Tripoint troy signature grounding device

[Tango]

Indeed with I'd taken more care in my younger days--with reference to Messes Krell,Levinson,Jadis,Pass,Cello,Rowland,Wilson,Rockport,Gryphon,Klipschorn,TannoyGRF, etc !

according to my Osteopath ---I now have a bent spine so I'm paying his kids thru private schools

Blah

BruceD

I had many episodes with bad back. Couldnt walk or move four times. First three were on wheel chair for a week each. Last time of not being able to walk, my wife's friend who is an acupuncturist (pardon my spelling) used her needles to get me up on my feet in two days without painkilling pills. Ever since then, I have her come form time to time to do a therepy adjusting my body "balance." After therepy, your sleep can be so deep I when you were a teenager.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Tango]

So sorry guys. Waaaay off topic.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

So sorry guys. Waaaay off topic.

sorry to hear about your experiences, but I get why you brought it up.

and no worries. if it causes a bit of reflection prior to ill advised action by one of us, then it's well worth it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

back to the Elite experience.......

now, after 6 full days with the Elite in the system, and with 2 and 1/2 days with the Elite and Troy Sig in their final spots (after swapping them), things are jelling and hooking up.

in addition to the individual aspects (greater energy, slam and textures ) that I previously referred to, there is another level of elimination of any sense of speakers and the reproduction chain, greater focus, and a higher level coherence and flow. also more front to back and top to bottom shading and solidity. it's adding a greater degree of tube like breath of life and liquidity to the equation.

it's seems a sacrilege to try and break it down into separate pieces as this is doing the opposite.....adding so much sense of overall nuance.

just a more complete picture......and degrees greater emotional connection and magical intimacy to the musical flow.

Bravo Elite! Bravo Miguel!

it does not matter whether it's redbook, high rez, or vinyl......this is pushing system performance to new heights.

 

[Tango]

Hello Mike,

Have you tried hooking it up to your Studer. If you have, where was the point of connection? And how was it?

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hello Mike,

Have you tried hooking it up to your Studer. If you have, where was the point of connection? And how was it?

Kind regards,
Tang

no. the Studer's are across the room and so it would be a take-away from the rest of the system to do that.....and then i'd have to wait to for things to jell again. of course; the Studers get the boost from additional whole system performance from the preamp and amps and bass amps Tripoint hook ups (which is the whole idea).

there is not a grounding post per se on the Studers (there is a ground post on the King Cello) but lots of likely spots for chassis grounds (the A-820 has a massive one piece casting which all the mechanicals are attached to which has multiple places to access). at some point they will get some grounding love. I may end up re-tasking the Entreq Silver Tellus over to the Studers and King Cello once I finish doing my investigations as to whether it's helping where it is. or even another Poseidon and 3 Atlantic Tellus boosters might be a consideration considering their price/performance. with my AS tt asset direction and likely arm/cart/phono expenditures looming, future system tweaking will be low on the priority list.....for a while.

but maybe one day soon you will read that I've bought a second Elite and moved the Troy Sig to the Studers, as that is what I would do if I could right now. but other things are higher on my list.

 

[Jazzhead]

Hi Mike , I can attest to the tube like breath . Once you cross a certain threshold of grounding power , it occurs and intensifies with further addition Hiw are you employing your Thor SE ground cables amongst the two Tripoints , did you acquire any more along with the Elite ?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

right now i'm enjoying these two very analog sounding dsd64 downloads from Channel Classics; the Katona Twins, Manuel de Falla & Bach--Suites and Preludes.

the de Falla being the more intense, the Bach more laid back. both are excellent.

the addition of the Elite has definitely kicked honest acoustic recordings like this to another experiential level. super intimate sound and musical connection.

Wow!!! highly recommended!

https://www.channelclassics.com/catalogue/34713-Bach-Suites-and-Preludes/

https://www.channelclassics.com/catalogue/28809-Manuel-de-Falla/

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike , I can attest to the tube like breath. Once you cross a certain threshold of grounding power, it occurs and intensifies with further addition .

this is really an amazing aspect of the Tripoint equation i'm now enjoying. just this sense of ease and liquid flowing sound.

How are you employing your Thor SE ground cables amongst the two Tripoints , did you acquire any more along with the Elite ?

no more Thor's for now.

my 2 Thor's are with the Elite (1) on the dart preamp which includes my 2 phonos, and (2) on the MSB Select II power supplies. so that covers vinyl and digital......to some degree.

my next Thor purchase will be 2 of them between the Troy Sig and each dart 458 mono block.....as funding allows.

I could use 5 or 6 more Thor's (a cost of multiple formats and a large space), but I would also enjoy being better looking and richer (we can all dream).

 

[Tango]

Believe it or not, my vinyl can sound better than tape in areas of vocal, tonal density, shading, and sense of existance. This is because of grounding.

Tang

 

[microstrip]

Believe it or not, my vinyl can sound better than tape in areas of vocal, tonal density, shading, and sense of existance. This is because of grounding.

Tang

This is a very strong and deep statement that can affect our relation with this hobby. Why can't tape be "grounded"?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Believe it or not, my vinyl can sound better than tape in areas of vocal, tonal density, shading, and sense of existance. This is because of grounding.

Tang

Dear Tang,

+1......but maybe not 'only' grounding.

I have written before about one of what my wife calls my 'drug dealers' who is a 'tape seller'. he specializes in grey market classical tapes and sells them around to tape lovers. he acquires large collections, and he has visited me quite a few times to learn about the quality of his acquisitions, especially pop and rock which he does not know, but also classical. he wants to know how they might compare directly to my vinyl so he knows how 'dear' they might, in fact, be. so we might compare a dozen or even 20 tapes in a session to my vinyl versions. these are 15ips, 1/4" tapes mostly, a few 1/2".

and in these sessions, about 2/3rds of the time my vinyl is better (than the tapes he brings) for various reasons; commonly there is simply more texture and life in the vinyl. in my system there is no place to hide.

and when I purchase tapes, this is exactly what I do first. is it better than my vinyl? and there is no doubt that grounding matters, but also the Herzan and my continual attention to pushing the vinyl to higher levels. the tape has been static (at a very high level with a 'perfect' A-820 and King Cello) since 2008 (which does provide a useful reference point). the only tweak I've added to the RTR decks is the new Furutech NCF plugs and outlets to the power grid for both A-820's and the King Cello which was quite profound......2 years ago.

it's always a question.

i'd say 10% of my own (out of my 150 + titles) tapes are not as good as my vinyl version, and another 10% are only equivalent. but 80% are better, and sometimes much better. we will see how that changes with the arrival of the American Sounds tt.

This is a very strong and deep statement that can affect our relation with this hobby. Why can't tape be "grounded"?

tape certainly can be grounded. there is no reason it would not have a like effect to other sources. i have not done it, but at some point I will.

it's not commonly grounded likely due to the size of RTR decks, their location in systems, the frequency of listening to tape with much less media to choose from lowers it's tweak priority in the budget. and it's so amazing 'nude' we just don't feel compelled to mess with it.

and my focus is always more toward whole system performance than sources. so focusing on the room, speakers, amps and preamp to my view takes the whole to the highest level. it's much harder and not as cool as playing with sources, but it delivers the music. so the grounding of these parts (like the tide) raises all ships.

I know replacing the wheeled rack below my Studer A-820's with a solid, spiked, base would boost performance, but I have not got around to doing that either. I will do that too at some point.

 

[microstrip]

(...) i'd say 10% of my own (out of my 150 titles) tapes are not as good as my vinyl version, and another 10% are only equivalent. but 80% are better, and sometimes much better. we will see how that changes with the arrival of the American Sounds tt. (...)

You summarized it really well. Stating that 80% of a significant collection are "better, and sometimes much better," does not leave any doubt, independently of grounding.

However it looks that you admit that the arrival of new turntable could change the situation. This is philosophically very troubling, coming from an experienced audiophile!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You summarized it really well. Stating that 80% of a significant collection are "better, and sometimes much better," does not leave any doubt, independently of grounding.

However it looks that you admit that the arrival of new turntable could change the situation. This is philosophically very troubling, coming from an experienced audiophile!

we cannot be afraid of the truth, as it's coming for us whether we like it or not. I believe we have to be open to all possibilities........

when I consider 8000 pressings, compared to 150 tapes, it's easy to know my hopes.

my 'feel' is it might shift the balance 10%, meaning that instead of a 10/10/80 breakdown, it might be 20/20/60 breakdown. which would be profound, and mean lots of records will be much much better. and I will just need to be more selective about which tapes to add, and more aggressive about adding vinyl.

but then tweaking the RTR decks could swing that back around.

so here we go......

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, my thoughts on tape really do run the gamut of positive to negative, all in the same moment.
It's hard to justify this hobby when LZ1 15ips costs $400 and Allmans Fillmore East costs $1000.
And I've had reliable feedback that across the whole spectrum of rock and jazz, maybe only 1/3 of tapes are truly transcendental, 1/2 up there w the best of lp, 1/4 maybe even poorer than lp.
Unlike you, living in the UK there is no way I can do any constructive comparisons of tape to lp on a particular title, and so this leaves me just on the wrong side of decision to commit.
The source I've been in contact with has 75 rock and jazz titles, and 75 classical I'd dearly love, at a cost of £50-60k, I don't think I'm brave enough to take the leap.
That sum gets one a mighty nice tt/arm to make the most of my 2k existing lp collection, as I say esp w no guarantee the tapes Id buy would obviously all outperform lp equivalents.

 

[Tango]

.....but maybe not 'only' grounding.

Absolutely right. What I wrote was overstated but, really, I think people here already know so well that it's the whole chain. I was kind of thinking that I would probably get slam from saying that :b.

Anyway, What I said was not in absolute term. I use the word "can" and also only pointed out specific aspects of sound. And Mike you just said everything that need to be said about not generalizing that as long as it is tape then it is better than any other format in all aspects. Not all tapes are grade A, but quality deviation of tapes in my opinion is less comparing to vinyl. Quality of vinyl just varies greatly. I also never grounded Tape, admitedly because I thought it already sounds great..and I thought it's kind of cool to cheat a little and every once in a while hear something bettering it in some aspect.

I am working on improving my Tape though. My tape will sound better soon.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Mike Lavigne]

......It's hard to justify this hobby when LZ1 15ips costs $400 and Allmans Fillmore East costs $1000.......

no. it was $1200. and well worth it to me.

 

[Steve Williams]

I wonder why no one has written about grounding their tape deck as well as putting their R2R on a Herzan or other active device or have I missed it?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I wonder why no one has written about grounding their tape deck as well as putting their R2R on a Herzan or other active device or have I missed it?

read my post above for answers.....as to why.

tape certainly can be grounded. there is no reason it would not have a like effect to other sources. i have not done it, but at some point I will.

it's not commonly grounded likely due to the size of RTR decks, their location in systems, the frequency of listening to tape with much less media to choose from lowers it's tweak priority in the budget. and it's so amazing 'nude' we just don't feel compelled to mess with it.

and my focus is always more toward whole system performance than sources. so focusing on the room, speakers, amps and preamp to my view takes the whole to the highest level. it's much harder and not as cool as playing with sources, but it delivers the music. so the grounding of these parts (like the tide) raises all ships.

I know replacing the wheeled rack below my Studer A-820's with a solid, spiked, base would boost performance, but I have not got around to doing that either. I will do that too at some point.

active isolation could be an even further step forward....who knows?

you should try it.

with tape we always come back to amount of media compared to tweak budget. you throw more dollars where you spend more time. pretty simple equation.

 

[Fred Thal]

I know replacing the wheeled rack below my Studer A-820's with a solid, spiked, base would boost performance, but I have not got around to doing that either. I will do that too at some point.

Mike,

The A820 2-channel stand is a very well-known weakness in the product's design.

So, I certainly wouldn't recommend that you spend any money on an isolation platform product to put underneath one.

To build our Model Ones (which of course use the 820 transport) we simply discard the flimsy, old Studer stands and carefully mount the re-manufactured transport into what we think is a proper piece of furniture. (Our 29 mm thick, solid aluminum sided Precision Machine Bin.)

We also once addressed the A820 stand issues in a lower cost version of an improved A820 based 2-channel reproducer that we called the Stage One. That product was discontinued a few years ago.