Transparent Cable - is the wire the same?

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
2,613
7
38
Eastern WA
#21
Meh, the cost differences are negligible. They might change some but overall, meh. Props to them though for doing more specific tuning, BUT it'd be neater if they were modular :cool:
 
May 30, 2010
14,139
83
48
Portugal
#22
(...) It's not a tube vs. solid state thing as there are a number of solid state amps with surprisingly high output impedances (and vice versa with tubes).
I know about SS amps from Ayre, DartZeel, a Lamm and D'Agostino's - but all around 0.3 ohm. Do you know of any SS amplifier having 0.5 ohm? I am looking for such amplifiers.
 

metaphacts

Industry Expert
Feb 1, 2011
185
4
18
Lower Provo River
#23
I know about SS amps from Ayre, DartZeel, a Lamm and D'Agostino's - but all around 0.3 ohm. Do you know of any SS amplifier having 0.5 ohm? I am looking for such amplifiers.
I can't answer your amp question off of the top of my head.

However, having seen Transparent's Lab in action first hand, I would suggest a couple of things about their cables:

- What manufacturers claim their output impedance to be and what it actually is can be very different.

- Transparent works to keep their database complete. Often times when a new amp comes out from a known manufacturer, Transparent borrows it for documentation.

- A stated impedance for example "about 0.3ohms" will get you in the ballpark for the lower line cables. There is much more measured precision than that on custom calibrations.

While cables are often used by audiophiles as tone controls, that has nothing to do with Transparent's goals.
 
May 30, 2010
14,139
83
48
Portugal
#24
I can't answer your amp question off of the top of my head.

However, having seen Transparent's Lab in action first hand, I would suggest a couple of things about their cables:

- What manufacturers claim their output impedance to be and what it actually is can be very different.
Yes, I have measured a few and normally use the Stereophile or Soundstage measurements - IMHO one the every few useful amplifier measurements, as well as idle power, that tells me wow much I will suffer during hot summer days. :) For curious people the other nice measurement IMHO is input impedance.

BTW, there are different techniques for measuring output impedance that will result in different values.

- Transparent works to keep their database complete. Often times when a new amp comes out from a known manufacturer, Transparent borrows it for documentation.
Yes, I usually email them to ask or confirm. They are very helpful and friendly concerning in this aspect.

- A stated impedance for example "about 0.3ohms" will get you in the ballpark for the lower line cables. There is much more measured precision than that on custom calibrations.
Most SS amplifiers have high damping factor - output impedance less than or around 0.1 ohm. A few have around 0.3 ohm. My cables are still tuned for the ARC REF 750 - a tube amplifier with exceptional low impedance for tubes at 0.5 ohm.

While cables are often used by audiophiles as tone controls, that has nothing to do with Transparent's goals.
No, IMHO they are "energy" controls, but properly used do not affect tone. On the contrary, comparisons show that some other cables are real "tone controls".
 

metaphacts

Industry Expert
Feb 1, 2011
185
4
18
Lower Provo River
#25
Yes, I have measured a few and normally use the Stereophile or Soundstage measurements - IMHO one the every few useful amplifier measurements, as well as idle power, that tells me wow much I will suffer during hot summer days. :) For curious people the other nice measurement IMHO is input impedance.

BTW, there are different techniques for measuring output impedance that will result in different values.



Yes, I usually email them to ask or confirm. They are very helpful and friendly concerning in this aspect.



Most SS amplifiers have high damping factor - output impedance less than or around 0.1 ohm. A few have around 0.3 ohm. My cables are still tuned for the ARC REF 750 - a tube amplifier with exceptional low impedance for tubes at 0.5 ohm.



No, IMHO they are "energy" controls, but properly used do not affect tone. On the contrary, comparisons show that some other cables are real "tone controls".

Yes there are definitely different measuring techniques.

Transparent is a very helpful company. That's who they are imo.

Getting the tuning in the ballpark is certainly ok. Nailing it makes it the way it is supposed to be.

Yes there are some outliers in the impedance measurements as you have seen.

I was actually referring to how audiophiles often try to use their cables.

I like your description of Transparent cables - much more in line with what they do.

(I guess I should put in the disclaimer that before I joined Wilson Audio, I was the Managing Director at Transparent for a year and a half.)
 
Jan 13, 2016
64
0
6
Australia
#26
There is a significate price jump for the same wire but a different tune on it. I was expecting more for ~2x the price.


Reference Level Pricing

1M Balanced Interconnect - $5,600

10ft. Speaker Cable - $8,070


XL Level Pricing

1M Balanced Interconnect - $11,000

10ft. Speaker Cable - $17,400


No doubt the more precise tune makes it sound better, but still. It's almost like they have a master tune (I.e Magnum Opus) , then created de-tuned / less accurate versions of it as you move down the stack.
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
1,539
1
38
Austin
#27
There is a significate price jump for the same wire but a different tune on it. I was expecting more for ~2x the price.


Reference Level Pricing

1M Balanced Interconnect - $5,600

10ft. Speaker Cable - $8,070


XL Level Pricing

1M Balanced Interconnect - $11,000

10ft. Speaker Cable - $17,400


No doubt the more precise tune makes it sound better, but still. It's almost like they have a master tune (I.e Magnum Opus) , then created de-tuned / less accurate versions of it as you move down the stack.
When I replied above I thought (my mistake) you were asking about Ref mm2 vs ref xl mm2. For Gen 5, I suspect it's different wire and networks. If you compare the cables side by side, you'll quickly hear the improvements on the XL...whether it's worth 2x is up to you. For me, Opus MM2 was easily better than Ref XL MM2-and worth the extra $$'s. I've since updates all Opus MM2 to Gen 5...
 
May 30, 2010
14,139
83
48
Portugal
#28
There is a significate price jump for the same wire but a different tune on it. I was expecting more for ~2x the price.
(...)
No doubt the more precise tune makes it sound better, but still. It's almost like they have a master tune (I.e Magnum Opus) , then created de-tuned / less accurate versions of it as you move down the stack.
IMHO you should listen to these cables - as Transparent will not tell you their recipes and exactly why the price differences, it the best you can ever get on the subject.

BTW, the conspiration theory of de-tuning devices to establish prices is not new - I remember reading a reader letter in TAS long ago denunciating it!:)
 

About us

  • Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing