Ultrasonic Cavitation & Cleaning Explained

[Neil.Antin]

At the end, I dry the record by suction on the Project record cleaner (10 rotations each side).

Do you 1st rinse the record with distilled or demineralized water (DIW). Depending on how many records you clean with the same DG-II bath, after every record, the bath Tergikleen concentration is increasing. If the concentration gets high enough (which is much less than the prepared solution you brush on) when you dry some of the solution is evaporated on the record and Tergikleen residue will be left behind.

I would like someone to compare ultrasonic cleaning with cleaning on a fast Clearaudio cleaning machine that does everything at once. Perhaps 45 min for 3-4 records is a waste of time?

FWIW:

Trying to compare cleaning processes is always very objective since it very much depends on the initial condition of the record. To accurately access you would need records of equal condition, be they new or used (with its wide variation), each cleaned by the different machine. You will more than likely find that for some records, they clean equally, while for others, one cleans better than the other. Which is why many people use a combination of vacuum-RCM for preclean followed by UT for final clean to achieve best achievable cleanliness while others will use just one or the other. All depends on your own goals and desires, and how much convivence you want.

Have you tried just using the new Degritter Cleaning solution (about 1-ml/tank) followed by a rinse (use a 2nd tank)? Using the 2nd tank rinsing process helps to keep the temperature under control. With the 2-tank clean-rinse process, you may be able to cut your process time down to about 12-min (with the DG drying the record); using your vacuum-RCM for pre-clean only as required.

Just some thought.

 

[Jack Pot]

Do you 1st rinse the record with distilled or demineralized water (DIW). Depending on how many records you clean with the same DG-II bath, after every record, the bath Tergikleen concentration is increasing. If the concentration gets high enough (which is much less than the prepared solution you brush on) when you dry some of the solution is evaporated on the record and Tergikleen residue will be left behind.


FWIW:

Trying to compare cleaning processes is always very objective since it very much depends on the initial condition of the record. To accurately access you would need records of equal condition, be they new or used (with its wide variation), each cleaned by the different machine. You will more than likely find that for some records, they clean equally, while for others, one cleans better than the other. Which is why many people use a combination of vacuum-RCM for preclean followed by UT for final clean to achieve best achievable cleanliness while others will use just one or the other. All depends on your own goals and desires, and how much convivence you want.

Have you tried just using the new Degritter Cleaning solution (about 1-ml/tank) followed by a rinse (use a 2nd tank)? Using the 2nd tank rinsing process helps to keep the temperature under control. With the 2-tank clean-rinse process, you may be able to cut your process time down to about 12-min (with the DG drying the record); using your vacuum-RCM for pre-clean only as required.

Just some thought.

I ordered the Degritter-II with a second tank. Excellent suggestions to be explored. Thanks.

 

[Jack Pot]

Do you 1st rinse the record with distilled or demineralized water (DIW). Depending on how many records you clean with the same DG-II bath, after every record, the bath Tergikleen concentration is increasing. If the concentration gets high enough (which is much less than the prepared solution you brush on) when you dry some of the solution is evaporated on the record and Tergikleen residue will be left behind.


FWIW:

Trying to compare cleaning processes is always very objective since it very much depends on the initial condition of the record. To accurately access you would need records of equal condition, be they new or used (with its wide variation), each cleaned by the different machine. You will more than likely find that for some records, they clean equally, while for others, one cleans better than the other. Which is why many people use a combination of vacuum-RCM for preclean followed by UT for final clean to achieve best achievable cleanliness while others will use just one or the other. All depends on your own goals and desires, and how much convivence you want.

Have you tried just using the new Degritter Cleaning solution (about 1-ml/tank) followed by a rinse (use a 2nd tank)? Using the 2nd tank rinsing process helps to keep the temperature under control. With the 2-tank clean-rinse process, you may be able to cut your process time down to about 12-min (with the DG drying the record); using your vacuum-RCM for pre-clean only as required.

Just some thought.

Hi Neil. I am taking one step at the time. I still wet my records with Tergikleen before cleaning, but now use a second tank with distilled water only for rinsing, as you suggested. I did not relize that the DG2 offers a streamlined 2-tank workflow that makes swapping out the tanks very convenient. The whole proces now takes 10 min/record, including a final drying on my Project machine: 2 min wetting, 7 min DG2, 1 min drying. And no adverse heating up of the water in the tanks as I keep the tanks in a fridge next to the DG2, also between swaps. 6 records in 1 hr. Not bad.
One day, someone will have to compare sonic results Tergikleen vs DG fluid v2...

 

[tima]

Rinse to daylight !

I wonder to what extent the Degritter lads are influenced by the threads here.

 

[XCop5089]

I have owned a VPi HW-16.5 wet/vacuum record cleaning machine for the past sixteen years and I have recently augmented my cleaning regime with a Degritter MKII ultrasonic RCM, as well as a manual bath-type machine from SpinCare (I use their 12” inner liners for returning a cleaned record to it’s outer sleeve).

After researching and trying various record-cleaning solutions with both the VPi and Degritter machines, My interest was drawn to a very concentrated liquid called TergiKleen (contains Tergisol), which I sourced from the manufacturer’s US website (much cheaper than the EBay re-sellers) and the cost was £38 for a small bottle, which apparently has a two-year shelf life, once opened, and which you probably won’t use up within that time frame! The manufacturer advises the addition of 15-20 drops to treat a gallon of distilled water!

From ordering to delivery, took just 8 days, from the USA, via UK Customs - Impressive!

Anecdotal evidence from the internet recommends judicious application of distilled water to thoroughly rinse a TergiKleen-treated record. In fact the manufacturer goes so far as to recommend the acquisition of a garden pump-action sprayer, to thoroughly wet the record over a sink, following the application of the diluted TergiKleen solution! I thought that was a bit overkill, so here is my three stage method.

First, I give the record to be cleaned, a couple of “squirts” from my trusty Zerostat 3 anti-static pistol, followed up with air from my camera puffer, to remove any surface detritus.

Next, the record is immersed in the SpinCare manual RCM (it holds 800ml of distilled water, which has been previously de-gassed in the Degritter and to which 4 drops of TergiKleen solution has been added and mixed in).

The record is manually revolved (10 turns clockwise, 10 turns anti-clockwise), removed and one side laid on a SpinCare 12” square microfibre drying cloth and given a revolution to remove excess fluid on the underside.

The record is then transferred to the VPi machine, where distilled water is added from an applicator bottle and the fluid removed with the vacuum suction arm.

More distilled water is applied to the record surface and the VPi nylon brush used to work the water into the grooves. Again, all fluid is removed from the record surface via the vacuum suction arm.
Rinse number two is undertaken with distilled water and my Discwasher brush/pad (which I’ve owned since the 70’s) and the excess fluid once more removed with the vacuum suction arm.

The final rinse on the VPi RCM is with yet more distilled water and a Garrard goats hair brush.

After vacuuming the excess fluid from the record surface, the process is repeated with side two, before transferring to the Degritter MKII RCM for the final stage of cleaning.

I use only pure distilled water in the Degritter with two baths and 4mins 30 secs of drying time at the end.

The cleaned record is left to stand/air dry for an hour or so, before being inserted into a new, clean SpinCare liner and returned to it’s album sleeve and space in the record cabinet.

It is a time-consuming process, and I will clean 10-20 records in a sitting, before I’ve had enough!

Playing a record so cleaned on my turntable results in vanishingly low levels of surface noise and should extend the life of my cartridge/stylus.

 

[tima]

Playing a record so cleaned on my turntable results in vanishingly low levels of surface noise and should extend the life of my cartridge/stylus.

Fascinating. That is quite the regimen, thanks for sharing it with us.

How do you find your process more effective than using only the Degritter?

 

[XCop5089]

Fascinating. That is quite the regimen, thanks for sharing it with us.

How do you find your process more effective than using only the Degritter?

As I pointed out, I only use this three-stage deep-clean process to clean records that I have owned for many decades (including those bought second hand) that have never been cleaned and played on many different turntables etc.

Records bought new today are only cleaned in the Degritter MKII.

The TergiKleen additive does seem to have a positive restorative effect on very old vinyl.

Vinyl records which I inherited, when my brother (who was a heavy pipe smoker) passed away in 2016, have cleaned up amazingly, using my three-stage process.

 

[Packgrog]

As I pointed out, I only use this three-stage deep-clean process to clean records that I have owned for many decades (including those bought second hand) that have never been cleaned and played on many different turntables etc.

Records bought new today are only cleaned in the Degritter MKII.

The TergiKleen additive does seem to have a positive restorative effect on very old vinyl.

Vinyl records which I inherited, when my brother (who was a heavy pipe smoker) passed away in 2016, have cleaned up amazingly, using my three-stage process.

Just an FYI, Neil has stated many times that TergiKleen is not ideal, as it's a mix of Tergitols, one of which is not water soluble. Just using Tergitol 15-S-9 is more ideal. The downside of that, of course, is that you wind up with a massive supply of Tergitol that's difficult to use up. The dispenser size of TergiKleen would mean less potential waste. It'd be nice if you are in a group of vinyl enthusiasts in your local area so that you could portion it out more effectively.

 

[Neil.Antin]

Just an FYI, Neil has stated many times that TergiKleen is not ideal, as it's a mix of Tergitols, one of which is not water soluble. Just using Tergitol 15-S-9 is more ideal. The downside of that, of course, is that you wind up with a massive supply of Tergitol that's difficult to use up. The dispenser size of TergiKleen would mean less potential waste. It'd be nice if you are in a group of vinyl enthusiasts in your local area so that you could portion it out more effectively.

If it's any consolation, the Tergitol 15-S-9 will likely last well beyond 10-years. Also, Tergitol 15-S-9 is not available in the UK. However, for those in the UK, a near equivalent is Dehypon LS54 - https://conservation-resources.co.uk/products/dehypon which those in the US cannot easily purchase. Tergikleen which is a mix of Tergitol 15-S-3 which is not water soluble and Tergitol 15-S-9 which is water soluble does not mix as quickly and does not rinse as easily as just using Dehypon LS54 or Tergitol 15-S-9. However, since @XCop5089 has already purchased the Tergikleen, he may as well as use, and how he is using it with a good rinse, should avoid the risk of residue.

Take care,
Neil