Visit to DDK

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,447
6
38
Utah
Ron, thank you for this fascinating report. It is well written and very descriptive. What a great opportunity you and Tinka had. I am particularly interested in, and a bit surprised by, the section which I quote above. Why do you think that David's system sounded so convincing on well-recorded jazz and classical music but not on your beloved pop recordings? Is it simply unexceptional recording quality? You have used these same recordings as references during your travels to audition the gear that you will buy to assemble your future system, most notably, your speakers. Has this experience effected your thoughts about your personal reference LPs?

This leads me to wonder about a more general observation: Can a system be optimized for all music and formats, or is it more likely that a system excels, or is tailor designed, to sound best with certain types of music or a specific source format? I have thought of David's system as being one of the few on WBF that would seem to have few, if any, sonic limitations.
Nothing to do with the system Peter 70's & 80's pop is already problematic but the so called audiophile pressings are often the pits! It's this type of audiophile pressings that I've always found unlistenable on any natural sounding system. In contrast Jeff Buckley's LP, a standard commercial pressing sounded fantastic. I have the Warnes album on CD and it doesn't sound anywhere as bad as Ron's LP did. In case of MoFi there isn't a single pressing that I ever found listenable with only the odd Sheffield one, I have most of them!

david
 

PeterA

Active Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,875
11
38
North Shore of Boston
Nothing to do with the system Peter 70's & 80's pop is already problematic but the so called audiophile pressings are often the pits! It's this type of audiophile pressings that I've always found unlistenable on any natural sounding system. In contrast Jeff Buckley's LP, a standard commercial pressing sounded fantastic. I have the Warnes album on CD and it doesn't sound anywhere as bad as Ron's LP did. In case of MoFi there isn't a single pressing that I ever found listenable with only the odd Sheffield one, I have most of them!

david
Thanks David. Why do you think they would sound good to Ron in other systems in which he has used them as his reference LP recordings, as when he auditioned the very high end speakers in Europe? Would you say that systems in which these recordings sound good are not natural sounding systems? Can system colorations obscure recording flaws to the extent that they can make such recordings actually sound good? Perhaps this is a topic for its own thread, but I am confused by the notion that a recording can sound great in some high level systems and be "unlistenable" in a natural sounding system.

By describing your system as "natural sounding", are you really just saying it is transparent to the recording, so that good recordings sound good, and poor ones sound poor?
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,447
6
38
Utah
Thanks David. Why do you think they would sound good to Ron in other systems in which he has used them as his reference LP recordings, as when he auditioned the very high end speakers in Europe? Would you say that systems in which these recordings sound good are not natural sounding systems? Can system colorations obscure recording flaws to the extent that they can make such recordings actually sound good? Perhaps this is a topic for its own thread, but I am confused by the notion that a recording can sound great in some high level systems and be "unlistenable" in a natural sounding system.
I can't speak for Ron but my experience with some of these labels is that I bought them when I owned horrible sounding systems and this was a desperation move. Even then I could only sit and point out some hifi aspect of such pressings. But I've mentioned this before in various threads here and on other sites, any decent system unencumbered by cords, wires, conditioners etc., will show how poorly these recordings were manipulated. I hear it even with my $300 Denon based system!

By describing your system as "natural sounding", are you really just saying it is transparent to the recording, so that good recordings sound good, and poor ones sound poor?
Yes. Every recording is different and you will easily hear the differences of each one and the atmosphere of the venue will be unique to the recording. In the case of MoFi's Rhiannon not only you can hear every individual track, the booth or studio space that they were separately recorded in but also the boosted frequencies and how the tracks were pieced together. Then you have the signature dull boring sound of MoFi to deal with! Ron's audiophile brand pressings were the only ones with issues! One that really puzzled me was the Famous Blue Raincoat, I listened to my original Cypress Recordings CD and it showed none of the artifacts I heard in Ron's copy.

I have to emphasize this again that isn't anything recent, for years and years, probably since the 90's I can't stand audiophile labels including most 180g & 200g vinyls, though some of the more recent ones but still not as natural as older commercial releases of the same titles.

david
 
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ALF

New Member
Mar 15, 2012
216
0
0
Southwest
Friends and Bionors!!

David and his family, what gracious and wonderful hosts!! As it has been universally mentioned here, I also had a wonderful time there listening, visiting, meeting all the girls, and "most" importantly being transported to Japan through the culinary delights...thank you so much family Karmeli, many thanks to all!!

As mentioned in my earlier blog post regarding my Bionor adventure, when stepping into David's room, it is not possible to really prepare oneself for the reframing mechanism that assaults the "audio world as you know it to exist;" IMVHO this is not only the best "jazz club" that you have ever entertained, but also qualifies for the best "any venue" you would like to ascribe to your listening experiences. David kindly walks you through his adventure, and to the open-minded, provides a real world education to the differences and dynamics of frameworks and platforms of the audio interfaces that brought David to this place. All you have to do is listen, absorb, and be patient as he so freely and willingly shares different points of orientations...there is some difficulty, especially while your psyche is screaming, "damn, my audio world is changing and it can never be better than this." It helps if you say to yourself, "Self, it is okay, it is different-in-kind, it is no longer obtainable, but I am so fortunate to get to a listen and a chance to learn how David had a little help from his friends to get here," what FUN!!

The transducer system is full range, the low end is augmented with floor set by a pair of the JBL subwoofers driven by the iconic, and no longer in production, pair of the Lamm ML2 amplifiers. This system is not rolled-off at either extreme, it is a true-to-the-source presentation...expressed vividly without any etching or tuning of power or signal cables...I believe that David has shared on WBF that his cables are in the "$10 (USD) per meter range."

This room is a well thought out presentation that has been assembled with great care and love. Just imagine yourself many years ago, through friends and trusted relationships, tracking down the Bionors sitting out exposed to the elements in a kind soul's Japanese yard...being able to sip tea and build a relationship with the kind elderly gentleman that would provide a conduit to a change-in-custody. Me, I am very happy to have been able to meet the family Karmeli and share some tea...

Warmest Regards,
Alan
 
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cjfrbw

Active Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,144
1
38
Pleasanton, CA
I have to emphasize this again that isn't anything recent, for years and years, probably since the 90's I can't stand audiophile labels including most 180g & 200g vinyls, though some of the more recent ones but still not as natural as older commercial releases of the same titles.

david
Gee, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I mostly shopped the thrifts. When guys brought over their "audiophile" records, I would pull out my old original thrift copy. The thrift copy would sound better and less processed.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,447
6
38
Utah
Thank you Alan for the friendship and kind words we really enjoyed having you over!
david