Whats the general feeling on Hi-End brands that have moved production overseas.

Does anyone know the real reason why Apple is moving some of its production back to the U.S.? Better QA? A deal with Foxcon?

The below is copied from a piece of research I wrote in 2012. Bottom line is Apple is probably making this move to boost corporate image, at a negligable negative impacto to margin / profitability.

"The Chinese labor-cost component of an entry-level iPad retailing for $500 is estimated at $10, or 2% of revenue, while the profit margin is estimated at $150, or 30% of revenue. If Apple were to move production to the USA, and if one assumes that assembly costs would triple (to $30), it is conceivable that Apple could convince customers to pay for a large portion of the price increase based on the appeal of a “made in the USA” product. The impact on margins of any cost that could not be passed on would be modest. Furthermore, in light of recent negative publicity about Chinese labor conditions, and considering the high unemployment rate in the U.S., such a move could substantially boost Apple’s corporate image. However, the U.S. lacks the sheer labor capacity that would be required in order to ramp up production of iPads at the speed needed to maintain the company’s edge in the hyper-competitive tablet and mobile device market. Also, U.S. regulations on working conditions, as well as cultural factors, would make it impossible for domestic manufacturing facilities to achieve the productivity levels of Chinese facilities. Thus one may assume that Apple’s manufacturing sourcing strategy is primarily motivated by scalability and supply chain risk, and only secondarily by total landed cost."
 
You got it inverted. High labor cost means factory workers earn a living wage, so I would say socialist countries = succeed.

Depends on how you view the glass...

The saudi situation is more than just oil and the USA can do without ME OIL, more so after their investment in PETROBRAS ...
 
The saudi situation is more than just oil and the USA can do without ME OIL, more so after their investment in PETROBRAS ...

Probably true. The dirt little secret is of course that the US has a huge vested strategic interest in keeping the Saudi royal family in power, so stopping to buy oil from them would not be particularly helpful. So you end up selling billions of military equipment to a medieval dictatorship where women are not allowed to drive, while sanctemoneously maintaining an economic boycot of Cuba. And so it goes.
 
Any (multinational)business is in the business to make profit and stay competitive, if staying competitive means moving production overseas so be it .
Better than no business and being pushed out of the market , its a thing one cannot avoid , i think its better to use it rather than fight it .
You might get chinese business using european workers in 50 years time :D if the european masterminds in brussel go on like this
 
Any (multinational)business is in the business to make profit and stay competitive, if staying competitive means moving production overseas so be it .
Better than no business and being pushed out of the market , its a thing one cannot avoid , i think its better to use it rather than fight it .
You might get chinese business using european workers in 50 years time :D if the european masterminds in brussel go on like this

That will never happen ......
 
I personally think that at this time, any component other than some solid state devices (and tubes) can be sourced (that is made) in US and of world class quality.

However, when the gear says made in China, then the premium price is no longer applicable and I expect the product to be atleast half the original price. Letting go all your employees on the floor (and perhaps keeping an engineer and marketer around) certainly means costs for factory space, salaries, benfits, taxes, etc are all slashed. Slash the product price or dont look to me for a sale.

I think most of us are aware that costs of labor and brick and mortar are significant cost factors, and when you dump those costs and keep your high prices you are a greedy bastard.

Good and important question. That applies to European companies who also "design in US or Europe but manufactured in China or India or Mexico, etc".

I am not bashing in general, quality of overseas stuff, but when the company chooses to move manufacturing there, better not try to keep prices the same.

In this industry, there is no excuse about staying competitive, high end is in no way in a price competitive situation like other commodities, as it is not a commodity.

Back to the original question.

Agree. I do not believe Classe reduced their prices by much if at all when they moved production to China. That is plain and simple a profit grab and any company that does that will never ever receive any of my money.
 
Back to the original question.

Agree. I do not believe Classe reduced their prices by much if at all when they moved production to China. That is plain and simple a profit grab and any company that does that will never ever receive any of my money.

While I have been very vocal about the rising prices of High End Audio wares, I don't see anything wrong with more profit. We are living in a capitalistic world and looking for profit is legitimate.


I will try not to be too long on this kind of thread which I do see as thinly disguised xenophobia. I am not condoning China practices or its blatant and consistent violation of Intellectual properties laws and agreed practices or ethics. I do however wonder why they are allowed to get away with it. Seems they are almost rewarded for doing so... The Western world tendency to play the moral card only when it suits their purposes can only be looked with suspicion.
 
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I will try not to be too long on this kind of thread which I do see as thinly disguised xenophobia. I am not condoning China practices or its blatant and consistent violation of Intellectual properties laws and agreed practices or ethics. I do however wonder why they are allowed to get away with it. Seems they are almost rewarded for doing so... The Western world tendency to play the moral card only when it suits their purposes can only be looked with suspicion.

Economic relations between the USA and China are a mutually beneficial suckers game allowing one side the screw the other and vice versa with impunity, in the interest of short term stability and policial survival of the ruling classes in both societies. Here is how it works. In China 10s of millions of people manufacture stuff and ship it to the USA in exchange for IOUs that will never be repaid (inflated away most likely). The Chinese go along with this scam as long as they can gain the knowledge to eventually make stuff smarter and better then their masters. Theft of IP (probably seen as "knowledge transfer" by the other side) is an integral element of this economic relationship.

Keep in mind that a nation becoming an economically dominant power is never a pretty picture; the white man did it with outright appropriation of resources (colonization, slavery and genocide). I think the Chinese are going about it in a very civilized fashion.
 
Intellectual theft is not only a Chinese problem. I have read about one U.S. audio manufacturer who went to China, hired the lead workers from a Chinese manufacturer, stole the designs for their products and started producing the same products in the plant they acquired and continued to use the Chinese name on the product. These famous products were originally Chinese designed, but the American company that now produces these products said that they were American designed and built in China. Many on this site have products from this American company, but I will never do business with them again. I know this company monitors audio sites, so I will not give the name of the company, so as to protect this site from any legal repercussions. The incredible thing is that the Chinese company won in an American court against the American company, but it seems to have had no effect on them being able to carry on with business as usual.
 
Economic relations between the USA and China are a mutually beneficial suckers game allowing one side the screw the other and vice versa with impunity, in the interest of short term stability and policial survival of the ruling classes in both societies. Here is how it works. In China 10s of millions of people manufacture stuff and ship it to the USA in exchange for IOUs that will never be repaid (inflated away most likely). The Chinese go along with this scam as long as they can gain the knowledge to eventually make stuff smarter and better then their masters. Theft of IP (probably seen as "knowledge transfer" by the other side) is an integral element of this economic relationship.

Keep in mind that a nation becoming an economically dominant power is never a pretty picture; the white man did it with outright appropriation of resources (colonization, slavery and genocide). I think the Chinese are going about it in a very civilized fashion.

Was this before or after Genghis Khan ....:)
 
Intellectual theft is not only a Chinese problem. I have read about one U.S. audio manufacturer who went to China, hired the lead workers from a Chinese manufacturer, stole the designs for their products and started producing the same products in the plant they acquired and continued to use the Chinese name on the product. These famous products were originally Chinese designed, but the American company that now produces these products said that they were American designed and built in China. Many on this site have products from this American company, but I will never do business with them again. I know this company monitors audio sites, so I will not give the name of the company, so as to protect this site from any legal repercussions. The incredible thing is that the Chinese company won in an American court against the American company, but it seems to have had no effect on them being able to carry on with business as usual.

I think there is probably much more to this story.
 
Intellectual theft is not only a Chinese problem.

The Japanese could make the claim that when their car manufacturers were beating the crap out of GM, Ford and Chrysler, US manufacturers stole (i.e. copied) their IP to catch up. Some call it IP theft, others call it knowledge transfer. I guess it never occured to Toyota to get kanban and JIT patented. Right now you have Apple suing Samsung over copying the shape of icons on a display - totally pathetic. I think quick and widespread dissemination of innovation is a good thing. If you don't like getting copied, stay out of China.
 
The Japanese could make the claim that when their car manufacturers were beating the crap out of GM, Ford and Chrysler, US manufacturers stole (i.e. copied) their IP to catch up. Some call it IP theft, others call it knowledge transfer. I guess it never occured to Toyota to get kanban and JIT patented. Right now you have Apple suing Samsung over copying the shape of icons on a display - totally pathetic. I think quick and widespread dissemination of innovation is a good thing. If you don't like getting copied, stay out of China.

Dr. Deming taught the Japanese about continuous improvement and he was an American whose knowledge wasn't much appreciated in the U.S. at the time. Deming was revered by the Japanese and we see where that took their manufacturing. I'm old enough to remember that as children, we mostly hated things made in Japan because they were junk. Now if you have something made in Japan, it's almost a point of pride.
 

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