What's Up On Your Tape Machine?
- Thread starter MylesBAstor
- Start date
Well that’s better than an unfamiliar system Not to mention we had the master tape of Heart on hand for comparison. Plus the results in my system were the same that James Farber and Jerome obtained in a totally different system. That’s plenty good enough for me..
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Just letting folks know that every system is different. Your results may vary.... I do not like 468 and ATR... but that is one of many opinions...
I wonder if the Fink album is streamable or buyable online (Qobuz)? I just saw Fink two days ago at the Troubadour in LA. Absolutely amazing show. Sounds just as good live as on my system - which is very rare.
PS, there are two songs under this album on Qobuz !!
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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ,..... so videos please / we re on WBF .
I have 2 albums ( 4 tapes of Horch House )myself
I have 2 albums ( 4 tapes of Horch House )myself
What were the machines involved in this comparison? IMO we should expect that aspects such as head geometry and machine overall mechanical parameters could influence the results.
I can assure you that was not a limitation here. Three of the best, customized tape machines around were used for recording, duping and playback.. Including recording at 30 ips on a one of a kind Ampex 351.
Friday Night in SF is a long time audiophile favorite here dating back to the mid ‘90s and listening to it thru my Magnepans/cj/VPI as well as my then TAS colleagues Michael Gindi’s MBL 101as, Jadis 500 amps, CAT preamp, Forsell table and VDH Grasshopper IV cartridge. What a thrill a minute and some of the best sound to ever come out of a MBL. Space up the wazoo and those machine gun rapid exchanges especially of DiMeola came across loud and clear.
Last year Impex reissued the sister recording Saturday Night in SF, though, sadly digitized. Well all was not lost. Horch House reissued the recording on tape and kept it in the original analog domain. And what an amazing recording and so much better than the digital version I have. You’ve got the three of them playing together and each of them playing solo. Yoo’ve got the feeling of the audience participation. You’ve got the sound of the hall. You’ve got three great musicians finding the groove. What a load of fun and damn if you won’t feel like you are at the concert!
Last year Impex reissued the sister recording Saturday Night in SF, though, sadly digitized. Well all was not lost. Horch House reissued the recording on tape and kept it in the original analog domain. And what an amazing recording and so much better than the digital version I have. You’ve got the three of them playing together and each of them playing solo. Yoo’ve got the feeling of the audience participation. You’ve got the sound of the hall. You’ve got three great musicians finding the groove. What a load of fun and damn if you won’t feel like you are at the concert!
Every instrument presents its own unique set of recording challenges and solo cello is no exception to the rule. Boomy or too thin. Moving around like playing a game of musical chairs. Getting the tone and dynamics right.
That said. One’s not going to find a much better recording of solo cello than this Frédéric Rosselet tape from Bob Attiyeh and Yarlung Record! Almost a perfect representation with an unmistakable feeling of Rosselet performing in your room. Perfectly centered, just a touch on the closer miked side, giving the instrument a wonderful sense of presence. (Yes and you do hear him breathing while playing) Played back through the Goldmund amps—or even better Soulution,—there’s a very special sense of instrumental speed, power, authority and dynamics captured by that single vintage AKG C24 mike!.
The music selection is an interesting blend of a movement from the right of passage Bach Suites for solo cello married to a more composition from Polish composer Gyprgy Ligeti!. And just when you are mellowing out to the Bach, the Ligeti wakes you up and sends shivers down your spine! This is one album/tape that I consistently use when reviewing to evaluate low end performance or just to listen to the music.
That said. One’s not going to find a much better recording of solo cello than this Frédéric Rosselet tape from Bob Attiyeh and Yarlung Record! Almost a perfect representation with an unmistakable feeling of Rosselet performing in your room. Perfectly centered, just a touch on the closer miked side, giving the instrument a wonderful sense of presence. (Yes and you do hear him breathing while playing) Played back through the Goldmund amps—or even better Soulution,—there’s a very special sense of instrumental speed, power, authority and dynamics captured by that single vintage AKG C24 mike!.
The music selection is an interesting blend of a movement from the right of passage Bach Suites for solo cello married to a more composition from Polish composer Gyprgy Ligeti!. And just when you are mellowing out to the Bach, the Ligeti wakes you up and sends shivers down your spine! This is one album/tape that I consistently use when reviewing to evaluate low end performance or just to listen to the music.
I am no addressing limitations, but IMO without the proper identification of the machines and heads used the comparison is of very limited value.
Well, for some well known reasons heads are built with different gaps and geometries and manufacturers used to specify some specific tapes for their machines. It was a common subject fifty years ago and still shows in discussions about tape gear in the appropriate forums. Anyway I praise transparency in anything that carries a recommendation. YMMV.
I understand your interest in this information but for the vast majority of tapes we don’t know how they were made so those details can’t be part of the comparison and discussion. Plus, just being able to compare the sound of different tape types is valuable to me even if it does meet the standards of a scientific test.
Fifty years ago, they couldn’t machine playback heads to smaller playback head gaps/tolerances required that they can today. (Thanks to Star Wars for that.) That lead to the myth that one needs to playback the master tapes on the same deck with the same heads that the masters were recorded on.
Asked that question of several leading recording/mastering engineers and they replied that the newer playback heads are just so much better than those of yesteryear and recover so much more info off the master tapes. I feel that makes up for the losses that may occur over time on the master tapes.
Record heads don’t need to be machine to the same smaller gaps/finer tolerances and thus don’t face the same issues in the older decks. So the question is moot.
Totally rebuilt Ampex 351 with Flux heads.
Sony APR 5003 with Flux Heads into Doshi tapestage.
Technics 1506 (mine and thus can speak more authoritatively) with special low inductance 80 mH Flux heads (can do that because Doshi is super quiet and has plenty of gain.) Playback only and the head block modded by JRF and the playback heads are in the best acreage on the head block eg. Where the record heads were). The other heads on the opposite side are replaced with dummy heads. The playback heads are wired balanced out with transparent low impedance cable (actually the wire used in their digital wire) to the Doshi tapestage. FR extends out to 23 kHz +/- 1/1.5 dB. Not too shabby. I don’t use balanced between tapestage and pre because the Soulution 326 runs in SE mode. Balanced is used here as well as on their amps to harness the lower noise of the XLR and then used in SE mode.
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I ve heard many many tape machines over the years , nothing beats a stock M15 A .
Videos .....please......
I ve spend a lot of money on commercial tapes as well . only 30 percent is worth it
Videos .....please......
I ve spend a lot of money on commercial tapes as well . only 30 percent is worth it
Well, many people insist the M15 is far better. I can't testify to that, as I only have the M15A, but they are adamant.
Personal preferences aside... your 30% number is not unreasonable. I would put it at 42%...
but that hardly changes anything. I have a short, but painful, list of companies I would never buy from again.For instance, last night a tape from a well known producer exhibited the typical lousy bulk erasure "spoke" noise at the end of music. I am now sure it was present along the whole tape, just not audible there. It is soft, but definite.
So two observations here. One - a previously recorded tape was used (should not be), and two - the proper erase procedure was not even followed.
So I am pissed.
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Well, many experts say that we should not play tapes on the same machine that was used to record it - the periodical artifacts due to mechanical non perfection will superimpose and add.
Many of us still use vintage factory heads in top conditions and do not feel the need to upgrade.
Well, I am not so optimistic as you. If the magnetic signal went down, I do not expect signal to noise ratio to be restored.
Ok, let us disagree on it. I just read you used mainly Flux Magnetics heads.
Thanks for answering. BTW, do you have experience with AM Belgium heads?
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