What Audio Research power amps have you owned or admired?
- Thread starter Jay_S
- Start date
And I thought it was just me. Of course Steve, you could have had a winter and summer system
Solid-state in the summer and tubes in the winter!HI All,
Boy, I thought it was just me. In the summer, I restrict listening to early morning hours or late night. Even though my D250 closet is air conditioned, the rest of my house is not. It's clear that I treat my amplifier better than I treat myself. Which is proper, don't you think?
Sparky
Boy, I thought it was just me. In the summer, I restrict listening to early morning hours or late night. Even though my D250 closet is air conditioned, the rest of my house is not. It's clear that I treat my amplifier better than I treat myself. Which is proper, don't you think?
Sparky
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Dang you needed to take out a small loan to retube those suckers ....
Well, Steve probably didn't, but for me it'd be a big loan...
Well, Steve probably didn't, but for me it'd be a big loan...
Yes, that's not something I'm looking forward to with my ART amps
A friend just told me ARC is coming out with a Ref 250 to replace the Ref 210. And another amp to replace the Ref 610, buzz is that it's a 750 watter. Wow.
Can you imagine, considering the relatively close spacing of the tubes, the amount of heat that tube in the middle sees?
Oh yeah. More cooling fans, perhaps? Or design it like the Jadis JA800 in which the amp was built 'sideward' instead of upwards like a tower; they built another tube chassis aside from the first tube chassis, and then joined them via umbilical cord to another block of power supply. So that's 3 chassis just for one channel! I've seen them and heard them a long time ago. Awesome sights and sound.
The spacing of the tubes in the ARC 610 is larger than you can usually imagine from the pictures - these beasts are really big. Also the tubes are cooled by convection and if you look in detail there are rows of slots between them to allow vertical circulation of the air. But I think one can grill a steak over them - at less for some one who just wants a medium well or well done one!
Just like to know from ARC amp users if they notice any warm-up time is needed (with music or not). Friends here who have ARC amps tell me they need to warm up the amp for an hour with music before it would sound its best. My old VS110 amp sounded best at 30 minutes with music but my new VS115 is taking like an hour to sound really good. The first 5 minutes or so sound cold, and a bit lean and bright. Now I'm wondering how the vintage ARC amps behave.
Jadis, I think most all gear sounds better after some amount of warm-up. My JR model 8 takes about 45 minutes from cold to sound its best, my ARC D70Mk2 about the same.
I even feel that my pre-amp also sounds better after at least a thirty plus minute warm-up from cold. Interestingly, there is a growing opinion that even TT's and cartridges take some time before they are sounding their best. I have noticed that with my Linn.
I even feel that my pre-amp also sounds better after at least a thirty plus minute warm-up from cold. Interestingly, there is a growing opinion that even TT's and cartridges take some time before they are sounding their best. I have noticed that with my Linn.
Hi Davey,
That's good to hear. There are times when I'm itchy to play an album upon start up, and I had to put it back and pick another for warm-up purposes. At least now I know I'm not being paranoid or anything.
HI jadis,
I do agree that all tube amps need ample warm up. However, I also think this quality is a problem and a hastle. I'll speak only about my ARC D250 Mk II Servo and SP-11 Mk II. But I don't think these are unique as to warm up.
My system takes a good two hours to start to sound its best. Upon initial start up, the sound is kind of disassociated. The normally extremely integrated sound is instead made up of bits and pieces. It's not as smooth as normal. Its ability to project a sound space that is full and rounded is instead rather flat sounding. That is not to say that it does not sound good. It does. However, If you are used to the system at its best, it's definitely not.
After 15 minutes most of these effects are disappearing. I can enjoy it after 15 minutes. After a half an hour, the system is up to, say 95% of its potential which is to say, it is sounding really good. However, it continues to improve until after 2 hours, I can't say with certainty that its not up to full potential. But,the system continues to improve past that point, very slowly, very subtlety, for a long time, maybe 6 hours, maybe longer. From my point of view, this is rediculous!
All this means is that I spend most of my listening time with a system that is not performing up to its full potential. There is no way I can be happy with this situation. Fortunately, at its best it is good indeed.
If I had one wish, it would be for the warm up time to be considerably shortened. I'm certain that ARC is aware of this and is something they would like to improve. What I wonder is if the newer ARC products are better in this area since I consider it a real liability. Since I'm not totally sure what causes the long warm up period, I'm not sure of the solution if any. I'm also not sure if the preamp or power amp or both are responsible. I can't listen to one without the other.
If ARC is not working on the problem, they should be. From you owners of newer ARC stuff, is my experience typical or has the equipment improved in this regard?
As an aside, when J. Gordon Holt (RIP) reviewed the D250 Mk II Servo amp, the same as mine, he noted the same as what I have experienced. He was also listening to both the SP-11 Mk II and the D250. When I read the review, I thought he was just being reviewer crazy, but I have found out he was reporting accurately.
Gordon had great ears. I miss his honest and informed opinons. He was a true giant in our world.
Sparky
Thanks for sharing your experience, Sparky.
I'd like to add my older ARC experience now that I suddenly remember it. My D-115MKII did take a long time to warm up, past 1 hour at least, with music. In those days I had no CD player so my cartridge was doing the yeoman's job of warming it up and of course, shortening its lifespan. I had the SP-10MKII and I recall I had to wait that long for both to sound good - about 1 and a half hours. Moving on to a pair of VTL mono 70/120 I don't recall having this long warm up phenomenon. About 10 minutes and they were sounding good. Modern ARC amps, I guess it depends on the model, my ARC VS110 had a shorter warm up time than my new VS115, but then again, my VS115 has yet to complete half of the break in cycle, I don't really know if that has any thing to with the warm up time. Later one at full break in, I'll be able to tell.
It’s all about reaching thermal equilibrium. The more components you have and the more mass you have, the longer it will take to reach it. The D-250 is a monster amp with lots of parts (take a look at that power supply schematic for instance) so it doesn’t surprise me that it would take longer to warm up than the average component.
However, all gear that I have ever owned (tube or SS) sounds better after it has been on for several hours and has been playing music during the warm-up time. This is where a music server comes in handy. I never turn off SS gear and I hit the random button on the music server and let it crank out tunes for two hours before I go down to listen. I do hate doing that with tube gear, specially tube power amps because you are eating up tube life. And for a D-250, that’s no trivial matter. It wasn’t trivial with my Jadis Defy 7 MKII either.
However, all gear that I have ever owned (tube or SS) sounds better after it has been on for several hours and has been playing music during the warm-up time. This is where a music server comes in handy. I never turn off SS gear and I hit the random button on the music server and let it crank out tunes for two hours before I go down to listen. I do hate doing that with tube gear, specially tube power amps because you are eating up tube life. And for a D-250, that’s no trivial matter. It wasn’t trivial with my Jadis Defy 7 MKII either.
I also think gear with interstage transformers (eg. like AudioNote) take an especially long time to warm up. My cj takes around 40-45 mins but had a VAC amp a while back that didn't sound it's best for 3 hours. And it isn't like the amp sounds bad; it's just that one starts to get more of everything on the recording esp. space, harmonics and body.
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