Zero Distortion: Vyger

[bonzo75]

Kedar comments on this would be interesting ..

My comments are in my write up “I can recommend this wholeheartedly to potential buyers on sonic grounds. You can contact your local distributor or Vyger if you need help with set up, and also to understand the service in your geographical area – how, if required, to service pumps and motors where you are located. With such a turntable, service needs to be paramount from both the manufacturing and the distribution team.”. I also included videos which show what is different to the set up of vyger as shown by Giuseppe

 

[spiritofmusic]

Kedar comments on this would be interesting ..

Why? He hasn't owned one. Surely long term owners and ex owners experiences are the only thing that matters. I know just how stellar Vyger is having heard it twice now. But I have zero idea about l/t reliability issues.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Well he did a write up on the Table , talks about them when ranking , his thoughts would be interesting , you don't have to own something to have an opinion , or to say what you know , so no owning is not the only thing that matters , his interactive experiences count ..


Regards

 

[MRubey]

Well Sir,
I have owned five different Vyger decks and they were all very different levels of frustrating issues.

I would no longer recommend them simply because they are too variable in outcome. I do not have the time or the patience

For their lack of diligence when addressing issues that will occur. The Ars Machinae or the AS2000 with the Ars Machinae tonearm.

The STST Motus II with the Viv Labs or the Supratrac, great combinations in my opinion.

If you are minded toward the Vyger please get it right and involve the retailor and the distributor(Ideally Bob in the States).

Sonically wonderful when one acquires a good one.

Kindest regards,G.

Good morning zerostargeneral,
Your dedication to this ultimately failed relationship is amazing. 5 decks!
You obviously found something about it worth the effort, until it wasn't.
That in itself is intriguing.
I live in San Antonio. Rhapsody has a location in Dallas.
A mere 4-5 hrs away.
I am a firm believer in the Einstein axiom that things should be as simple as possible but not simpler.

 

[Lagonda]

Good morning zerostargeneral,
Your dedication to this ultimately failed relationship is amazing. 5 decks!
You obviously found something about it worth the effort, until it wasn't.
That in itself is intriguing.
I live in San Antonio. Rhapsody has a location in Dallas.
A mere 4-5 hrs away.
I am a firm believer in the Einstein axiom that things should be as simple as possible but not simpler.

Maybe some of the reliability issues with VYGER has been solved with the Titan air management system, standard on the latest TT's ?

 

[zerostargeneral]

Dear MRubey,

I very much hope that you are able to work with Rhapsody should you plump for a Vyger.

They will surely advise you and guide you through any issues that may arise. If I could guarantee a properly built, vacuum hold working, vernier working, levelling fully working Atlantis.........? I would buy one.

Kindest regards,G.

 

[MRubey]

Dear MRubey,

I very much hope that you are able to work with Rhapsody should you plump for a Vyger.

They will surely advise you and guide you through any issues that may arise. If I could guarantee a properly built, vacuum hold working, vernier working, levelling fully working Atlantis.........? I would buy one.

Kindest regards,G.

Thank you sir,
I very much appreciate your candor.
When I asked the initial questions about difficulty of ownership I didn’t expect that it would be about such issues as yours. I was curious if just the complication of the whole turntable system, working perfectly, was a deterrent. As I sited, somewhere in these threads I had come across someone who had problems with condensation in the compressor and hoses. I see this all the time in oxygen lines and when I had pneumatic tools. In my experience layers of complication can be experienced in two basic ways. To either engage the tinkerer in us and be seen as interesting problems to be solved increasing the fun factor in that way or as additional stress.
Im pretty good at setting up a cartridge and do not shy from changing them when I feel the desire. But I know a whole lot more about your biology than the mechanics of machines.
All of that said, leaning into my comfort zone and engaging the learning curve is calling to me. If I went down this road I would definitely develop those relationships with the dealer in Dallas. Finances are not quite there yet but in about 18 months to 2 yrs they should be. Thank you again. This is actually quite fascinating.

 

[strappoacustico]

Why? He hasn't owned one. Surely long term owners and ex owners experiences are the only thing that matters. I know just how stellar Vyger is having heard it twice now. But I have zero idea about l/t reliability issues.

Well he did a write up on the Table , talks about them when ranking , his thoughts would be interesting , you don't have to own something to have an opinion , or to say what you know , so no owning is not the only thing that matters , his interactive experiences count ..


Regards

Well he did a write up on the Table , talks about them when ranking , his thoughts would be interesting , you don't have to own something to have an opinion , or to say what you know , so no owning is not the only thing that matters , his interactive experiences count ..


Regards

"..you don't have to own something to have an opinion..." maybe... but I have some difficulty in giving the same weight to the opinions expressed by those who have owned the product, have lived with it for some time, compared to those he listened to it for a few hours at someone's home, he formed an opinion by reading authoritative reviews or even from videos on YouTube. It's all legitimate, but I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding...maybe that's why zerostargeneral's position seems dramatically logical and correct to me.

 

[Audiohertz2]

It’s not difficult really , you either have an opinion or not , is there an issue or not to your knowledge ?

It’s academic regarding the opinions of actual owners vs yours , I’m not asking you to negate their position or anyone else’s position , someone as well travelled and informed as yourself would be interesting to hear your take .


Thats all ..!

 

[BjörnÖsten]

Well Sir,
I have owned five different Vyger decks and they were all very different levels of frustrating issues.

I would no longer recommend them simply because they are too variable in outcome. I do not have the time or the patience

For their lack of diligence when addressing issues that will occur. The Ars Machinae or the AS2000 with the Ars Machinae tonearm.

The STST Motus II with the Viv Labs or the Supratrac, great combinations in my opinion.

If you are minded toward the Vyger please get it right and involve the retailor and the distributor(Ideally Bob in the States).

Sonically wonderful when one acquires a good one.

Kindest regards,G.

Hey guys,

I see that there has been some great discussions around our range of turntables.

Zerostar, I am truly sorry that you had some issues with our product, I am not sure if you have heard our product with the new TITAN controller, but I am sure that someone such as yourself would appreciate the nuanced differences between the systems.

With respect to your comments of 5 previous different Vyger decks, had you purchased them through second user channels, as looking at our records it seems some of these were purchased for customers during your distributorship. I am sure that this conflation of fact is an oversight on your part, and welcome any clarification on your part so we can perhaps look at the situation from an informed position in order to respond more substantively.

As with all companies on the cutting edge of technology, VYGER is constantly evolving products with the aim of improving performance and reliability, as such we would welcome any structured technical feedback you can provide as to the specific issues you stated in substitution to the anecdotal general comments made in your post, as you stated you would no longer recommend our products. I would be very interested in knowing why, save as to your no longer being the distributor, as this information regarding your customer experience will be useful in the future.

The TITAN system is just part of the evolution made over the past couple of years, we have also completely analysed our manufacturing process and refined our workflow in order to ensure high repeatability and reduce tolerances, which were already in single digit microns.

Less myopically, VYGER has a plethora of very happy customer who have not had the issues or frustrations stated by Zerostar, including our very good friend Byrdio. We are constantly improving our customer experience and pride ourselves in the relations we make, purchasing a VYGER is becoming part of the VYGER family.

Thanks

B

 

[andrewbrownstone]

Hey guys,

I see that there has been some great discussions around our range of turntables.

Zerostar, I am truly sorry that you had some issues with our product, I am not sure if you have heard our product with the new TITAN controller, but I am sure that someone such as yourself would appreciate the nuanced differences between the systems.

With respect to your comments of 5 previous different Vyger decks, had you purchased them through second user channels, as looking at our records it seems some of these were purchased for customers during your distributorship. I am sure that this conflation of fact is an oversight on your part, and welcome any clarification on your part so we can perhaps look at the situation from an informed position in order to respond more substantively.

As with all companies on the cutting edge of technology, VYGER is constantly evolving products with the aim of improving performance and reliability, as such we would welcome any structured technical feedback you can provide as to the specific issues you stated in substitution to the anecdotal general comments made in your post, as you stated you would no longer recommend our products. I would be very interested in knowing why, save as to your no longer being the distributor, as this information regarding your customer experience will be useful in the future.

The TITAN system is just part of the evolution made over the past couple of years, we have also completely analysed our manufacturing process and refined our workflow in order to ensure high repeatability and reduce tolerances, which were already in single digit microns.

Less myopically, VYGER has a plethora of very happy customer who have not had the issues or frustrations stated by Zerostar, including our very good friend Byrdio. We are constantly improving our customer experience and pride ourselves in the relations we make, purchasing a VYGER is becoming part of the VYGER family.

Thanks

B

As the owner of both a VYGER Atlantis and an Indian (2 arms) and a TITAN system I can confirm that in their current guise they are very formidable and accurate turntables. Vyger have the ability to track grooves accurately but in a very musical manner. Everything is system dependent. So your cartridge is important. I use a Red Sparrow on one arm and a Mysonic Platinum Signature on the other (Inertial Arm).
into my Aesthetix 3 box Io Eclipse tube Phonostage using Vida Cables, I have a great source. Using my current Audio Music or VAC or Thomas Mayer (or a choice of many other amps) into my TAD Reference One speakers I enjoy a remarkable lifelike musical experience. I use other turntables (one of my preferred choices being a DaVinci Gabriel MK II).
But the point I feel compelled to make is that the VYGER turntables in their current form provide an accurate uncoloured source, vibration free and are a joy to behold.
To compare the Indian to the Atlantis I would observe that the former provides an even deeper base response whilst the latter is no slouch.
in life you pay your money and you make your choice. The cost of anything is the Opportunity Cost or what else could I get for the same amount of money. The VYGER offerings at their price points are hard to beat.

 

[byrdparis]

i was ordering my VYGER this year (so i guess its the latest version) and live with it almost 4-5 month now (not a lot of time per se, but with me listening to analog for 70% of my 10hours a day it equal for a long time IMHO)

Like I said numerous times before, the final production this year with the New TiTAN is an amazing machine and a magnificent turntable.
(it needs to have some knowledge, precision, and experience to do it, no doubt) Well setting up of turntable, arms and TiTan is obviously crucial but that is true to every analog system that we have. and I have yet to have any issues, not once.
In a matter of fact it was and still is Perfect! beyond any expectation and well above any Analog system that i have or had before (and i had many!),
to the counter suggestions that have been floating here, i am urging one that wants the Ultimate TT and arm system - to listen or/and consider V.y.g.e.r TT into a very short list....
for the costs, i cant believe anyone will get a better system.
I was floored when I first listened to it and I have been floored every day since I got it.
my 2c

 

[MRubey]

I’m curious about Atlantis vs Clearaudio Master Innovation with TT1 MI.
My research indicates a direct comparison doesn’t exist anywhere easily found.
They appear to be each others best competitor. They both have well evolved LTers and share price.
Maybe one of you has direct experience of both.
Thank you.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I’m curious about Atlantis vs Clearaudio Master Innovation with TT1 MI.
My research indicates a direct comparison doesn’t exist anywhere easily found.
They appear to be each others best competitor. They both have well evolved LTers and share price.
Maybe one of you has direct experience of both.
Thank you.

I would say the Kuzma XL AIR TT with both the Safir9 Tonearm and Kuzma Air Line Tonearm fitted vs the latest Vyger Atlantis IV Generation would be a great A to B review comparison !

 

[Bobvin]

Regarding the Kuzma vs Vyger… in my reading of reviews of the Kuzma the air pump is quite loud and recommended be placed in another room if possible. Comes with 25m of tube. Vyger with Titan pump/controller is almost silent can easily reside near equipment rack.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Regarding the Kuzma vs Vyger… in my reading of reviews of the Kuzma the air pump is quite loud and recommended be placed in another room if possible. Comes with 25m of tube. Vyger with Titan pump/controller is almost silent can easily reside near equipment rack.

Yes, that could certainly be a big plus in favour for the Vyger for the majority of persons who don't have a dedicated / designated cupboard or small room for the Kuzma Air Pump to isolate it's noise (depending on it's actual loudness i.e. assuming it is so loud it will inhibit the pleasures of listening to music being played).

 

[Bobvin]

The Vyger operates generally at just under 1 bar pressure, the Kuzma appears to be ~ 4 bar. (14 vs 56 psi) I don’t know much about Kuzma LT arm, at what pressures it operates at. In conversation with Giuseppe @ Vyger, the air pressure of the Vision tonearm has a very big impact on transients—too little transients are too soft, too much and delicacy and nuance are lost.

Also, Kuzma needs separate pump for the LT arm.

I am in no way dissing on the Kuzma. I haven‘t seen one much less heard one. Just noting specifications differences.

Given the reputation of Kuzma I am sure is a formidable table, as are many. Besides technical approaches and execution ultimately the sound is the defining point, and the Vyger tables deliver unlike other tables I have heard which I’m sure is a fraction of some of the more experienced people on this forum. No other component has brought more “realism” to my rig. Very different from speakers or pre-amps or cables, the Atlantis really put a gap between my analog and digital sources. Everyone of my buddies who has listened has come away saying they could not imagine a deck could have such an impact. Better, sure, more weight, gravitas etc., sure again — but there is something more “real” when you listen that keeps you mesmerized, toe tapping, and smiling.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

The Vyger operates generally at just under 1 bar pressure, the Kuzma appears to be ~ 4 bar. Also, Kuzma needs separate pump for the LT arm.

Two more pluses for the Vyger !

 

[MRubey]

The Kuzma XL Air without tone arm is the same price as the Atlantis or Master Innovation each with its tonearm.The Air Line LTer is another $18K.

The Clearaudio TT1 MI flagship linear tracker has no pneumatic mechanism so no pump.
It’s been refined for several years and apparently works quite well.
Instead of an air bearing the Clearaudio has magnetic decoupling of its platter.

The Atlantis is a lot more complicated with many more points of potential failure.
On the other hand it’s much cooler looking.

 

[bonzo75]

The Kuzma XL Air without tone arm is the same price as the Atlantis or Master Innovation each with its tonearm.The Air Line LTer is another $18K.

The Clearaudio TT1 MI flagship linear tracker has no pneumatic mechanism so no pump.
It’s been refined for several years and apparently works quite well.
Instead of an air bearing the Clearaudio has magnetic decoupling of its platter.

The Atlantis is a lot more complicated with many more points of potential failure.
On the other hand it’s much cooler looking.

yes but if I wanted a regular table I would just get the Brinkmann balance it works great and great service and sonics, and put your arm of choice on it. No need to spend. Vyger is quite a special arm that goes with the table.

Don’t get caught up by the overpricing of other tables. Get records they make a table sound better than better tables with poorer records.
I don’t know the clear audio tangential arm