Tubes vs. Solid State Amps

[morricab]

my sonic reference is a tube amp, the original Tenor 75 watt OTL mono blocks. loved those amps, but.....back in 2001-2003 when i fell in love with them, they tended to grenade on a regular basis and take out the ceramic mid range drivers on my Kharma Exquisite 1D speakers. i loved the Tenor's since they had the linearity, low noise and bass agility of a solid state amp, but the mid range sparkle and breath of life of tubes.

so what to do?

i came upon the first generation darTZeel 108 stereo amp in 2004. it was the inverse of the Tenors; it had the the breath of life and mid range sparkle of tube amps, and all the linearity of solid state, as well as a tube like liquidity and extended smooth highs i had not previously heard from any amp. now 18 years later the darTZeel is still unique as an amp that does not sound like tubes or solid state, it sounds like music. YMMV

new or used, the 108 stereo, or big 468/458 mono blocks, they are still my reference. 4 years ago i brought in 2 sets of uber tube amps (Lamm ML3's and VAC Statement 450's) and spent 4 months comparing them to my darts. preferred my darts.

so why have to decide between tubes and solid state? you can have both.

I heard the Tenor OTLS many years ago at a dealer who had a used pair. They were quite amazing sounding! I find it hard to understand how you equate that sound quality with the darTZeel 108…it’s not really a close 2nd in sound quality. It has none of life of the Tenors, which are the best OTL I have heard(never got to hear Joule Electra though). What makes the Tenor special the dart simply…lacks.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I listen 8-12 hours a day using Qualiton X200 by Audio Hungary and never an issue.

Have had lots of SS and keep coming back to my X200.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I heard the Tenor OTLS many years ago at a dealer who had a used pair. They were quite amazing sounding! I find it hard to understand how you equate that sound quality with the darTZeel 108…it’s not really a close 2nd in sound quality. It has none of life of the Tenors, which are the best OTL I have heard(never got to hear Joule Electra though). What makes the Tenor special the dart simply…lacks.

Brad, i agree that the Tenor OTL's did sound amazing, and you certainly have a right to your opinion on darTZeel......those views are nothing new as you've brought it up before to me. and as you being a dealer representing products competing with darTZeel i get that part too.

i owned the Tenors for 3 years, after i was the first one to join the Tenors with Kharma, dozens of others tried and enjoyed that combo too. then later when i switched to darTZeel many of those same people also went with dart 108's for the same reason. not saying they followed me to darTZeel, but it was no an accident they took the same path.

i'm not alone in my views.

 

[Audire]

I listen 8-12 hours a day using Qualiton X200 by Audio Hungary and never an issue.

Have had lots of SS and keep coming back to my X200.

My dealer actually handles that line of gear. I guess I’m due for another phone call.

 

[thomask]

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9j5e6-merrill-audio-element-118-solid-state

If you live close to NJ, then you may contact him.

I was really impressed with its sound although I had been tube guy for more than 20 years.

Merrill Audio Element 118 - Positive Feedback

Impressions: Final Thoughts on the Merrill Audio Element 118

positive-feedback.com

 

[chuck]

Thanks. Though Boulders (the ones I’ve heard) are too analytical for me personally, I think the Boulder 3050s monos would … but I haven't heard them so it’s hard to say for sure. Maybe one day I will hear them. In addition, I’m also speaking about a particular price range … I’m not even spending $115,000 on a set of mono amps, much less a stereo amp.

I'm responding solely to the soundstage issue, I think the stereo Boulder 2160 is in that price range and would IMO easily match or out "soundstage" any similar priced mono amps. There was one at AXPONA with Sonus Faber speakers that I thought was very good. I had a Boulder 2060 years ago and it never sounded "analytical" with the ARC Ref40 preamp I had at the time. Of course I don't know what you heard. The 3060 is currently priced $142K.

 

[morricab]

Brad, i agree that the Tenor OTL's did sound amazing, and you certainly have a right to your opinion on darTZeel......those views are nothing new as you've brought it up before to me. and as you being a dealer representing products competing with darTZeel i get that part too.

i owned the Tenors for 3 years, after i was the first one to join the Tenors with Kharma, dozens of others tried and enjoyed that combo too. then later when i switched to darTZeel many of those same people also went with dart 108's for the same reason. not saying they followed me to darTZeel, but it was no an accident they took the same path.

i'm not alone in my views.

Don't throw out red herrings to attempt to invalidate my views, Mike. I have had these views long before I became a dealer of any brand and I am not comparing darTZeel to what I sell. I have heard darTZeel from it's inception, been to Herve's workshop and home (at least circe 2005...he had just come out with his preamp) and heard his reference system as well. The one time I heard the Tenors it was revelatory in just how good it sounded...no need to think about it...it was just present and alive. Never got anything remotely like that from darTZeel...just decent hifi.

 

[Klonk]

Best tube pre/amp i have heard in the last 5 years stella series ångstrom, when you have chance to hear do it pleasse

Products | Angstrom Audiolab

www.angstromaudio.com

Or some old audio research gear v 70 tube amp, or solid d 400mk II
both sounds amazing

P.S video show and hear the gear

I heard them twice, they seem to do the job. Have they changed the housing design of their amps recently?

 

[DasguteOhr]

I heard them twice, they seem to do the job. Have they changed the housing design of their amps recently?

Yes they change housing and corporatio nname, older series look like this.

 

[thomask]

Yes they change housing and corporatio nname, older series look like this. View attachment 96939

Engström Monica Mk3 line preamplifier

Have you ever walked through fresh snow in the woods with all your senses heightened? When I did, shortly before the New Year, it was as if I was seeing nature for the first time, through a fresh lens. Never had white-coated surfaces appeared so white. Nor had shapes seemed so magical. It felt...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Klonk]

Engström Monica Mk3 line preamplifier

Have you ever walked through fresh snow in the woods with all your senses heightened? When I did, shortly before the New Year, it was as if I was seeing nature for the first time, through a fresh lens. Never had white-coated surfaces appeared so white. Nor had shapes seemed so magical. It felt...

www.stereophile.com

You are aware, this is a different brand? Engström is from Sweden and Angstrom from Italia. Perhaps you already knEw this.

 

[DasguteOhr]

No thomas, that other company ångström ist in italy.
Ängström ist unit of length 1 Å is 0,1nm nanometer
is used for measurements of atoms

 

[BP4007]

Since no one else seems to support Air Tight, I will. Yes buy those big AT 3211's!. I have the smaller ATM 211 mono blocs, and the Air Tight 300b Anniversary amp, both running through the Air Tight ATE 2001 reference pre amp. Just love their stuff. Underappreciated and underrepresented on most audiophile forums. Built like a tank and sign like a bird.

 

[chuck]

Someone is tempting me to get away from solid state amps and get into tube amps - specifically Air Tight ATM-3211s.

I have had that happen a few times. I even did multi-day auditions of tube mono blocks twice -- Audio Research 160M and T+A M 40 HV. The T+A even has various settings, high power or lower with different sound. With music curated to what tubes do well, they sounded very good, especially the T+A. The T+A sounded better on more music owing to its greater versatility. But the Boulder 3060 crushed them both once outside their lane -- hi res recordings of orchestral music for example. I considered getting some tube mono blocks as an occasional alternative but realized I would never hook them up. Even on music tailored for tube amps, small ensembles with narrow soundstage, jazz vocals etc., I liked the 3060 better overall. I suggest you audition for at least a week with optimum tubes, if that is possible.

 

[mtemur]

I heard the Tenor OTLS many years ago at a dealer who had a used pair. They were quite amazing sounding! I find it hard to understand how you equate that sound quality with the darTZeel 108…it’s not really a close 2nd in sound quality. It has none of life of the Tenors, which are the best OTL I have heard(never got to hear Joule Electra though). What makes the Tenor special the dart simply…lacks.

+1

 

[mtemur]

I heard ATM-3211 monos a couple of times with different speakers. They’re very very good. It’s big advantage is availability of NOS 211 tubes in pairs.

 

[twitch]

I desire to thank everyone for their replies.

I received some wise advice on this decision. I’ve decided that for my situation of listening like 12 hours a day or so that it would be wiser to stick with solid state amps.

Thanks again.

holly molly, 12 hours a day ????Don't you have a life ??

 

[calloway]

Tubes vs Solid State amps..having had Goldmunds' best SS amp at the time and now my Chalice Audio SET monoblocks . I can say without any hesitation that a great SET amp/amps sound much more natural. I wouldn't trade my amps for any other amps.They get everything right.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

holly molly, 12 hours a day ????Don't you have a life ??

Some of us listen to music while keeping the wheels of industry turning. Best part of spending the last 25 years working remote.

 

[twitch]

Some of us listen to music while keeping the wheels of industry turning. Best part of spending the last 25 years working remote.

my point was, there's a big difference between 'listening' to music and having it on as background music. I seriously doubt anyone can listen to music for 12 hrs a day !