Visit to Alma Music and Audio

[microstrip]

(...) I'm also of the opinion now (jeffrey_t and I have discussed this extensively) that you really need to go all in on one format unless you have unlimited funds. For me, that's digital. For Ron and him, that's analog. There is no right or wrong answer and I think Alex stated the digital/analog preference eloquently.

Cheers!

I think this an excellent subject for a new thread. I would love to read in more detail about your motivations.

 

[DaveyF]

Hahaha! Very true!

An unecessary apostrophe on a plural noun (e.g., “I like amplifier’s”) makes me feel how I would feel if I saw an ant crawling on a vanilla cream-filled donut! Yuck!

"I saw an ant crawling on a vanilla cream----" or, "if i were to see an ant crawling on a vanilla cream---". LOL.

 

[Ron Resnick]

"i saw an ant crawling on a vanilla cream----" or, "if i were to see an ant crawling on a vanilla cream---". Lol.

+1

 

[Barry2013]

Hi Ron
I didn't want to ask earlier for obvious reasons but I would be interested to know what you thought about the YG Sonjas.

 

[morricab]

Fortunately I did not hit any nerve with Ron and he did not hit any nerve with me - he is a gentleman and we are both here just for the pleasure of debating audio. And although I feel honored you try to reproduce my ideas concerning the DCS Vivaldi and thank you for that, I will add I feel natural that some people do not like DCS. It happens with all brands. DCS sells plenty of equipment, some people will move out from time to time - many audiophiles like to change - I would not mind listening to a MSB Select II in my system sometime. Or even Audax, that is now represented in my country.

And yes, I dislike referring to digital to exemplify the sound of early or poor digital . The same way I object to referring to tube sound when referring to the mushy or mellow sound of some tube amplifiers of the 60's.

BTW, the best promotion of Vivaldi's are the many happy users - Vivaldi dealers or distributors do not go in debates in audio forums. Their international representative is a very kind and nice man. I had the pleasure of having dinner with him more than once, after presentations at our distributor , even before I decided to spend such crazy amount in digital. We debated music, travels, food and drinks. And concerning DCS he told me just one thing - we are happy when people are happy with our products.

I didn't say he hit it on purpose...

 

[DaveyF]

Hi Ron
I didn't want to ask earlier for obvious reasons but I would be interested to know what you thought about the YG Sonjas.

+1

I would be interested in that as well.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron
I didn't want to ask earlier for obvious reasons but I would be interested to know what you thought about the YG Sonjas.

I thought they sounded great!

Alex has Alexia IIs in the same room. I would have liked to do a direct A/B comparison between the Sonjas and the Alexia IIs! That would be very interesting!

The Sonjas need a lot of amplifier power, I think.

 

[DaveyF]

I thought they sounded great!

Alex has Alexia IIs in the same room. I would have liked to do a direct A/B comparison between the Sonjas and the Alexia IIs! That would be very interesting!

The Sonjas need a lot of amplifier power, I think.

The Sonjas need a lot of amp power..although I think a very sturdy tube amp may apply. I have heard both the Alexia 2 and the Sonjas at Alma. IMO, you cannot go wrong with either speaker, if funds allow ( and you have the room size). The Sonja's are a little more 'sophisticated' sounding, to my ear, but the Alexia's are great in their own way. The new silk dome tweeter in the Alexia is a major major step up over the old fashioned Focal titanium dome. Personally, I would trade in ANY Wilson speaker that was using the old Focal dome and replace them with one of the newer designs utilizing the silk dome. A no brainer, IMO.

 

[LL21]

...I'm also of the opinion now (jeffrey_t and I have discussed this extensively) that you really need to go all in on one format unless you have unlimited funds. For me, that's digital. For Ron and him, that's analog. There is no right or wrong answer and I think Alex stated the digital/analog preference eloquently.

Cheers!

I think this an excellent subject for a new thread. I would love to read in more detail about your motivations.

That was precisely my own personal decision in 1993 which i then reiterated again before my first major digital purchase in 2005 (first Zanden digital). I promised myself to concentrate time, effort and investment towards the best digital source and leave it at that. I did not want the split of resources and music collection, as well as space, time. Over the last few years, I also decided (particularly being a 2nd hand/demo buyer)...not to touch hi-res until I felt that it was a more mature medium with a relatively stable set of formats, etc. I think one could say that time is approaching, but not quite yet for me.

 

[Al M.]

???!?!?!?!?!??

See post #7 by digital engineer Dan Lavry on this page:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/digital-filters-and-pre-post-ringing.447372/

 

[asiufy]

Thanks Alex,

I was not really interested in which source sounds BEST to you because as you write, "Who cares"? There are too many factors like recording and preferences. What I was hoping you were willing to share, is how you think the two sources sound DIFFERENT from each other. There must surely be differences. And these differences may lead, along with convenience, cost, collections and other factors, to a client preferring one to the other for his own needs.

But, I understand your response, and also why you may not want to list retail prices. I just was curious about the cost of the Select II versus the cost of the vinyl front end which Ron mentioned was about $100K.

Peter,

In order to assess differences the way you want it, I'd need the exact same source material. That's why I exposed that problem via the anecdote.
Now, if we're not being purely scientific, and we're just measuring how comfortable we are when listening to each, with a myriad of different recordings, there is no difference. Both a SELECT and our analog rig will give you the same amount of comfort and satisfaction, with different recordings of various provenances. And I'm not taking into account the extra convenience the digital allows...
The best way to "understand" what the MSBs do is to listen to one. No amount of buzz and posting, here and elsewhere, got Ron to listen to the SELECT at Mike's. But fortunately he was able to listen here, being the kind soul he is, as a favor to Keith And very quickly, it seems, he "got it". I don't know the MSB dealer situation in Boston, but give Vince Galbo a call and he'll direct you to your closest dealer. But of course, if you're in the area, you're welcome to come listen here at Alma
Oh, prices. The MSB prices are up on their website. The complete Bergmann + tonearm is $35k, the cartridge is $15k and the phono $29k.

 

[asiufy]

You hit a nerve with Micro when you mentioned DCS as sounding "digital". It does to my ears as well but he will just argue that you haven't heard it when the whole system is built in support of it or some other claim. Most of the people I know who had DCS digital moved away from that sound.

I would argue that if you want to hear digital that is even LESS digital sounding than MSB you have to look at something like Aries Cerat or Lampizator...or even an inexpensive Monarchy Audio NM24 dac...which might not have quite hte resolution (it won't be nearly as far behind as you think) but it will have the holography, tone and dynamics closer to the good analog you love.

This is pretty poor form. You insult Francisco, Ron, and goes to pimp your own brand and preferences, in a thread that has absolutely 0 to do with that.
May I ask you to stay out of this thread, given your preferences have absolutely nothing to do with mine, and you are in the business as well?

Thank you,
Alex

 

[NorthStar]

Hahaha!

I have my analytical framework; I do my research; I read about other people‘s experiences and component combinations and impressions thereof; I do my own listening and comparisons; I entertain other audiophiles’ suggestions and recommendations; I add some theoretical triangulation (Kedar dislikes this element of my process); and I make my decision.

While I like asking questions and receiving a lot of input from many different people and hearing about their various experiences as additional data points as part of my research after I make a decision I really simply don’t care what anybody else thinks or what anybody else buys instead of what I bought.

The only customer I really care about in the context of my own purchasing decisions for my own system is me. I will spend a lot of time and do a lot of analysis and auditioning to figure out what I like, but I really don’t care if others are going to like the sound I achieve or not.

For example, if 10 audiophiles conducted very careful auditions of 10 different phono stages, and if the Io were one of the contenders, and if none of the 10 people bought an Io, I would be curious and puzzled, but I really wouldn’t care. It would not make me second-guess my decision to purchase an Io.

No component is perfect for all listeners. I probably can argue the negatives of the components I like better than can the detractors of those components.

Putting it another way I simply have no ego or self-esteem wrapped up in whether other people like the components I buy.

So all this, I think, explains why it is very hard, if not impossible, to “wind me up.”

Way to go Ron, well said, take no surrenders.

:b

 

[asiufy]

If anybody wants to talk about the Bergmann table, I've opened a thread for that

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/show...er-Turntable-Odin-Tonearm&p=529317#post529317


cheers,
alex

 

[KeithR]

One does not need to go all in on analog at all. A well set up analog rig with good recordings sounds great, does not have to be priced WBF style. Of course you can get better, especially in analog, the more you spend, but it is not required.

maybe I will start another thread on this per micro's suggestion...

but you are considering vintage options - which in my experience and for my situation, aren't for me

 

[KeithR]

I would argue that if you want to hear digital that is even LESS digital sounding than MSB you have to look at something like Aries Cerat or Lampizator...or even an inexpensive Monarchy Audio NM24 dac...which might not have quite hte resolution (it won't be nearly as far behind as you think) but it will have the holography, tone and dynamics closer to the good analog you love.

Interesting claim since I've heard Lampizator and it wasn't for me. MikeL had a tweaked out GG and sold if for the Aqua (which I've demo'd in my room) and ultimately a Select2.

Horses for courses, but that isn't what this thread was about - it was a visit to a wonderful dealer to hear and compare some great equipment for a purchase.

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting claim since I've heard Lampizator and it wasn't for me. MikeL had a tweaked out GG and sold if for the Aqua (which I've demo'd in my room) and ultimately a Select2.

Horses for courses, but that isn't what this thread was about - it was a visit to a wonderful dealer to hear and compare some great equipment for a purchase.

which Lampi, at a show? What valves? Compared to anything? Don't want to get into a Lampi discussion but that statement can mean anything... Heard a dac at a show, for example, is the worst way to judge a component

 

[bonzo75]

maybe I will start another thread on this per micro's suggestion...

but you are considering vintage options - which in my experience and for my situation, aren't for me

Nothing to do with vintage options, I am saying if I rank my favorite analog set ups, I am willing to walk away with the lower priced one knowing that the higher priced one delivers more, because even the lower priced, lesser sounding one, if done right is incredibly satisfying

 

[asiufy]

Nothing to do with vintage options, I am saying if I rank my favorite analog set ups, I am willing to walk away with the lower priced one knowing that the higher priced one delivers more, because even the lower priced, lesser sounding one, if done right is incredibly satisfying

And I agree with that, but you're not considering Keith's particular situation, which he has outlined. The MSB DACs are at such a performance level that merely "satisfying" doesn't justify the inconvenience (for him) of an analog setup.

In order to justify its place in his system, the analog will need to be more than "incredibly satisfying", given that he can get that with his MSB DAC already, with a lot less fuss.


cheers,
alex

 

[microstrip]

Nothing to do with vintage options, I am saying if I rank my favorite analog set ups, I am willing to walk away with the lower priced one knowing that the higher priced one delivers more, because even the lower priced, lesser sounding one, if done right is incredibly satisfying

IMHO this an universal truth for all our favorites, independently of type of equipment ...