What features of Roon are worth the price? Compensate for Roon’s poorer sound quality?

[matthias]

IMO, a nice way to get some Impression about Roon vs. better sounding software is to read the latest pages of the Taiko Extreme thread here on WBF. The Extreme is as much optimised for highest SQ with Roon as it gets.

Matt

 

[christoph]

Auralic, Lumin, and Innuos for starters. I have used a computer, laptop, and Innuos as cores. I have also done other comparisons but they were not solely software variable so I am not including those.

Edit: I have tested these across multiple devices within those brands as well, for what it’s worth.

Aren't those closed systems consisting of hardware and software?
I can not just try one of those players with the hardware I have?
I would have to use the respective hardware to try as well.
There is not a software player of those I can use with my hardware?

 

[DSkip]

Aren't those closed systems consisting of hardware and software?
I can not just try one of those players with the hardware I have?
I would have to use the respective hardware to try as well.
There is not a software player of those I can use with my hardware?

That is part of the equation though. A native app is critical to me because it is critical to playback.

Innuos does not have their own native app yet. I have to use squeezebox and then control it with iPeng. This sounds far superior to Roon. Also with auralic and Lumin, I know I have run one of those units off the other companies software and the sound was still superior to Roon. I think I used auralic to control Lumin.

Another thing that has consistently happened with roon for me is the signal is too hot and I have to drop it 3db to prevent clipping. Any time I have used dsp, the soundstage has collapsed considerably and lost all abilities to image outside the space between the speakers. I have played enough with Roon to know it’s strengths and sound quality has never been one of them for me. Roon sounds equivalent to running tidal through windows IMO. Even then, there are instances where it is a good fit for all it offers depending on client and setup.

 

[cjf]

Hrmmm...there is nothing about Roon that would increase the output level of a given song by 1db or 3db if it wasn't already that way to begin with. Roon lets you adjust -3db out for Inter-sample Overs but it won't add 3db that isn't already there to begin with.

It isn't very difficult to create a DSP filter that collapses the soundstage. In fact, I do it quite often while playing with various filters in Audiolense. But that's on me, not the software playing it back. Many times I find that a wonky soundstage comes from a measurement sweep anomaly on the top end somewhere. It could also happen if you play around with correction filters too close to the passive crossover points of the speakers...among other things.

If I do my part when creating correction filters the soundstage is quite large in width and depth as if I'm sitting in the middle of it all. Roon is just playing what you feed it. Crap in Crap out as with most things

 

[DSkip]

Hrmmm...there is nothing about Roon that would increase the output level of a given song by 1db or 3db if it wasn't already that way to begin with. Roon lets you adjust -3db out for Inter-sample Overs but it won't add 3db that isn't already there to begin with.

It isn't very difficult to create a DSP filter that collapses the soundstage. In fact, I do it quite often while playing with various filters in Audiolense. But that's on me, not the software playing it back. Many times I find that a wonky soundstage comes from a measurement sweep anomaly on the top end somewhere. It could also happen if you play around with correction filters too close to the passive crossover points of the speakers...among other things.

If I do my part when creating correction filters the soundstage is quite large in width and depth as if I'm sitting in the middle of it all. Roon is just playing what you feed it. Crap in Crap out as with most things

Believe what you will. This is a well documented issue with Roon. There are many more issues than just those outlined and believe me when I say that soundstage is shrunk even when dsp is flat. It has not mattered what the settings were, once that feature was disengaged the soundstage stretched to the walls. Once I moved to another software, the stage went well beyond the walls.

I would consider since I’ve used laptops and computers as cores that the issue resolved with windows somehow processing that information and destroying atmosphere and air while introducing a muddiness. Unfortunately using Innuos as a core has proven to me it is not windows and there is something inherent to the Roon software that is compromising the file.

For what it’s worth, in my digital journey I’ve come to suspect that the biggest barrier between CD and streaming quality has nothing to do with the format or file itself and everything to do with the software that is handling the file.

 

[Duckworp]

I have a network bridge connected directly to my very resolving CD/DAC. I have compared music connected directly to my network bridge vs via using the bridge as a Roon endpoint. No difference.

 

[christoph]

That is part of the equation though. A native app is critical to me because it is critical to playback.

Innuos does not have their own native app yet. I have to use squeezebox and then control it with iPeng. This sounds far superior to Roon. Also with auralic and Lumin, I know I have run one of those units off the other companies software and the sound was still superior to Roon. I think I used auralic to control Lumin.

Another thing that has consistently happened with roon for me is the signal is too hot and I have to drop it 3db to prevent clipping. Any time I have used dsp, the soundstage has collapsed considerably and lost all abilities to image outside the space between the speakers. I have played enough with Roon to know it’s strengths and sound quality has never been one of them for me. Roon sounds equivalent to running tidal through windows IMO. Even then, there are instances where it is a good fit for all it offers depending on client and setup.

IME Auralic is utter crap sonically AND their app is flakey at best

 

[christoph]

believe me when I say that soundstage is shrunk even when dsp is flat. It has not mattered what the settings were, once that feature was disengaged the soundstage stretched to the walls

You have to delete all filters for roon to sound it's best. Only disabling the filters does not do the trick
It's strange but that's the way it is

 

[shakti]

Roon can do sound satisfying.
To get the best out of my Antipodes K50 and Roon:

- use the Squeezelite Player
- set "Flac compression" to NO (than Antipodes will do, not the DAC)
- if Tidal: Let the Musikserver do the MQA bit, set MQA capabilities to "decoder and renderer)

at least, my personal experience, in other set ups, it might be different.

 

[DSkip]

IME Auralic is utter crap sonically AND their app is flakey at best

I have gotten decent results with their transports in the past. I won’t comment on their dacs. Roon greatly deteriorated that sound.

You have to delete all filters for roon to sound it's best. Only disabling the filters does not do the trick
It's strange but that's the way it is

Well, yeah. I get the feeling that a few here think me ignorant of streaming. I don’t sell analog because I am ignorant of that field. Digital is all I’ve known and I have been using files - either local or streaming - since about 2010. I’ve had countless setups and experienced most of the major contenders out there.

Sometimes you don’t realize how something is until it is removed from the system. In some cases there might be a synergy or something else covering up the influence of a component but it doesn’t mean that influence isn’t there. This is also true of software.

 

[marty]

How good is the roon recommendation engine? Is it better than, say, the Tidal app?

Do you mean Roon Radio? If so, it's outstanding. I still think that Pandora has the very best algorithm for understanding the DNA of a certain piece of music and making a recommendation for what to play next, but Roon Radio isn't far behind. Of course, I only use Pandora for the outdoor spa with a portable speaker so it's not big rig worthy, but Roon Radio is very capable.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

- set "Flac compression" to NO (than Antipodes will do, not the DAC)

I have never seen this setup option with any device on my systems.

 

[shakti]

I have never seen this setup option with any device on my systems.

The tab his hidden under "advanced settings" in the "device set up" section.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The tab his hidden under "advanced settings" in the "device set up" section.

That''s where I looked (and looked again).

 

[asiufy]

It is only available to Squeezebox/squeezelite devices.

 

[DSkip]

It is only available to Squeezebox/squeezelite devices.

I assume this includes Innuos? Do you know how this interaction differs from the traditional core/endpoint model? Does it have a different sound if it is a different interaction?

I don't know if you know these things but this is new information to me and I'm extremely curious now.

 

[dwhistance]

You have to delete all filters for roon to sound it's best. Only disabling the filters does not do the trick
It's strange but that's the way it is

Where do you delete the filters? Also do they reappear when the inevitable Roon "upgrade" comes along?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

It is only available to Squeezebox/squeezelite devices.

Thanks. I guess I'll never see it.

 

[the sound of Tao]

So Roon 1.8 release is imminent... at Roon labs they’re making much hooray about the coming leap forward in the accessibility and improvement in experience for music lovers... it’s already a clear leader here anyway but John Darko (who is a beta tester) says it puts a night and day gap between it and other players in the area of connecting people with the music they love.

Also in the pre-release info there’s apparently been a big focus with 1.8 on making the classical music search really a strength... if so it will be the first player to get this right. I hope they manage all this, they do seem unusually proud of this next iteration of Roon.

If their algorithms for music search step up a notch again from already being the clear leader then that will be really something for the music lover...

 

[christoph]

So Roon 1.8 release is imminent... at Roon labs they’re making much hooray about the coming leap forward in the accessibility and improvement in experience for music lovers... it’s already a clear leader here anyway but John Darko (who is a beta tester) says it puts a night and day gap between it and other players in the area of connecting people with the music they love.

Let's just hope this very big update runs smoothly this time

Also in the pre-release info there’s apparently been a big focus with 1.8 on making the classical music search really a strength... if so it will be the first player to get this right. I hope they manage all this, they do seem unusually proud of this next iteration of Roon.

You can accuse the roon guys of a few things but lack of self-confidence is definitely not one of them

If their algorithms for music search step up a notch again from already being the clear leader then that will be really something for the music lover...

The search function was absolutely aweful: glacial search times and abysmally bad search results.
I really hope they improve the search function drastically as well as the classic handling which is also very bad

PS: I really do love roon for what is does very good now and I hope this update will vastly improve the search and classic music handling