Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

bonzo75

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Just read, that is exactly what Greisinger is saying in your attached comment
 

Audiophile Bill

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RogerD

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If anybody has this recording there is a track where a kneeler is put down...and it reverberates through the Cathedral....Is it something else?
 

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KeithR

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As I said, videos per se are not a wrong, using them for performance judgments is.
So if people can't audition locally, your solution to this problem is to use videos instead? How about fostering local dealers, so more would exist, and not less?
You don't buy a watch for its intrinsic performance, do you? Thus seeing a nice unboxing video of a watch is perfectly fine to establish whether you'll be remotely interested in it or not, and then procure it.
How does that relate to a hobby where people (supposedly) buy product because of how they SOUND? Forcing the product's sound performance through several lossy/additive steps doesn't sound coherent to me, as I said before, it defeats the purpose of this whole hobby.

most areas in this country don't support a market for a local dealer, as is.

if we want to broaden this hobby away from rich, old baby boomers (the average age in stereophile is almost 50) then new forms of information transmission and communication need to be used. you need to forget that its a lossy format and understand the potential result. I'd rather have sound bar or BT speaker guys listening to these videos and potentially wanting a system. i guarantee they aren't picking up Stereophile at Barnes & Noble and looking for dealers.
 

asiufy

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Potentially wanting a system... Fine... And then what next, if they don't have a dealer to actually go and see product? Buy online?
Is this really the future of high-end? Let's all hear videos, then buy our stuff online?
I'm not really disputing the fact that the hobby needs to reach a wider audience (period, age does not matter). But videos are not the solution, IMHO. Maybe "fluff" videos, like unboxings, close-ups describing the functionality of a piece, etc. have a place, but that's about it. I don't really see the appeal, even for millennials, of sitting for 5 minutes in front of a still video playing some music. And besides, even the folks praising video in this very forum are not exactly in the target demographic that you think videos are good for...
 
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PeterA

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I don't think this topic is as polemic as some are suggesting. These videos will not solve any problems. They will not accurately portray the sound of a system. They are not going to put dealers out of business. Some people simply have fun sharing them, and they may give some insight into a system when combined with how someone describes the sound through writing.

I think people will share these more and more. Some videos will be of higher quality than others. Some may be junk. Systems will be unfairly criticized. People will see the gear and it will be one more tool with which to describe a system. I do not think that people denigrating the videos will have much impact on their popularity.

Basically, the videos are here, and they are not going anywhere. If you don't like them, it's pretty easy to avoid looking at them. I keep referring to Tang's videos because they are pretty basic, but I really enjoy them. And I learn about some of his music in the process. I just don't think this is such a big deal. Let the people who find these videos useful, for whatever reason, enjoy them and make use of them.
 

asiufy

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Peter,

I also agree with you :) They are indeed not going away. But that doesn't change the fact that some people fail to see the benefit of them for the hobby as a whole.
I do enjoy Tang's postings a lot. Matter of fact, I just enjoyed one of his recommendations today! He posted about a Goldmark/Sarasate violin concerto LP with Itzhak Perlman, a fave of mine. I didn't knew that album or the Goldmark piece, so I quickly checked Qobuz, and there it was, in full 16/44 quality, uncompressed. Played the whole thing through our main system, glorious! No compressed audio/video required to enjoy Tang's wonderful music recommendations :)

cheers,
Alex
 

Folsom

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This isn't about videos. This is stuck-in-purgatory-Ron trying to philosophize. He doesn't have the option to participate or even listen to his stereo, let alone live in his own home.

No one is fooling themselves into thinking these videos are the tell-all. NO ONE. So why even discuss it? There is no reason. But people are having fun, and it does create more exposure. The limitations and simplicity add depth of entertainment. If we all got professional recording gear to do this we'd be bored and exhausted on it.
 

NorthStar

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I don't think this topic is as polemic as some are suggesting. These videos will not solve any problems. They will not accurately portray the sound of a system. They are not going to put dealers out of business. Some people simply have fun sharing them, and they may give some insight into a system when combined with how someone describes the sound through writing.

I think people will share these more and more. Some videos will be of higher quality than others. Some may be junk. Systems will be unfairly criticized. People will see the gear and it will be one more tool with which to describe a system. I do not think that people denigrating the videos will have much impact on their popularity.

Basically, the videos are here, and they are not going anywhere. If you don't like them, it's pretty easy to avoid looking at them. I keep referring to Tang's videos because they are pretty basic, but I really enjoy them. And I learn about some of his music in the process. I just don't think this is such a big deal. Let the people who find these videos useful, for whatever reason, enjoy them and make use of them.

Very well said Peter. We have tools today that we didn't twenty years ago.
Younger generations of high end audio can be inspired by the advanced technologies and be motivated to fly where the hi-fi systems play and the public is invited to play with them.

I know many young people who can afford to fulfill their audio dreams from YouTube music videos inspiration. They are waiting @ the doors to spend tons of cash for the best hi-end stereo music playing systems. They need to decorate their mansions with the best looking and sounding audio gear.
 

NorthStar

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No one is fooling themselves into thinking these videos are the tell-all. NO ONE. So why even discuss it? There is no reason. But people are having fun, and it does create more exposure. The limitations and simplicity add depth of entertainment. If we all got professional recording gear to do this we'd be bored and exhausted on it.

That to me sums it pretty well. It expands exposure to hi-end audio, it invites to explore deeper and further. It gives audiophiles an incentive to audio and music passion.

What I like best; we are free to gain more exposure so that we can spend more much more on things we like best...high end audio gear. Those little music videos they help a lot, because many people have zero idea how a super sound stereo system super well equipped with the best power supply, cables, room acoustic treatments, horns, tubes, well setup turntables, adjusted arms and cartridges, well positioned and toed loudspeakers, etc., etc., etc., how fabulous it can sound, zero idea short of being there live and listening. It has to start somewhere for my grand kids (in their twenties) who love the passion of music and cinema.
 

stehno

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Acoustically-coupled cell phone recordings of high-end audio systems make no sense to me personally (except in the narrow and limited scenario where an iPhone is fixed in position in a single system and the same track of music is played at the same volume and one thing (and one thing only) in that same system is changed for an A/B comparison; in this case the recording might be able to illuminate the difference).

Give it time, Ron. I would think that over time most any type of in-room recording to share is better than anybody’s written testimony or words. And yes, if one took into consideration the usual caveats of A/B comparisons, in-room recordings could often times be used for that as well. For example. I’ve thought about doing an A/B recording with and without my Jena Labs line conditioners engaged as I suspect the recordings could be quite telling regarding the benefits of employing superior line conditioners. At least for some.

But I think it also worth noting that in-room recordings’ benefits are a 2-way street. Not only can they give us a good glimpse of where somebody is coming from, but based on the feedback the video author and others can also get a pretty good idea who knows what they’re talking about from a listening perspective.

As stated elsewhere, in-room recordings are not the end-all by any means. But I’m a bit amazed at how much detail, ambient info, dynamics, and especially timbral accuracy they can capture and reproduce. RogerD in his post seemed to have these characteristics down pretty well. Even with a smart phone’s built-in speaker though I would never recommend that. But I do find that even an inexpensive set of earbuds more than sufficient to tell me where somebody’s coming from.

I just don’t see how recording the acoustic output of high-end audio systems using the ADC in an iPhone, and then playing back that low quality and low resolution digital recording through the tiny, tinny iPhone speaker, bears any high-fidelity relation to the original analog stereo sound created by a meticulously assembled stereo system with carefully positioned loudspeakers.

Why don’t we all run our expensive and perfectionistically massaged analog signals through the cheap ADC chip in our desktop computers and burn CDs and then compare the overall sounds of our different analog systems by playing the resulting CDs in our cars?

Very good question. Well, except for the sarcasm. :) My response is that it seems at least some smartphones as a recorder and/or playback system are exempt from some of the most serious distortions our full-sized playback systems cannot escape. If not exempt, those distortions seem greatly minimized at the smartphone. Hence, for certain characteristics, perhaps as laid out by RogerD, the fidelity of at least some smartphones appears to be sufficient enough to get a musical message across.

It all does take a bit of imagination and work to get used to. But it’s worlds better than reading somebody’s written words and it takes a whole lot less imagination and work. Even if one only listened to recordings via a smartphone or laptop’s built-in speakers. If you’ve not yet done so, I’d suggest again that you sit back and take a few recordings of your own system and then just plug in some earbuds and have a listen and perhaps you’ll appreciate the smartphone’s abilities and limitations.
 
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RogerD

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How can I explain how much fun it can be when you feel the music...
go to 6:33 on the video and watch it on a larger screen. I listened to this on my iphone and never saw the effect the subs had on the iphone.
Indeed my listening chair was vibrating.....volume was about at my limit which is about 10'oclock.
Anyway I might have to reconsider these simple videos for there ability to convey power, punch, gestalt
Sorry about the total length as I deleted the original yesterday or else I would have trimmed it way down.

Reference Recording Pomp and Pipes track 4


 

cjfrbw

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How can I explain how much fun it can be when you feel the music...
go to 6:33 on the video and watch it on a larger screen. I listened to this on my iphone and never saw the effect the subs had on the iphone.
Indeed my listening chair was vibrating.....volume was about at my limit which is about 10'oclock.
Anyway I might have to reconsider these simple videos for there ability to convey power, punch, gestalt
Sorry about the total length as I deleted the original yesterday or else I would have trimmed it way down.

Reference Recording Pomp and Pipes track 4



Heh, Heh, that's very cool watching the screen vibrate in sync with the music. It goes wavy gravy there for a bit.

It sounds pretty good, too, at least through my headset.
 
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tima

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It all does take a bit of imagination and work to get used to. But it’s worlds better than reading somebody’s written words and it takes a whole lot less imagination and work.

I'd rather read a person's written words. I don't mind thinking about what they wrote or using my imagination because it stimulates my own thought process.
 

bonzo75

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Except that it's not mutually exclusive. These are not competing media
 
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Folsom

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We're on a forum, we obviously don't mind reading. But I admit that when it comes to, say, 6moons style, I skip a lot... I like videos, reading, all of it.
 

the sound of Tao

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I’m happy for people to post pics, post videos, post words, do whatever helps to share your experiences. We all can grow. This is multi media, we can have sound and vision.

There is a limit to how much evidence can be made of any or all of these posts. I hope people get off the whole judgement thing and just share without constantly feeling the need to be competitive or defensive... our systems are much like us, mostly just works in progress.

We are here to support each other... perhaps as much in our delusions as in our triumphs. In the end this should be a joyous hobby.
 

bonzo75

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One thing is clear though, you can judge a person's preference based on video. For example, Tang's videos or the low cost natural sound videos. Who likes them? Who does not? Which systems did you prefer based on the Munich videos alone?

While the actual in room experience might differ, and the video might not do sufficient justice, choosing video A vs video B does state the person's preference.

For example, I would like to have the attributes that some of the these videos *imply* - knowing well that in reality what they imply might not be the case, but it does show perspective of end goal
 

Al M.

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Acoustically-coupled cell phone recordings of high-end audio systems make no sense to me personally (except in the narrow and limited scenario where an iPhone is fixed in position in a single system and the same track of music is played at the same volume and one thing (and one thing only) in that same system is changed for an A/B comparison; in this case the recording might be able to illuminate the difference).

I just don’t see how recording the acoustic output of high-end audio systems using the ADC in an iPhone, and then playing back that low quality and low resolution digital recording through the tiny, tinny iPhone speaker, bears any high-fidelity relation to the original analog stereo sound created by a meticulously assembled stereo system with carefully positioned loudspeakers.

Why don’t we all run our expensive and perfectionistically massaged analog signals through the cheap ADC chip in our desktop computers and burn CDs and then compare the overall sounds of our different analog systems by playing the resulting CDs in our cars?

After this diatribe [...]

I totally agree with your diatribe. Other than for a direct A/B comparison of one component in the same system, with nothing else changed, phone videos are utterly useless for judging sound quality.

It is beyond my comprehension how otherwise reasonable, rational people can find any usefulness in this video IDIOCY. It is one of the plain dumbest things in our hobby right now. I utterly despise it, period.
 
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Al M.

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And to anyone who still wants to defend phone videos as useful info about a system's sound: Stop insulting your own intelligence. Please.
 

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