleshade in my system my mind was telling me no way would it sound better than the $1000 Virtual Dynamics digital cable I was already using. Luckily I have two ears and one brain so my ears won the vote that contest. My mind was already made up that my current cable was superior and I just auditioned this one since I liked the other products I had tried from this vendor like his speaker stands and CD's. It took about 10 seconds for me to know that the new cable thrashed the one I was using. My ears outvoted my "logical" human psychology as well.

Having once had a full Mapleshade wired system, I can understand your enthusiasm. They are very quick and very transparent. Despite his marketing, I like Pierre. I think he's a very smart guy.
Over time, I felt that there simply was not enough body, warmth and they became fatiguing.
I then went with DH Labs and their silver IC's. I'm now going with Shunyata. They present the "correct" balance for me in my room with my current gear. This process has taken me some six to seven years.
But I'm glad you found a winner. BTW, I am still a big fan of his brass footers.
It's obviously all subjective and system dependent.

Thanks for posting, it is interesting to compare notes with someone who is familiar with the same brand for comparison purposes. I have read a lot of good reviews on both Shunyata and DH Labs. I remember when I was shopping for speaker stands and I was going to order the rooted buttress from Mapleshade and I called to place an order. Instead of upselling me Pierre convinced me the bedrock stands were better and they were also much less expensive. I had never been "down sold" by a vendor before. Fortunately I took his advice and am still using those stands 10 years later. Plus they are easier to move

Pierre likes to suspend all his cables.

* I have few of his music recordings on CDs; they sound awesome! ...With real presence and clarity. ...Audiophile recordings for sure; and his recording techniques are unique.

 

[NorthStar]

I see this same thing in the headphone market. 10 years ago top of the line headphones from a company like Sennheiser were less than $500. Once Beats came out and over the ear cans became "cool" that market has just climbed over $1000 for top line cans and approaching $2000 with a ton more vendors getting into the act with dramatic packaging, etc. I have also seen an explosion in headphone amps, both portable and desktop along with prices going higher as well.

 

[microstrip]

Pierre likes to suspend all his cables.

(...)

* I have few of his music recordings on CDs; they sound awesome! ...With real presence and clarity. ...Audiophile recordings for sure; and his recording techniques are unique.

Yes, they sound great - a few of my favorite CDs are from Mapleshade. The video you linked has a very interesting comment on the CD player - Peter says it is "kind" and refers to its "kindness" , although being of high resolution. I have often used his CDs when looking for any aggressiveness in sound - their clarity as you say is given by the high resolution and many unique spatial clues, but it seems the recording is under strong lighting! Besides the technical quality IMHO they have excellent musical quality.

It was great to know about Pierre ventures in hardware, thanks a lot!

 

[thedudeabides]

The Mapleshade "Clifford Jordan / Live at Ethels" is a must have live recorded jazz based CD. Great music and great sound.

Despite his quirkiness and unconventional approaches, Pierre does have his followers for very good reasons.

 

[NorthStar]

Yes, they sound great - a few of my favorite CDs are from Mapleshade. The video you linked has a very interesting comment on the CD player - Peter says it is "kind" and refers to its "kindness" , although being of high resolution. I have often used his CDs when looking for any aggressiveness in sound - their clarity as you say is given by the high resolution and many unique spatial clues, but it seems the recording is under strong lighting! Besides the technical quality IMHO they have excellent musical quality.

It was great to know about Pierre ventures in hardware, thanks a lot!

Good morning Francisco (morning here),

Pierre uses a custom build wood panel shape (plywood board) behind the mike @ an angle...of roughly 45° and uses it as a "cavity"... or some' like that...you can google and find more. I feel lazy right now. :b

If you guys want presence and clarity, from this superb xylophone musician player...John Cocuzzi...get this album, recorded by Pierre Sprey:
{Mapleshade and Wildchild! are the same record label.}

* All Pierre's interconnects and speaker wires are suspended in mid-air; his speaker wires are elevated above floor level @ some of the highest I have ever seen.
Except for another guy who have them (his speaker wires) near the ceiling! ...Amir posted a picture of his setup once...I don't know if I can locate it...
____________

? Saving money is very relative: No matter what, upgrading our music listening experience from more or less expensive cables has more to do with our joy in life than our bank account. Nonetheless, electrical experts (Bell, and others) have scientific papers mentioning the important characteristics of electric audio signal transfers/conduits.
If the cable conform to the standards of electric wires, the majority do, then you simply match them to the rest of your system, and circuit breaker box, and electrical wires going from your house to the posts outside hanging the electric wires in the streets leading to the nearest main power grid, going to the nearest turbines or from a water dam or from other energy central nuclear facility. A $50,000/pair of speaker wires or interconnects might sound different for the better to your ears...and with good explanation...they are an equalizer to the rest of your setup. And audiophile purists hate any type of equalizers in their system; they diminish the signals integrity/purity, and the total money inside your bank account.

If you really want to EQ, use Dirac Live or something like that...with acoustic room treatments. A solid pair of speaker wires and interconnects with good solid purity copper inside doesn't cost fifty grands; $50 to $55 (more or less) would do. The important point is to have good solid contacts, and well terminated ends. ...So that no corrosion to air elements can enter. I am from the school where once in a while it's good to disconnect all your power, disconnect all your cables, and clean all the end contacts with a $10 cleaner kit. ...Inside your speaker binding posts when using bananas, and outside for spade lugs. ...Also inside your female RCA jacks, and the male RCA pins. ...Good lube is inexpensive; three bucks @ your drugstore...isopropyl 99% alcohol. ...And a box of Q-Tips, two bucks. ...Five bucks total...and you do that...once every couple years...and it will sound like a million buck upgrade in all your cables.

In this audio hobby/passion/business, I like to use common sense and real value.
And the most important aspect of them all...is in the music ? quality recordings themselves.

Last, experimentation is key to emancipation. ...Discoveries in science are made from experiments...and from them we acquire higher knowledge.
Knowledge is free. Elevation is a revelation.

 

[NorthStar]

? https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rem...6241-mapleshade-records-wedge-microphone.html

• http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/main/audiophile.php
• http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/mapleshade_records_e.html

• http://jazztimes.com/articles/14124-high-end-recording-engineers
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[NorthStar]

Pierre Sprey is much more than a music audiophile recording engineer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Sprey
- http://sploid.gizmodo.com/the-designer-of-the-f-16-explains-why-the-f-35-is-such-1591828468
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