Voltage Stabiliser for UK folks

[Orb]

Also just to add, in both the context is harmonic distortion rather than noise or DC offset.
If I remember IEEE red book recommended this to be below 5%, and one of the UK EMC requirements back in 1996 was 3% (which these days is has been seen to be over that depending upon environment/time of day/etc).
Cheers
Orb

 

[Argonaut]

http://www.powerinspired.com/ag1500-ac-regenerator-1500w-psu-p-1742.html

 

[Speedskater]

Then you are disagreeing with everyone who has seen improvements using PS Audio (and similar products) regen/thd reduction and that of Keith Howard with his measurements pertaining to influence
Anecdotally it seems when hitting 2% is the point people notice a subtle sound quality difference.
Cheers
Orb

Not disagreeing!
Those guys just need to get better designed audio components.

 

[bonzo75]

http://www.powerinspired.com/ag1500-ac-regenerator-1500w-psu-p-1742.html

That's another regen. I already have a PP 2000. If I can stabilise the voltage, I don't need a regen, and can use a conditioner.

 

[Argonaut]

That's another regen. I already have a PP 2000. If I can stabilise the voltage, I don't need a regen, and can use a conditioner.

Did you bother to read and inwardly digest ? The unit outputs an corrected to 230 Volts stable 50 hertz waveform. My mains input fluctuates between 245V to 255V.

 

[bonzo75]

Did you bother to read and inwardly digest ? The unit outputs an corrected to 230 Volts stable 50 hertz waveform. My mains input fluctuates between 245V to 255V.

Yes but that's what my PP does as well, but they do it by regeneration

 

[Orb]

Yes but that's what my PP does as well, but they do it by regeneration

Bonzo,
what is the reasoning for moving away from the PP 2000?
Read the review I linked for the PS Audio (post 20) to see the benefit of a low thd mains regenerator, caveat though is it will not reduce noise.
Cheers
Orb

 

[bonzo75]

Bonzo,
what is the reasoning for moving away from the PP 2000?
Read the review I linked for the PS Audio (post 20) to see the benefit of a low thd mains regenerator, caveat though is it will not reduce noise.
Cheers
Orb

My understanding is the PP 2000 is the best of the regenerators. I can only say from reading (not having compared) that the general consensus seems to be that conditioners and balanced power sound better than regenerators. However conditioners don't stabilise voltage, so currently my only solution is the PP 2000 (or PS Audio or Ag Inspired). Better solutions, if I want to pay more are the Westwick or the Gigawatt. However this stabiliser I linked to in the first post, if it works, is cheap, and will let me play around with different conditioners I find in the used market.

The best solution is to have no transformer before the transformers of your power amps, and some passive conditioners or Gigawatt seem to work well.

 

[Orb]

Not disagreeing!
Those guys just need to get better designed audio components.

Well it does come across as that when you say in response to one of my posts regarding the influence of thd on audio products

If I had an audio component, that was so poorly designed that it couldn't deal with 5% THD on the AC power line, I would quietly sell it on e-bay!

Also that covers a lot of audio gear considering the influence it has on current charging and flat topping, I appreciate you think 'well designed-implemented' audio gear can cope with this perfectly but anecdotally much gear does seem to suffer some subtle effect if accepting what is reported by various forum owners/reviewers of mains regeneration along with the view of audio engineers as reported on other forums such as diyaudio - as I mentioned before Keith Howard did part of his investigation using Bryston 4B power amp, which is developed by a manufacturer selling professional audio associated gear; he shows a measurement that correlates subjective sound quality/component 'performance' with that of mains thd and voltage sinewave/current charging (yes agree it is not extensive as would need to be repeated by many but this does help to indicate some kind of correlation to an actual measurement difference).

Any suggestions/list of audio gear that you feel has no issues with mains supply related issues?
I appreciate there are some that would see little benefit.

Cheers
Orb

 

[DonH50]

I don't have a list but source components, preamps, and the input and driver stages of most power amplifiers use regulated rails. I strongly suspect the biggest impact from power-line issues is at the output stage of the power amp. That could fall into two areas: power output and noise/distortion. If the voltage sags power output is decreased, a problem if you are near clipping (probably doesn't matter most of the time). Noise, or poor PSRR, could cause problems at any level, and cause distortion if the signal modulates the power supply.

That said, if EMI/RFI on a power line finds its way into a source component or preamp ( and I do consider that poor design practice), then it could appear in the speakers in a variety of ways (all undesirable).

Of course, at some point you could argue anything will have a problem with the mains if the incoming power sags enough or is noisy enough, but I think it would have to be pretty big to blast through a halfway decent power supply regulator.

 

[microstrip]

Well it does come across as that when you say in response to one of my posts regarding the influence of thd on audio products
Also that covers a lot of audio gear considering the influence it has on current charging and flat topping, I appreciate you think 'well designed-implemented' audio gear can cope with this perfectly but anecdotally much gear does seem to suffer some subtle effect if accepting what is reported by various forum owners/reviewers of mains regeneration along with the view of audio engineers as reported on other forums such as diyaudio - as I mentioned before Keith Howard did part of his investigation using Bryston 4B power amp, which is developed by a manufacturer selling professional audio associated gear; he shows a measurement that correlates subjective sound quality/component 'performance' with that of mains thd and voltage sinewave/current charging (yes agree it is not extensive as would need to be repeated by many but this does help to indicate some kind of correlation to an actual measurement difference).

Any suggestions/list of audio gear that you feel has no issues with mains supply related issues?
I appreciate there are some that would see little benefit.

Cheers
Orb

Orb,

I would not expect harmonic distortion in mains to propagate directly through the power rails. The regulators and power supply rejection ratios of modern electronics will easily deal with them - they reject the 50 Hz perfectly!

The first Trojan will be mechanical vibration - most power transformers vibrate a lot with the mains harmonics, even potted ones.
The second will be leakage from the primary to ground planes. It can introduce noise in your system.

Analysis is not simple - every time you address one of the issues of mains interference with a device most probably you will be also changing the conditions of the others - e.g the P10 is simultaneously a regenerator and an insulation transformer . We have to remember the very often debated RF mains pollution that can spoil our systematic efforts - it is not simple to diagnose.

 

[Orb]

Sent you a PM Micro.
Just to add the P10 does not filter noise and is specific to harmonic distortion, unlike the PPP (here in Europe anyway).
Cheers
Orb

 

[Blue58]

Late to this thread, sorry, but I don't get this obsession with 230v stabilised voltage.
A for instance.
Hammond transformer are wired either 220v or 240v input. If wired 220v and fed 230v you will get more voltage out and therefore alter the parameters your circuit is running at particularly if using tube amps.
Likewise if wired for 240v and fed 230v you will get less voltage out and again would alter tube operating points if using tube amp as an example.
Yes you can wire a transformer for 230v but often that means the primary is unbalanced.
And I understand that without stabilisation the op. points would be changing too but why not stabilise at either 220v or preferably at 240v due to the fact that line voltages appear to be high these days.
Interested to understand why 230v and not 240v.
Cheers
Blue58

 

[bonzo75]

Aren't a lot of EU components 230?

 

[Blue58]

Aren't a lot of EU components 230?

I take it they all take an average point of view when manufacturing and build the equipment to perform best on regulated power. Makes sense then to use regulation at 230v.

Cheers Ked. I was looking at it from the wrong angle.

Blue58

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi Ked,

This is a very well priced beast of a balanced power transformer. Might be a nuisance housing the 90kg bulk

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/balanced_power_supply/standard_balanced_power_supplies/BPS150230/

 

[bonzo75]

Yes but isn't that 1.5 KV? Marc had one 3KV. I think you need 5kv, and for your Krell monos, 8KV.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Yes but isn't that 1.5 KV? Marc had one 3KV. I think you need 5kv, and for your Krell monos, 8KV.

No bud. That is 15kv! It is a monster!

 

[Audiophile Bill]

63 amps

 

[bonzo75]

Oh wow - yeah - I guess I couldn't get myself to believe you get 15KV at that price so switched a zero off