What is it about most audiophile cable designs that make cables sound like Tone Controls?

[Lee]

all cables with boxes in between either filter the bandwidth or are adjustable in impedance speaker, amp. Example hms cable they started it in the early 90's.

HMS Suprema LS - Fidelity Magazine

In a bid to achieve musical perfection, HMS has completed its new benchmark-setting Suprema line with the LS speaker cable.

www.fidelity-magazine.com

View attachment 98545

Actually MIT started it before that.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Actually MIT started it before that.

maybe i don't know, but hms cables all amps are adaptable no matter if set tube, transistor amps a big advantage if you like the cable.

 

[twitch]

maybe i don't know, but hms cables all amps are adaptable no matter if set tube, transistor amps a big advantage if you like the cable.

calling them cables is a misnomer IMO, they are in effect a networking/tuning device and yes MIT has been playing that game long before.

 

[microstrip]

ALL cables act as modifiers to the sound of a system. Anyone who tells you their cable doesn’t do anything means their cable doesn’t do anything they don’t like.
Because there is no invisible cable sonically it becomes obvious then that one can use them, like other components in a system, to tailor the sound.

Easy to agree on this one.

So called “basic” cables that are now being touted as “natural” may have a better balance of sins to some people in some systems but it is definitely not universal. They also act as tone controls.

Yes, but only if you use the word "tone controls" in a non standard and vague way. A tone control was defined as something that changes the frequency response of a device in the audio band. Properly designed and used cables do not do it. Surely we all know that it is possible to cahnge the frequency response of a system with cables, but these are exceptional cases, not the rule.

What is not highlighted here is that cables are not only tone controls (as mentioned above they all are regardless of pedigree) but they are also information controls, which means resolution and affects on space perception (soundstage/imaging and dimensionality). This is where superior cables outperform basic ones. It isn’t always about price but often is

Yes, although we disagree on the tone controls we agree on the perceptual aspects, that in some case suggest a change in tonal balance that is not correlated with measurements of frequency response.

Materials and geometry matter as signals do not just pass through wire like water through a garden hose…the physics is a lot more complex and so wire geometry, coatings. Dielectric all contribute to the signal transmission. Is this just subtle manipulation of LCR parameters? Probably as that complex interaction defined overall impedance, which is frequency dependent don’t forget.

IMO the audio signals pass like water through a garden hose, but something that is not water is added or subtracted during this transmission. Surely LCR parameters affect sound cable, but what is the point of addressing them if we can't correlate their values with cable sound? BTW we had a great DIY thread by Gary Koh long ago on the influence of LCR parameters on cable sound.

IMHO cables are developed in an heuristic way, developers and manufacturers only use measurements as tools for guidance and checks of consistency . and surely for marketing!

 

[DasguteOhr]

calling them cables is a misnomer IMO, they are in effect a networking/tuning device and yes MIT has been playing that game long before.

there are now so many companies that have jumped on the train. just looks cool dramatic box cables instead of pure cable . i don't like them i love take the best electrical conductor and it's good.

 

[hoodjem]

Why stop with cables? Why not have one perfectly "neutral" amplifier, one source, and one speaker design? Then you wouldn't have to make any decisions or take any risks. Cables have never presented a problem for me (or anyone else in my circle of audiophile friends and club members), and I have never once thought that I needed to find a cable that has little or no sound of its own. For the record, I don't give a rat's ass about "neutrality" a term which means different things to different people, and is too often used to describe a sound that is sterile or clinical. That does not mean that I want cables that editorialize the signal. What's important is that they don't subtract the natural warmth of music as many so-called "neutral cables seem to do. I want natural musicality and emotional connection to the music from my audio system and I am getting it with Echole, Hemingway Audio, Verastarr, and Townshend cables. Again, if you have ears that work and you have learned to listen it is relatively easy to find cables that work well with your system.

Yep. Exactly. As if everything was the same, and perfectly neutral.

Reminds me of Henry Ford's saying about the Model T.
"Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants, . . . so long as it is black."

 

[morricab]

Easy to agree on this one.


Yes, but only if you use the word "tone controls" in a non standard and vague way. A tone control was defined as something that changes the frequency response of a device in the audio band. Properly designed and used cables do not do it. Surely we all know that it is possible to cahnge the frequency response of a system with cables, but these are exceptional cases, not the rule.


Yes, although we disagree on the tone controls we agree on the perceptual aspects, that in some case suggest a change in tonal balance that is not correlated with measurements of frequency response.



IMO the audio signals pass like water through a garden hose, but something that is not water is added or subtracted during this transmission. Surely LCR parameters affect sound cable, but what is the point of addressing them if we can't correlate their values with cable sound? BTW we had a great DIY thread by Gary Koh long ago on the influence of LCR parameters on cable sound.

IMHO cables are developed in an heuristic way, developers and manufacturers only use measurements as tools for guidance and checks of consistency . and surely for marketing!

Signal transmission is only even remotely like water through a garden hose for DC.

 

[twitch]

Ahhhhh, cable discussion, it makes me giggle ........

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

there are now so many companies that have jumped on the train. just looks cool dramatic box cables instead of pure cable . i don't like them i love take the best electrical conductor and it's good.

Electrical conductor is one thing, the dielectric is another. As the frequency goes up, the differences grow larger, my friend.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Electrical conductor is one thing, the dielectric is another. As the frequency goes up, the differences grow larger, my friend.

I use only cotton+paint fo all my signal cables no problems.
P.S tonearm shielded

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

I use only cotton+paint fo all my signal cables no problems.
P.S tonearm shielded

Something like the Duelund wires, or General Electric vintage wires?

 

[DasguteOhr]

Something like the Duelund wires, or General Electric vintage wires?

No ..pure silver foil (ls) and sut wire for rca

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

No ..pure silver foil (ls) and sut wire for rca

Are you braiding them and soldering yourself?

 

[DasguteOhr]

Yes ... diy cable here as kit loudspeakercable. Tha rca kits a really good

Selbstbau Zubehör High-End Audiokabel Bausätze | SOLIDCOREAUDIO

✂ Für alle DIYer, die gerne selbst bauen, biete ich hochwertige Bausätze zur Herstellung von High-End Audiokabeln an

www.solidcoreaudio.de

That sut wire from silvercore sut is no longer available

MC | silvercore.de

silvercore.de

 

[AMR / iFi audio]

Yes ... diy cable here as kit loudspeakercable. Tha rca kits a really good

Selbstbau Zubehör High-End Audiokabel Bausätze | SOLIDCOREAUDIO

✂ Für alle DIYer, die gerne selbst bauen, biete ich hochwertige Bausätze zur Herstellung von High-End Audiokabeln an

www.solidcoreaudio.de

That sut wire from silvercore sut is no longer available

MC | silvercore.de

silvercore.de

Looks like a nice weekend project
For SUT I would probably go with Audio Note silver wire for tonearms.

 

[divertiti]

I have 2404 air pure silver. It was distinctly more resolved and open, yet still relaxed than 5 other high end cables. Is it better than even more expensive interconnects? No idea at least not in my system.

Which 5 other high end cables? The recommendation/evaluation is a lot more meaningful with reference points

 

[Wavetouch]

Why stop with cables? Why not have one perfectly "neutral" amplifier, one source, and one speaker design? Then you wouldn't have to make any decisions or take any risks. Cables have never presented a problem for me (or anyone else in my circle of audiophile friends and club members), and I have never once thought that I needed to find a cable that has little or no sound of its own. For the record, I don't give a rat's ass about "neutrality" a term which means different things to different people, and is too often used to describe a sound that is sterile or clinical. That does not mean that I want cables that editorialize the signal. What's important is that they don't subtract the natural warmth of music as many so-called "neutral cables seem to do. I want natural musicality and emotional connection to the music from my audio system and I am getting it with Echole, Hemingway Audio, Verastarr, and Townshend cables. Again, if you have ears that work and you have learned to listen it is relatively easy to find cables that work well with your system.

I thought you are talking about my system.

 

[Wavetouch]

As for power cords, once you get a perfect power cord, it makes no difference in the sound. The cord provides the amp all it needs (from a power standpoint) to do it's best job. if a cord makes it sound different, it is imperfect. I have to admit, and I know this is heresy, that I think all high end power cords sound alike. Not what someone who just spent $4k on a power cord wants to believe, so generally it isn't believed.

But I think you can get a "zero-loss" power cord for a lot less than $4k.

Jerry

All power cables (PC) degrade the sound quality. The good PC degrades SQ little. The bad PC degrades SQ a lot. The sound of perfect PC is the original music.

I don't think all PCs sound alike. All hi-end PCs sound different. Even same model and brand PCs made in a same day sound different each other because no one knows how to make a proper audio PC.

 

[Carlsbad]

@Wavetouch I know a lot of people won't agree with me and I'm not going to try to change your mind.

 

[ssfas]

no one knows how to make a proper audio PC. All PCs in the world aren't made properly except my PCs.

What did you have for breakfast?