Transparency vs "Symphonic coloration" in modern DAC gear.

[Audiophile Bill]

You don't even need these filters. All you need is a real good ADC like the Merging Hapi, and temporary use of whatever component that grips your soul and melts your heart with it's wonderful colorations.

How does that work then? You record a log sweep of the component on loan - then what?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Actually you could make a preset for every file, changing parameters for every recording, too bright — roll off the treble , too much bass etc etc.
Which ties in with your thoughts on the other thread.
Keith.

That is true - but it is not required to be done in this way. I could make my own recordings with any piece of gear and get the same result. Acourate actually allows a similar feature by saving digitally corrected versions of your files.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

But Bruce himself elects for a Lampi for his playback of choice and is on record as saying its the best DSD he has heard so far….

If this is the case, no reason to change and I highly doubt some software is gonna emulate that for cheap.. That is my point.

Exactly - this miracle software does not exist!

 

[Audiophile Bill]

This system I'm talking about isn't going to be a simple FIR VST plugin you can simply import into Jrivers VST convolution engine. It's going to be a software/hardware solution aimed at studios and OEM's. The studio version will be north of $10000.

Okay - all the best with your venture.

 

[Blizzard]

How does that work then? You record a log sweep of the component on loan - then what?

It's extremely simple. You''ll need use of your dream DAC for starters and a highly transparent ADC such as the Merging Hapi. Simply playback your music collection through the dream DAC, with the analog outputs attached to the analog inputs of the Hapi, and record it in DSD 256. Once you finish recording the album/track, simply play it back through a very transparent DAC. If the Hapi's ADC and the DAC is truly transparent, the album/track played back from that DAC, will sound identical to listening to the same original track through the dream DAC.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

It's extremely simple. You''ll need use of your dream DAC for starters and a highly transparent ADC such as the Merging Hapi. Simply playback your music collection through the dream DAC, with the analog outputs attached to the analog inputs of the Hapi, and record it in DSD 256. Once you finish recording the album/track, simply play it back through a very transparent DAC. If the Hapi's ADC and the DAC is truly transparent, the album/track played back from that DAC, should sounds identical to listing to the same original track through the dream DAC.

Sorry I get that bit!l

I am talking about generating the ability to change the character of ANY music that I play through my Hapi so that I am Happy

I was under the impression that you were saying that I could measure the dream device and use it to change my whole catalogue!

 

[Blizzard]

Sorry I get that bit!l

I am talking about generating the ability to change the character of ANY music that I play through my Hapi so that I am Happy

I was under the impression that you were saying that I could measure the dream device and use it to change my whole catalogue!

This software will make it easier. Yeah just need to take some measurements from the analog outs of whatever gear your trying to emulate. Then it will create a profile that can be be enabled on demand. You can even set the system up so each individual track/album can have it's own individual profile triggered automatically when it's selected. Lets say, Audio note is great for this CCR album, the Lampi GG is great on this Oscar Peterson, etc. Or oh wow! Bruce B sure did an excellent job on this new DSD 256 discography of the Rolling stones direct from master tape, I think I'll just listen to this raw with no profile triggered.

You can change your whole catalog if you want. Just pick the profile you want and enable it so everything passes through it. You can even blend profiles, say you take a sweep from a MSB/Mcintosh DAC/Pre combo and you save the profile. Then you take another sweep from a Lampi/Audionote DAC/pre combo. You can blend them both together and mix your own cocktails to make your own unique sound profiles as well.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

This software will make it easier. Yeah just need to take some measurements from the analog outs of whatever gear your trying to emulate. Then it will create a profile that can be be enabled on demand. You can even set the system up so each individual track/album can have it's own individual profile triggered automatically when it's selected. Lets say, Audio note is great for this CCR album, the Lampi GG is great on this Oscar Peterson, etc. Or oh wow! Bruce B sure did an excellent job on this new DSD 256 discography of the Rolling stones direct from master tape, I think I'll just listen to this raw with no profile triggered.

You can change your whole catalog if you want. Just pick the profile you want and enable it so everything passes through it.

So what measurements do you require to make a transparent emulator? Just to clarify this will cost $10,000.

 

[Blizzard]

So what measurements do you require to make a transparent emulator? Just to clarify this will cost $10,000.

The software handles the measurements. No knowledge of what it does is required. Somewhere around there including transparent ADC.

 

[wgscott]

This system I'm talking about isn't going to be a simple FIR VST plugin you can simply import into Jrivers VST convolution engine. It's going to be a software/hardware solution aimed at studios and OEM's. The studio version will be north of $10000.

What would be the disadvantage (apart from less profit opportunity) simply to create a piece of software that could empirically obtain a coloration curve from the colored DAC and then use that to create an AU or VST plugin? It would be far simpler for the end user to do that. Also, regardless of which approach gets used, wouldn't this prohibit the use of standard room correction software, which would presumably try to eliminate the coloration as much as possible? At least with the plug-in approach, you could use the plug-in downstream of the room correction.

 

[Blizzard]

What would be the disadvantage (apart from less profit opportunity) simply to create a piece of software that could empirically obtain a coloration curve from the colored DAC and then use that to create an AU or VST plugin? It would be far simpler for the end user to do that. Also, regardless of which approach gets used, wouldn't this prohibit the use of standard room correction software, which would presumably try to eliminate the coloration as much as possible? At least with the plug-in approach, you could use the plug-in downstream of the room correction.

The profiles can be applied just like with VST plugins, but you still need the software and transparent ADC to create the profiles. It can be used in combination with room correction as well. This is aimed at studio use and the OEM market. Maybe a trickle down will make it as a consumer product. But the thing is without completely transparent DAC's used, it won't be accurate. Allowing just anyone to freely use this software without transparent enough hardware will just be a disaster. Because it simply won't work as intended.

 

[Whatmore]

Out of interest Blizzard, why do you think transparent AD-DA is so hard and/or expensive. Have you blind tested any of the cheap pro audio devices ?

 

[wisnon]

Out of interest Blizzard, why do you think transparent AD-DA is so hard and/or expensive. Have you blind tested any of the cheap pro audio devices ?

I repeat, 100% transparency is NOT technically possible.

To think that the properties of a vacuum can be so easily replicated is a fallacy. To think Digital will ever exactly replicate analog, no matter how opristine it gets is another fallacy.

Its sort of thinking a recording will ever equal LIVE….the best we hope for is a convincing illusion.

 

[Blizzard]

Out of interest Blizzard, why do you think transparent AD-DA is so hard and/or expensive. Have you blind tested any of the cheap pro audio devices ?

Your right. From what I hear the Merging Hapi fits the bill. Only $6500 with premium ADDA boards.

 

[Blizzard]

I repeat, 100% transparency is NOT technically possible.

To think that the properties of a vacuum can be so easily replicated is a fallacy. To think Digital will ever exactly replicate analog, no matter how opristine it gets is another fallacy.

Its sort of thinking a recording will ever equal LIVE….the best we hope for is a convincing illusion.

As long as it's close enough to not tell the difference with human ears, good enough. Please read post 68 again.

 

[Whatmore]

Your right. From what I hear the Merging Hapi fits the bill. Only $6500 with premium ADDA boards.

I'm thinking one of the behringer units for a few hundred bucks

 

[Blizzard]

I'm thinking one of the behringer units for a few hundred bucks

Give it a try. If that's the case you can sell your Invicta.

 

[Whatmore]

Give it a try. If that's the case you can sell your Invicta.

My system is fully active with a digital crossover (behringer dcx 2496). The crossover takes analog in (sent from my preamp), converts to digital, does the crossover and then converts back to analog.

Now, what really messes with my head is that my records still sound like records and my Invicta DAC still sounds light years better than the one it replaced. And yet they all go through an AD-DA conversion

 

[Blizzard]

My system is fully active with a digital crossover (behringer dcx 2496). The crossover takes analog in (sent from my preamp), converts to digital, does the crossover and then converts back to analog.

Now, what really messes with my head is that my records still sound like records and my Invicta DAC still sounds light years better than the one it replaced. And yet they all go through an AD-DA conversion

So the Behringer connects straight to the analog outputs of the Invicta?

Good experiment. Put the Behringer in unity mode so it just straight bypasses any DSP functions. Connect it to 2 channels of amps and a good pair of passive speakers. Compare direct from the Invicta into the amps, vs passing through the Behringer.

This is a transparency test for the Behringer. Any DSP chip based DSP xover I tested,failed this test.

 

[Whatmore]

So the Behringer connects straight to the analog outputs of the Invicta?

Good experiment. Put the Behringer in unity mode so it just straight bypasses any DSP functions. Connect it to 2 channels of amps and a good pair of passive speakers. Compare direct from the Invicta into the amps, vs passing through the Behringer.

This is a transparency test for the Behringer. Any DSP chip based DSP xover I tested,failed this test.

Not quite, the Invicta goes into my preamp and from there to the behringer.