VTL TP-6.5 Signature II Phono Stage Reviewed by Michael Fremer

[Ron Resnick]

VTL does not do very much advertising these days, so they do not seem to be in the trendy and popular kids groups. I own the VTL TL-7.5 Series III line stage and the Siegfried II amplifiers, so I obviously am a fan of VTL electronics.

It's great that Michael Fremer took the time to review two different versions of the VTL TP-6.5 Signature II Phono Stage:

VTL TP-6.5 Signature II Phonostage — the absolute sound

Inserting a new component into a well-considered audio system is kind of like getting an organ transplant. Cables and other accessory “tweaks” can to some degree act as anti-rejection drugs, but mostly, the system either welcomes the invader or fights it. For a reviewer, if the sonic results are...

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[Ron Resnick]

I have consistently complemented Michael for conducting comparative reviews, and I have lauded him for the greatly heightened level of effort and time and box-swapping and critical listening which comparative reviews require. Michael concludes this review with:

I listened for almost two months to the two versions of the TP-6.5 Mk II VTL sent, never switching back to my references [CH Precision P1/X1PSU and Ypsilon VPS100] to get a comparative listen, and not because I was slacking off. I was thoroughly enjoying what I heard and didn’t feel I was missing anything, not even on the bottom—even on electric amplified bass—where tubes can sometimes miss the tight grip provided by solid-state. So, why play the swap game? Most importantly, the 6.5’s timbral balance—its overall tonal personality—was pleasingly neutral and avoided imposing upon the music any kind of identifiable character.


Review complete except for this wrap-up: I still haven’t returned to either reference phono preamp. Grant Green’s Feelin’ the Spirit (Blue Note ST-84132/B0033488-01) plays at moderate level in the background, and both the “Tone Poet” and VTL’s 6.5 MK II nail this one. Transparency, transient precision and delicacy, harmonic richness (RVG got Herbie Hancock’s piano just right on this 1962 recording), and an enveloping sense of the large, open Englewood Cliffs studio space produce a “you are there” sensation (and I’ve been there!).

Of course I take Michael at his word, but I am a little bit nervous. I can't prove it but I feel like there has been a general decline in the number of comparative reviews published by The Absolute Sound. Of course reviewing two different versions of the same component, and mixing it up further with step-up transformers, is already a gigantic amount of work for one review.

But it sure would've been great to learn Michael's comparative thoughts on this VTL phono stage versus his reference CH Precision phono stage. I hope the powers that be at The absolute Sound have not pressured Michael to cease conducting and writing comparative reviews. I hope I'm worrying about nothing.

 

[Ron Resnick]

More importantly, Michael seems to really like this VTL phono stage!

Interestingly, Michael writes: "Most importantly, the 6.5’s timbral balance—its overall tonal personality—was pleasingly neutral and avoided imposing upon the music any kind of identifiable character."

I am finding my new VTL electronics to sound pretty darn neutral. I'm not sure Sherlock Holmes could find any "tube-y-ness" in what I've got going on here. (Even my new Io Eclipse seems uncharacteristically neutral.)

 

[gadawg58]

I have the previous version of the TP-6.5 and still very much enjoy it! I know if I listened to the newer version I would upgrade … that’s why up until now I haven’t auditioned the newer version. Congrats and enjoy!

George

 

[mtemur]

I have consistently complemented Michael for conducting comparative reviews, and I have lauded him for the greatly heightened level of effort and time and box-swapping and critical listening which comparative reviews require. Michael concludes this review with:

I listened for almost two months to the two versions of the TP-6.5 Mk II VTL sent, never switching back to my references [CH Precision P1/X1PSU and Ypsilon VPS100] to get a comparative listen, and not because I was slacking off. I was thoroughly enjoying what I heard and didn’t feel I was missing anything, not even on the bottom—even on electric amplified bass—where tubes can sometimes miss the tight grip provided by solid-state. So, why play the swap game?

A VTL phono came in for review and it’s auditioned for two months but no comparisons are made with his references. IMHO that’s total nonsense. Obviously he is trying to evade from any kind of comparisons. There is a saying for this kind of situation where interests cross with each other. It’s rough translation is like if I spit down it will hit the beard spit up hit the mustache.

I don’t say VTL is not a good phono I believe it’s great but that’s not the point. The point is reviewers at Stereophile and Absolute Sound hardly telling the truth. How many times did you read a bad review for American products from those reviewers?

For example they praised Audio Research 160M mono block amplifiers when it came out. A friend bought 160Ms new, together with the preamp. He used them for almost two years and I listened them many times. I can not forget how terrible they sound every time I listen. I don’t expect much from Audio Research amps but old Audio Research amps have a relatively ok sound. On the other hand 160Ms sound horrible.

 

[Ron Resnick]

A VTL phono came in for review and it’s auditioned for two months but no comparisons are made with his references. IMHO that’s total nonsense. Obviously he is trying to evade from any kind of comparisons. There is a saying for this kind of situation where interests cross with each other. It’s rough translation is like if I spit down it will hit the beard spit up hit the mustache.

Respectfully, I think this is grossly overwrought. Your "obviously" is merely obviously hyperbolic, because you don't know anything -- you are merely assuming everything.

I think your metaphor got badly lost in translation.

I take Michael at his word. I raised, in what I hope was a thoughtful, sober and carefully tailored way, a question about the absence of a comparison. I didn't assume anything; I didn't make accusations based on assumptions. I simply raised what I think is a reasonable question.

 

[Ron Resnick]

For example they praised Audio Research 160M mono block amplifiers when they came out. A friend bought them new together with the preamp. He used them for almost two years and I listened them many times. I can not forget how terrible they sound every time I listen. I don’t expect much from Audio Research amps but old Audio Research amps have a relatively ok sound. On the other hand 160Ms sound horrible.

Isn't this an example of one of the most basic kinds of audio arrogance and failure of introspection we here collectively try to untangle and to de-mystify and to help people understand?

High-end audio is a subjective hobby. The fact that you, subjectively, personally, did not care for a particular amplifier in a particular system in a particular room tells us nothing about the sound of that amplifier. It tells us, at most, one data point: that you, personally, did not care for that particular amplifier in that particular system in that particular room.

In fact we don't even really know that, because we have to rely upon you to have discerned accurately that what you didn't like about the sound of the system is attributable specifically to that amplifier.

Further, it is an analytical mistake to assume that just because you did not like that particular amplifier in that particular system, you would not like that same amplifier in a different system.

 

[shakti]

But it sure would've been great to learn Michael's comparative thoughts on this VTL phono stage versus his reference CH Precision phono stage.

I made this comparison between the VTL 6.5 MkII (no signature) J-Fet version and the one box CH Precision Phonostage.

Totally different way to listen to the music.

CHP gives you all information ,which you can find on the record.

VTL 6.5 gives you all the emotions, the musicians like to get transported through the record.

Someone likes the sweet Koetsu carts, someone likes the neutral Ortofon Century blend of music reproduction.

no right or wrong, just personal taste / preference to get the best individual view into the music performance

 

[bonzo75]

I aree with Mtemur on VTL 6.5 phono. I compared it with lower models of Zyx (Airy) and Lyra to an Italian solid state phono from Audio Analogue at the home of Audio Silente, with his Blackstone idler.

The Audio Analogue was quite better, but that was partly because of how noisy (high noise floor) and muddy the VTL was. It had all the standard negative tube attributes that go in the strawman argument against tubes by SS aficionados. Maybe Fremer wrote about it in his review but if really liked it it would come in his follow ups too.

 

[mtemur]

It tells us, at most, one data point: that you, personally, did not care for that particular amplifier in that particular system in that particular room.

I should add that the amplifier before the 160Ms and another amplifier after the 160Ms sounded great.

 

[mtemur]

Isn't this an example of one of the most basic kinds of audio arrogance and failure of introspection we here collectively try to untangle and to de-mystify and to help people understand?

No it’s not arrogance cause I like many cheap audio products from companies with no reputation but I like some famous exotic products too. I don’t only favor expensive, ultra hi-end products in my posts. Beyond it’s price or reputation I comment regarding the sound. In this case I simply expressed what I felt about 160M amplifiers. It’s not the absolute truth it’s just my opinion.

 

[Salectric]

There’s really no excuse for a tube phono stage to be noisy. It’s so easy to add a SUT in front of a QUALITY tube MM stage (my emphasis) and have full gain for a LOMC with no noise. I use a 1:10 in front of my D3a/5687 phono and there is no audible hiss or hum whatsoever.

 

[Ron Resnick]

No it’s not arrogance cause I like many cheap audio products from companies with no reputation but I like some famous exotic products too. I don’t favor only expensive, ultra hi-end products in my posts. Beyond it’s price or reputation I comment regarding the sound. In this case I simply expressed what I felt about 160M amplifiers. It’s not the absolute truth it’s just my opinion.

Thank you for explaining.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Maybe Fremer wrote about it in his review but if really liked it it would come in his follow ups too.

You and I both are devotees of Michael's reviews. I agree that when Michael really likes a particular component it generally comes up in subsequent reviews.

 

[bonzo75]

You and I both are devotees of Michael's reviews. I agree that when Michael really likes a particular component it generally comes up in subsequent reviews.

Devotees is too strong a word. I respect his reviews. And the wording that you quoted can easily be just a polite filler.

 

[Tbzc]

I haven’t had any experience with VTL phono but had years long experience with VTL Siegfried II and 7.5 III preamp. I think Siegfried II is world class high power pp amp but the preamp is not on its level. Like it was said, it was muddy and noisy, lacking life and transparency. I have tried to better it with tubes swapping - the best was cifte 12au7. Latter I sold it and had some preamps which were much better in my system, like ARC Ref 6 and Ayon Conquistador. Funny, I had TL 6.5 preamp some years before and had exactly the same experience. I have also been thinking about acquring VTL TP 6.5, but was taken back due to these experience with their line preamps.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Interestingly, Roy Gregory did not report "muddy" or "noisy" in his direct comparison shoot out of the TL-7.5 Series III with the Audio Research Ref 10 and the conrad-johnson GAT Series II.

See https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-series-iii-arc-ref-10-cj-gat-series-2.21905/

 

[Tbzc]

Well, although I respect Roy I do trust my ears more than his writing

 

[PeterA]

Well, although I respect Roy I do trust my ears more than his writing

This is exactly why absent hearing a component myself in a familiar system, I generally prefer the opinion of an experienced and knowledgeable hobbyist over a paid reviewer. I trust very few reviews anymore.

I think most people with a variety of phono stages accessible at the same time would have made comparisons for their own edification. I understand why reviewer‘s might not want to do so.

 

[tima]

Devotees is too strong a word. I respect his reviews.

Quite reasonable to hear you say that. That is different from being an acolyte, the object of whose affection cannot misstep. I respect Fremer for supporting analog vinyl. And he can write clear descriptions and expository explanations of how things work. But his values are not mine.