Wanted: a car that is small, cheap and carries cargo!

[amirm]

Yeh, currently looking at Polaris EV. Need something with engine breaking as we have a pretty steep hill and many of these UTVs have belt drive CVT transmission so they freewheel coming down. Not a healthy thing as the next thing after that is the front of our house! The EV is electric but had direct drive motor so it does have engine breaking. Yamaha and Kubotas seem to have engine breaking. But they are all a lot of money for an open cab which is not great given how much rain and cool whether we get.

I might make a trip down to Oregon to see the mini trucks. I don't know how aggravating importing is but have also thought about asking my Japanese friends to buy and send one over. Something tells me the Customs process will be quite a pain.

 

[Matt193]

Yeh, currently looking at Polaris EV. Need something with engine breaking as we have a pretty steep hill and many of these UTVs have belt drive CVT transmission so they freewheel coming down. Not a healthy thing as the next thing after that is the front of our house! The EV is electric but had direct drive motor so it does have engine breaking. Yamaha and Kubotas seem to have engine breaking. But they are all a lot of money for an open cab which is not great given how much rain and cool whether we get.

All the major powersports branded UTVs have engine braking to various degrees.

The Polaris CVT uses a knurled gear on the drive clutch that grips the inner part of the belt which slows it down. It works ok but it still can freewheel fairly easily when going down a hill.

The BRP, Yamaha, and Arctic Cat UTVs use a different style of CVT which use a one way bearing in the centrifugal clutch assembly. When you decelerate, the bearing locks on the centrifugal clutch which keeps it engaged slowing you down.

Kawasaki uses a CVT similar to Polaris but they have a electric servo fork that pushes on the end of the drive clutch to keep it from disengaging the belt. It works ok but certainly is not the greatest.

My favorite style of CVT for work, durability, and engine braking is definitely the BRP, Yamaha, Arctic Cat style of transmission. They just work.

Unless your planning on hauling more than 1,000 pounds on mud with a 45 degree angle, I don't think your going to have much of a problem slowing the machine down or wearing out brake pads.

 

[amirm]

Hi Matt. I have narrowed my search down and so far, like the Mule 4010. It is quiet as I like it, not too expensive and very smooth. All the others I tested have engines under the seat and make quite a racket which for a utility vehicle, doesn't make sense. The dealer says the 4010 has engine breaking but the specs don't say it. Are you familiar with them and know whether they do anything going down hill? Our driveway can ice up occasionally so I am thinking I might still need it there. Thanks in advance.

 

[JackD201]

Hi Amir,

Have you looked at Bobcat? The 3200 (4x2) and 3400 (4x4) have optional cabs and even heating. Don't know what they cost though.

 

[Matt193]

Hi Matt. I have narrowed my search down and so far, like the Mule 4010. It is quiet as I like it, not too expensive and very smooth. All the others I tested have engines under the seat and make quite a racket which for a utility vehicle, doesn't make sense. The dealer says the 4010 has engine breaking but the specs don't say it. Are you familiar with them and know whether they do anything going down hill? Our driveway can ice up occasionally so I am thinking I might still need it there. Thanks in advance.

The Mule models have no engine braking so your going to be relying on the machines brakes to slow you down on your hill.

I've heard other people complain about noise in the passenger compartment with the UTV models that have the engine under the seat. It only gets worse the more you enclose the cab with a windshield, doors, ect.

 

[amirm]

The Mule models have no engine braking so your going to be relying on the machines brakes to slow you down on your hill.

I've heard other people complain about noise in the passenger compartment with the UTV models that have the engine under the seat. It only gets worse the more you enclose the cab with a windshield, doors, ect.

Thanks Matt. The dealer says "has drag from the transmission and the torque converter." My problem with the brakes is that one of them seem sure footed, compared to a car. Maybe I need to slam them harder?

And yes, I have heard lots of reports of cabs making these machines louder.

What is the story on reliability? There is fair bit of forum chatter relative to new gasoline gumming up faster. My unit will be sitting around for 2-4 weeks at a time and may not even finish a tank of gas all season! I will put preservative in it. Should it work well then? If not, then my only option will be the electric Ranger EV which so far, I have not found even one to test drive.

 

[amirm]

Hi Amir,

Have you looked at Bobcat? The 3200 (4x2) and 3400 (4x4) have optional cabs and even heating. Don't know what they cost though.

Hi Jack. Those units are built by Polaris and are similar to Ranger line. The cab and such is nicer but I worry about service given the fact that it is not their own design. I do like the look of them better as I am looking for a work vehicle and the regular rangers look a lot more like Transformers than a serious machine!

 

[Matt193]

Thanks Matt. The dealer says "has drag from the transmission and the torque converter." My problem with the brakes is that one of them seem sure footed, compared to a car. Maybe I need to slam them harder?

Some machines have better brakes than others with the standard being hydraulic disc brakes. I see the Mule only has hydraulic drum brakes. I know with Arctic Cat products, they come with a coating over the discs that keep them from rusting up in the crates. You have to either burnish the brakes to get them to stop well or drive them through some mud to wear it off. Until that point they don't stop all that well. With that being said, I see the top speed of the Mule is governed at 25 mph. For that type of speed and its designed use, I would think the brakes would be adequate.

As far as the engine braking goes, I have read a few reviews that mention the lack of engine braking. I even looked at the parts diagrams to see if I can see anything indicating that there was, and I saw nothing. Again, since it only goes 25 they probably felt that it doesn't need it. Most of the engine brake designs don't work very well at extremely slow speeds and the ones that do become annoying because it's hard to drive at slow speeds smoothly. I would ask the salesman to explain exactly how their engine brake works to see if he is giving you a line.

What is the story on reliability? There is fair bit of forum chatter relative to new gasoline gumming up faster. My unit will be sitting around for 2-4 weeks at a time and may not even finish a tank of gas all season! I will put preservative in it. Should it work well then? If not, then my only option will be the electric Ranger EV which so far, I have not found even one to test drive.

As far as reliability goes with the Mule, I'm not sure. I was not a big fan of the Kawasaki built engine that Arctic Cat used for a few years in their ATV. I also hear some pretty bad things about their ATVs in general, but the Mule may be a completely different story. It's been around for a long time and I would think that they would be pretty solid.

We have up to 10% ethanol here in our regular gas and premium usually has none added. To be completely honest, we don't do anything to our gas in the machines we have at work for storage. We only add a fuel additive or stabilizer because people request it. I find that the shelf life of gas in this area is around 6 months to a year.

Since the Mule is fuel injected, I wouldn't worry about gumming up the injectors. It usually takes at least 10 years before I see any kind of problems. I guess I would treat one tank of fuel a year with something like Sea Foam or Chevron with Techron fuel system cleaner. I've found that the Chevron stuff works great.

 

[amirm]

Thank you so much Matt. You explained one key thing for me. No matter which UTV I tested, I found the brakes worthless. I would slam on them and it would seem to do nothing. It gives me more confidence that in practice they may work better.

There are no arctic cat dealers here that sell UTVs so it is not an option for me.

On engine breaking, the dealer offered to deliver the unit and have us test it on our driveway. If it doesn't slow down in "low gear" he said he is going to refund my money. I suspect he is using it to get me to buy it regardless . But still good to have that in writing.

Today I tested the Yamaha Rhino and Honda. Tested is not the right word. The salesman would not let me drive either! But they were both noisy/vibrated and the Yamaha was a pain to get into and out of due to all the safety guards they have added.

 

[Matt193]

When you start to get away from the work oriented UTVs into recreational ones, they are going to be quite as work, yard, and user friendly as what your looking at. I think your heading in the right direction with a Mule.

As far as Arctic Cat goes, they really don't have anything different than Yamaha, Polaris, ect has, so your really not out anything there not seeing them. I just use Arctic Cat as a example as that's what I'm most familiar with. I hope it didn't come across as a sales pitch. I try to get people to buy what fits them the best no matter what brand it is.

My friend has a Rhino that I occasionally ride in and your right; it vibrates and is uncomfortably loud in the cabin. The first time I rode with him my ears rang for a few hours afterwards! I now always bring ear protection when I know I'm going to be riding in that thing.

I can't believe that dealers wouldn't let you test drive a model. That's ridiculous and I think I would take my business to a competing dealer.

 

[Matt193]

I talked with our regional rep today who previously was a Kawaski rep and he said he was 95% sure that the 4010 does have a engine brake. He didn't know how it worked but he did praise how reliable they were. I thought you might like to know that.

 

[amirm]

Thanks Matt. Appreciate you going the extra mile to get me that info!

On Saturday though, I finally found a dealer who had the electric Polaris Ranger in stock. I test drove it and in one minute I knew that was the unit for us! Super quiet. Super smooth. Wonderful transmission. Brakes that worked really well due in part to regenerative braking. And of course, no/easy maintenance. Insanely expensive at $12,500 given our use but thought we are going to keep it a long time. So I went ahead and bought it! Delivery is end of this week. I will write up a review once I have time on it.

 

[Matt193]

Excellent! I think it should work out well for you.

 

[Matt193]

Amir, how has the Ranger EV been working out for you?

 

[amirm]

It has been fantastic Matt. I have been meaning to write a review for it. It is wonderful to go at 8:00pm to the garden and pick up something without bothering the neighbors. It has engine braking (needs an initial acceleration) which is wonderful. I can modulate my speed by changing the torque setting from M to H and Low. In Low, it will almost stop by itself! The ride is super comfortable. The only issue really is the high cost of the thing. Otherwise, it is really good.

While I have you here, they have a 5 year extended warranty for $500. I usually don't buy extended warranties and I will not be driving this machine much. But given the low cost, I am tempted. What do you think of whether I should get it or not? It is from a third-party but offered by Polaris and service is at Polaris dealers. Deductible is $50.

 

[Matt193]

It sounds like the same thing that we offer through our OEM underwritten by Cornerstone. For $500, it's not a bad price but I'm not sure your going to need it if you never really leave your yard with it. We've had fairly good experiences with Cornerstone but it's definitely a YMMV situation if your dealer can't diagnose and repair the problem in the allotted flat rate time or you take it to another dealer that doesn't want to deal with the warranty company. I've heard a few horror stories where the dealer wouldn't let the customer have their machine back if they didn't pay the difference in the bill that the warranty company didn't cover.

The other thing you have to consider is that it most likely won't cover any rubber or "wear items" such as brakes, boots, belts, cosmetic issues, or aftermarket additions. Where it can pay for itself is if you break an axle, destroy a clutch, damage a major drivetrain component (differential or transmission), or run into a major electrical failure. My guess is that they won't cover your battery(s) but I would check.

Our OEM will typically package the extended warranty as a bonus to the customer for purchasing a non-current model or buying one before they hit the floor. The amount of extended warranty will vary from 6 months to 3.5 years. I would say that 1 out of 4 will use the warranty and 1 out of 10 will save a moderate amount of money because of it. Most failures seem to happen soon after purchase or late in the long warranty period when the units start to get a fair amount of miles on them.

I guess for $500 it's a fairly inexpensive piece of mind considering what kind of costs can add up when your dealing with a a major component failure. It's a nice selling point too!

 

[NorthStar]

---Amir, save few bucks; it seems to be similar to our audio world. :b

 

[GaryProtein]

Have you considered a 4 x 4 or 6 x 4 John Deere Gator?

 

[amirm]

I did. Those gators have no suspension. Our property has a ton of potholes, ditches and such. My current tractor which likewise has no suspension (other than the seat) beats my brains out as I mow it! JD has one with a suspension which I drove. Unfortunately it was very hard to steer and noisy like the rest. I think they were going to add power steering to it this year.

With the Polaris EV, I can go the full 25 mph speed and barely feel the bumps! It has no fuel to go stale while we are gone (this is our vacation house so it gets occasional use). Of course it always starts and goes. It has huge amount of torque and will go uphill with no effort and at high speed. It is very quiet, and has no smoke. It also has a direct drive motor with regenerative braking. This means there is belt or CVT transmission to require service. Compared to gas machines, it is a rather simple device.

The only down side I have found is that it creates some fumes as it is charging. If I leave the garage door open then there is no smell. Otherwise there is some for a few hours. The other down side will be replacing 8 batteries when the time comes.

 

[GaryProtein]

It seems like you have thoroughly investigated this.

You appear to have two good options. The electric golf cart or move!

Maybe you can find an exhaust fan that will go on when the batteries are charging and turn off when the charge is complete so you can keep your garage door closed.