OPPO and HDCD

[amirm]

It is trivial to create a digital 20 or 24 bit stream from HDCD in software/DSP. It is what happens even in HDCD analog output. The signal is not dither. But is random enough to act like one. It is an embedded signal that is decoded to extend the bit depth. So if Oppo says they output 20 bits, then that is completely reasonable and safe assumption that they are decoding and outputting the stream.

 

[NorthStar]

Then no need for an external DAC with HDCD decoding? ...When using the digital connections.

That's new to me, as all my players need an external DAC with an HDCD decoder chip inside, even my players with already HDCD decoders inside.
...Analog no problem, of course.
That Oppo HDCD toggle switch has some "DSP Magic" attached to it then?

But wait a minute! All my other HDCD players are always hot; meaning that the digital out send the HDCD audio signal always ON.
And I still need to decode it @ the other end (DAC, preamp, pre/pro, receiver) with HDCD decoding for full playback benefits, right?

 

[amirm]

I don't understand your question Bob. What I am saying is that the HDCD process is purely digital. It has nothing to do with DACs. It embeds extra bits in 16 bits for backward CD compatibility at creation time and does the reverse at playback time. Both conversions are signal processing algorithms and are therefore just software. Therefore outputting the stream by branching from the data path from internal DAC is perfectly feasible and possible.

 

[NorthStar]

Ok,
1. I play an HDCD encoded CD in my Rotel RCD-991 CD/HDCD player.
2. The small red HDCD light lights up.
3. I have the full audio benefits from its analog output connected to my SSP's analog input sans HDCD decoder.
4. I now switch to its digital coaxial output, from my SSP's coaxial input (audio select), what do I get? ...Remember, my SSP does NOT have HDCD decoding.

Now everything the same, but this time around with my Oppo BDP-103 BR player (with internal HDCD decoding).
And the HDCD toggle switch always ON.

 

[rbbert]

...But wait a minute! All my other HDCD players are always hot; meaning that the digital out send the HDCD audio signal always ON.
And I still need to decode it @ the other end (DAC, preamp, pre/pro, receiver) with HDCD decoding for full playback benefits, right?

Other than Oppo, I don't know what those players' digital outs are, you will need to check with the manufacturer

 

[NorthStar]

? http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...more-hdcd-cds-what-dac-to-get-for-them.194959 ===> Read post #20

That is very clear...and what I have known for several years...since 1996. ....About HDCD, and Oppo players are no different.

 

[rbbert]

As should be clear to you by now, that post is (simply) wrong. If you need more information or clarification, Oppo customer service and technical support is excellent, although on a holiday weekend you may not get a prompt response.

edit: or just read down to post #24 in the thread you linked at the SH Forums.

 

[NorthStar]

Robert, I like and respect Oppo, but I don't fully trust them. ...I am not yet done in my research.

 

[amirm]

Ok,
1. I play an HDCD encoded CD in my Rotel RCD-991 CD/HDCD player.
2. The small red HDCD light lights up.
3. I have the full audio benefits from its analog output connected to my SSP's analog input sans HDCD decoder.
4. I now switch to its digital coaxial output, from my SSP's coaxial input (audio select), what do I get? ...Remember, my SSP does NOT have HDCD decoding.

"Nobody knows" Bob. There is no requirement for the player to send processed HDCD stream. You could or could not get decoded stream depending on what the player manufacturer decided to do.

The point is that it can and if Oppo says it does, and there is an observation of it doing so, then that is the case.

 

[NorthStar]

"Nobody knows" Bob. There is no requirement for the player to send processed HDCD stream. You could or could not get decoded stream depending on what the player manufacturer decided to do.

The point is that it can and if Oppo says it does, and there is an observation of it doing so, then that is the case.

Then Christian asked one of the most interesting questions of this digital age and on this side of What's Best. :b
It has me searching with passionate vigor, and that, it's what it's all about to pierce the door of audio knowledge deeper.

__________

P.S. Sorry for the small OT; I looked but couldn't find it...Is there an Obituary Forums section? ...I want to pay my respect and homage to Andre (Mr.Acoustat).
...Cannot find the thread, and usually I'm pretty good @ finding what I'm looking for.

 

[rockitman]

"Nobody knows" Bob. There is no requirement for the player to send processed HDCD stream. You could or could not get decoded stream depending on what the player manufacturer decided to do.

The point is that it can and if Oppo says it does, and there is an observation of it doing so, then that is the case.

So the consensus is...if I play an HDCD in my oppo and send the digital out (coax) to a non HDCD DAC, The music from the DAC will be properly HDCD decoded even though the outboard DAC does not decode HDCD ?

 

[Ronm1]

So the consensus is...if I play an HDCD in my oppo and send the digital out (coax) to a non HDCD DAC, The music from the DAC will be properly HDCD decoded even though the outboard DAC does not decode HDCD ?

If the sw is enabled.

 

[rockitman]

If the sw is enabled.

meaning the OPPO player has HDCD enabled ? I will be trying this soon. The oppo unit sounds okay. My DAC sounds better so if I can output decoded HDCD music from the oppo to my DAC via coax, I will be a happy camper.

 

[rbbert]

As I posted earlier, if you have an HDCD with Peak Extend, it's very to tell what the Oppo is doing, because the decoded stream will be significantly quieter (i.e., lower volume), since HDCD drops the volume by 6 dB compared to the undecoded stream.

 

[accwai]

meaning the OPPO player has HDCD enabled ? I will be trying this soon. The oppo unit sounds okay. My DAC sounds better so if I can output decoded HDCD music from the oppo to my DAC via coax, I will be a happy camper.

There is a switch under the "Audio Format Setup" menu on the Oppo. If it's "Off", HDCD signal is sent to the DAC. If it's "On", the DAC no longer sees HDCD. I would assume that means the Oppo has turned HDCD into longer than 16-bit output. I just tested the above with an Oppo 95 and a Berkeley Alpha DAC.

 

[Ronm1]

That's what I grasp from the thread. TBH I don't know of any other players that have this on/off capability, plus analog out was the only bus affected if one had HDCD capability.

 

[NorthStar]

There is a switch under the "Audio Format Setup" menu on the Oppo. If it's "Off", HDCD signal is sent to the DAC.
If it's "On", the DAC no longer sees HDCD. I would assume that means the Oppo has turned HDCD into longer than 16-bit output. I just tested the above with an Oppo 95 and a Berkeley Alpha DAC.

Yes, un-decoded, as is, pure digital audio stream. If the external receiving DAC has no HDCD capablity to decode the audio stream, then no benefits.
And with the switch ON, then use the analog connections. Then you get HDCD decoded by the Oppo, with full benefits.

* Next Tuesday (Monday I have an important appointment) I will check with Oppo directly. ...And meanwhile I'll ask some of my expert buddies @ another audio site. ...But I already know their answers. And that's the one right here just above, in red.

 

[NorthStar]

I did more research, and I am re-posting the first link first; read it carefully. ...The first paragraph after the 1. and 2. points. ...And not the last paragraph.
... "If you are using analog outputs for audio, ..... performing HDCD decoding on its own."

? Knowledge Base: When to Enable HDCD Decoding | Oppo BDP-95

Now some additional info:

? www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=84050.470;wap2 => Post by travelfotografer

? www.head-fi.org/t/357621/hdcd-playback-options-for-hardware-decoding-and-digital-output

_________

? http://watershade.net/wmcclain/BDP-...cd-light-on-my-receiver-flickering-on-and-off

 

[Ronm1]

IMHO this thread is a perfect example of the site. A user feature that changes previous Assumed device conventions, that again IMHO now better explained and understood, turns into a very very nice perk.

 

[TBone]

As I posted earlier, if you have an HDCD with Peak Extend, it's very to tell what the Oppo is doing, because the decoded stream will be significantly quieter (i.e., lower volume), since HDCD drops the volume by 6 dB compared to the undecoded stream.

On many a HDCD player I've heard ... you can actually tell which HDCD CD utilized peak extend - before playing: the player/dac will sound a tiny, but audible click (like a relay), but only with peak-extend enabled disks.

I noticed this moons ago, I returned one HDCD player to the store because of this click. They initially had no idea what I was talking about, but when I took it back and pointed it out, it became obvious to everyone. So, we tested every HDCD player in the store, same "problem." Of course it's not a problem, and perhaps I shouldn't have made such a fuss over it ... so I went home with the same unit.

The PM HDCD recorders were good even without specific HDCD features enabled. Some of the craft labels, such as RR/FIM, well, they sound so damn fine that it makes the entire digital vs analog debate seem moot. But many non-craft HDCD disks I own, like Atlantic Records for example, they don't tend to impress nearly as much. In fact, it's often cut based ... each individual track can sound different. Some offer PE, others not. On others, the HDCD light would turn on/off depending on the track. I even had one classical recording in which the light went off mid track/performance.

Plus not all HDCD players were created equal ... like nearly everything else in audio, HDCD was/is a moving target.