This is insane...the Quad ESL

[Big Dog RJ]

The Q-ESL 57's were my very first encounter with stats. From that first note onwards the rest is sweet history! There's absolutely something magical in those stats, and it's certainly nice to see even after well over 4 decades, they're still being enjoyed.

Heard stacked ones driven with a full VAC tube gear, outstanding!
Cheers Awsmone, enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[kswanson27]

A few weeks ago I heard a pair of ESL 63's driven by Anthem STR separates and I was, well, smitten and took the plunge. Based on recommendations from my old friend Tam Henderson I ordered a pair of completely rebuilt ESL 63's from Kent McCollum of Electrostatic Solutions. Jack Skoczek of Entec Subwoofer Service found me an immaculate pair of Entec 2 driver units designed to work with the ESL 63's and has done a small upgrade and checked them out. The Quads and Entecs are shipping to me this week. I'm excited! It's 1986 all over again--except for this fancy server I have.

 

[microstrip]

If we are happy with the limited sweetspot , the loudness and low bass limitations of electrostatics the ESL 63 or derivatives are hard to beat. Their coexistence of coherence, timbre accuracy, micro detail and soundstage capabilities are unique. For example, although Soundlab's have an impressive transparency and scale, they are much more colored than the Quad's.

Their big drawback is room and placement. They will tell you where to place them, you do not tell them where to go. And yes, they sound great with top digital !

 

[kswanson27]

All good points that could detract from most 'stats but I listen solo in my office/listening room so the limited sweetspot is of no concern. I'm told my rebuilt, and I mean TOTALLY rebuilt, 63's will play a little above 90 db all day. That's louder than I'll ever play them (except for peaks) and the subs will handle the bass I think

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one Kswanson!
Those 57's were Art Dudley's personal reference for decades, and his all time favourites.

IInteresting journey... my introduction to CJ gear was actually first with the Q-esl 63's. Driven with a Premier 11A and PV12, placed on top of Gradient subs, it was marvellous! Although the subs weren't that coherent when merging with the subs, it was still wonderful to listen to for endless hours. This sort of presentation you simply don't get on any other type of gear, regardless of price. They're unique towards stats and that's what makes them special.

I truly understand why we like stats. I just love mine (CLX Art's) and there's no other speakers I'd rather own.
Cheers to stats! And oh! Enjoy those fine tunes!
Now that deserves a big WOOF!
Best, RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

My friend owns quads 57 and they are excellent speakers.

 

[Andrew S.]

I just purchased a reconditioned reconstructed pair of Quad ESL

These are on higher stands and have a protection circuit

By chance my Weston push pull kt120 monoblocks drive them superbly

I have never heard a speaker that got the timbre dynamics so correct without any fiddling !
View attachment 43687

My God - these are my old speakers! I had them refurbished by John Hall in Melbourne in or around 2014 - by memory he fitted new extended treble panels, refurbished the bass panels and the electrical circuit had a cut out fitted - he arranged to have them powder coated white and the stands I had custom made. And here they popped up. I think the OP bought them off the fellow in Canberra I sold them too. Those must be his photo's - as it was not my room.

Wow. Pity they can't come back to me. Mind you - my wife protested every pair of 57's I brought home. She didn't see the beauty of our lounge being taken over by my hi fi habits.

True story - the main reason I had them powder coated white, and put them on castors, was so I could wheel them back to sit flush with our off white walls, and so try and make them somewhat sympathetic to our lounge. Sort of worked. I had less complaints.

I truly truly loved that pair - the best of the 3 I owned. Would love to have them back. I had them paired with a Monaco GP TT, a Len Gregory Music Maker MM cartridge and a Croft integrated with its excellent phono stage. The reason I chose Croft was Glenn uses 57's, and all his amplifiers are made to cope with their impedance curves. It was only 35 wpc, just enough in a smaller room or close listening, the 57's never playing loudly in any event.

I intended to go right up the Croft line - the integrated was to see if I liked his sound - but then various factors meant the whole system was sold. One I really regret.

So that is their history. And a big hello to @awsmone !

Edit: 57's are indeed thought of as difficult to match. I once used a Cayin 40wpc push pull KT 88 integrated to much success. That was in a small apartment with them about 1m out from the back walls and about 2.5 m to the front wall (long and thin apartment). It fairly fizzed when turned up. I also tried the original Quad Pre & Powers (404's by memory) - it was ok but not terrific. A Leak 20 partnered well - a friend had one with a Shindo pre into his 57's. Point being - expensive amplification isn't necessary. Just some thought.

One set I had I partnered with a couple of self power small subs (gosh wish I could remember what they were - can picture them black with plate amplifiers and cross over's built in - like a couple shoe boxes with push pull (dipole) drivers, ported). I put the cut off at around 60Hz. They seemed to me to blend in well enough. Later I thought it not worth the effort.

In 2010-2011 I owned 2905's on Townsend Seismic stands with his super tweeters. I had reliability problems with them from new which was annoying. Overall they were a more complete speaker than the 57, but I never thought the mids of the 57's were equaled.

The other speakers I have owned close to the 57 for mid range was the Eclipse TD 712 Mk II's - which were my wife's favourite speakers. I would own another pair in a jiffy - again a speaker you had better think carefully about partnering with - very fussy. The Loth X Troubadour discussed in Carlos' system in these pages I heard at my now deceased friend's place had similarly excellent mid range, were almost as fast, and had better extension. Different beast of course.

Of course, speakers like the CLX Series etc leave all in the dust (heard the CLX at the then dealer in Sydney in around 2010 and was mesmerized)

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Nice one Andrew, great bit of history there!

Yep, had a very similar experience with all my Quads, not so much the 57's and 63's (apart from over-driving issues) but absolute disaster with the 2905's! During and after warranty they failed miserably, several panels one at a time, including a mains HT tranny in both! No one could do the repair, they were all guessing and made it worse...

Had to call in the specialist, J Hall, and he spent two days refurbed both to fantastic specs. As soon as they were up and running I sold them off (actually did a trade in for the CLX's and paid the difference) it was a deal I couldn't resist. So from the CLX's I've never looked back, the rest is history!

However, whenever I do get a chance to listen to Quads, either 57's or stacked ones, I really enjoy the experience. The amplifiers are most critical and since lately my last private audition was fantastic! The owner was using a full array of Lamm Audio monoblocks, those Lamm's are something else. Very nice.

Cheers mate, and most of all enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

This is the pic of the HT tranny that I still have just as a momento about the true pain and disaster caused...
It's pretty much a toy! And three of these are found inside a Quad stat that costs 20grand!

Anyway, never looked back... but the refurbed ones are way better, more British parts and original stuff.
Cheers, RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

my friend has never had any problems with his 57s. I think this old model was very reliable.

 

[Andrew S.]

During and after warranty they failed miserably, several panels one at a time, including a mains HT tranny in both! No one could do the repair, they were all guessing and made it worse...

Exactly my experience. I spoke to a UK rep from Quad who said quality control had gone out the window once the company was sold and they were manufactured in China. He couldn't have been nicer but at the time told me that worldwide all the factory trained and dedicated service technicians kept on staff had been let go, and now 'service technicians' - appointed by tender - were all that was available. Unless the local distributer paid to keep a tech. on staff out of his pocket, repairs were left to the lowest bidder and a 200 page technical manual. He said if I was in the UK they would have arranged pick up and replacement, repaired them, and either sold them as demo with full warranty or at the option of the manufacturer returned to them (they had done the deal where the manufacturer picked up the tab with all warranty work).

I wasn't impressed by the Australian Quad distributor at all. Would never buy their brand again. Life is too short. 57's - well that is different. Not sure if John Hall is still restoring them.

I sold mine off on SNA. CLX was a great trade - stunning speaker. Well done.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I've shared my painful disastrous journey with Quads (specifically the 2905's) on another tab here, I think it's under the stat threads somewhere. It's a fairly lengthy post and provides details on how I went about it and how unfairly we (both myself and my dealer) were treated by the Aus importer. So I really don't want to dwell on this anymore plus I've moved on.

However, there's something interesting about J Hall. When we took the speakers apart, he wanted to teach me on how to do these such intricate repairs, and so I learned a few things from the maestro. I learned how to de-fuse the lethal high voltages using the special probe, then take each of the 6 panels apart... and eventually put them back together. This whole process takes about 3hrs on each speaker, that is just taking them apart... and another few more hours to assemble them. The panel repairs are done at his place. He's the only one whom I know that has the original conductive paint used to coat each panel/ Mylar attachment. It is this conductive paint that is very precious, and if the thickness of this paint is not upto spec, the whole thing is wrong...

JH also uses a slightly thicker carbon application on the stators, which cause them to look darker than the Chinese made ones coming out of the IGA factory. This high grade carbon version of JH's is far superior to the Chinese ones, including the original British version, and this is what makes JH's refurbs special. This is where the real skill is involved, not just the dissemble/ reassemble of parts... JH even has a specially made jig for tensioning the Mylar according to precise tolerances, which even the Chinese factory doesn't do so precisely, hence why their quality is in the - - - - house!

And so, he wanted to teach me the trade saying that I had a steady hand... well I guess so since I've also replaced more than 17 tweeter ribbons on various models of Maggie's. (Just replaced a tweeter ribbon on one chaps 20.7's last week) I asked JH why he wanted to pass this on:
1. Said that I've got the skill & patience to do this type of work.
2. I've got the steady hand and eye for detail
3. That he's getting on in years and wanted to pass it onto someone who's passionate about stats.

Yes, I certainly would have been honoured to do that for JH, however after he showed me one of his cupboards and looked at the number of damaged panels waiting to be repaired... I thought to myself, I'm not yet ready to retire just to rebuild Quads! Plus I had another full time job, a family to tend to, a household to run plus a cat and fish tank to maintain, not to mention an adolescent daughter... so I didn't take up the opportunity.

I'm not sure what JH is doing now but I do that he's slowed down a lot, and there are others who can refurb stats but I'm not sure if they have the original paints for Quads... there's one chap in Perth I think who does but I forget his name.

Anyway, I can still take apart and put together a full Quad ESL 2905 or 2912 for that matter and can still change over those pain in the butt Maggie ribbon tweeters.

Moving production overseas was the biggest mistake Quad did but they had no choice after the giant IAG bought them over. They had to bow down to their terms or else...
I do remember though, quite a few years back speaking to Ross Walker, PW's son, mentioned he was extremely saddened to see how production facilities were being developed outside of his control, and further went onto to say that those who are truly passionate about Quads or stats in general, will always find a way to get them well looked after by the right mob. That's exactly what I did!

Cheers to P Walker and J Hall, true legends!
Enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[Argonaut]

Nice skills to possess RJ...I have refurbished a few 57’s myself, the decades of micro dirt that accumulates on those dust covers Is something else...It certainly sounds as tho JH’s refurbished panels would be the closest to a pair of brand new original Quad factory production 57’s...the refurbed panels available today make for a superbly musical speaker , however they do seem to lack that finite elemental magic of Quads own 60’s/70’s production...

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, true partly due to the original parts used back then. According to JH, back then they used currently available top grade trannys, including caps, coils, resistors that were solely handmade in Britain. These were firmly established and sourced from British suppliers who knew the trade/skill and only demanded the best. They were very critical in their processes and quality control. Virtually everything was passed by the legend himself, PW.

Sadly and may I say, very sadly this is not the case now, simply because industry ownerships change, those with buying power exploit the trade, undermining the true potential and required talent to keep these things going... so the new companies just can't deliver on that premise alone, they rather focus on bulk and quantities to move out...

The opposite of this is a classic example of CJ. Where they use to offer a more affordable line up- the PV, MV and Premier series. Now they dropped that entire line, and only focus on a handful of gear that is SOTA at sota prices... the ET and GAT series is basically it, with the exception of the Classic series to add to the line. Again, limited resources being stretched out and only one or two top techies who really know their stuff. One of those top techies happens to be the owner/ president of CJ, J Fischel himself!

If Quad as company were to retain that pristine quality during their hay day, they would have a handful of techies who would be passionate, dedicated and most of loyal to PW's vision. They were exactly that but things and times changed... I don't think they really thought it through before and after the demise of PW. Just my 50cts worth from reliable sources...

Sometimes I do miss that laid back superb depth and pristine midrange those Quads were capable of. Especially partnered with CJ amplification, it was marvellous! I still do get that reproduction, and ample depth from the CLX's but of course with much greater transparency and realism, it's just a different route.
Overall, if nothing ever happened to my ESL2905's or the 2912's, I would have just kept them!

Once you've hit that mark, that's pretty much it! Hence, there's really no point in trying to change or upgrade constantly. I guess that's why ESL fans are starting to rediscover their old stats, and just how wonderful they actually are!

Enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ

 

[Argonaut]

Sometimes I do miss that laid back superb depth and pristine midrange those Quads were capable of. Especially partnered with CJ amplification, it was marvellous! I still do get that reproduction, and ample depth from the CLX's but of course with much greater transparency and realism, it's just a different route.
Overall, if nothing ever happened to my ESL2905's or the 2912's, I would have just kept them!

Once you've hit that mark, that's pretty much it! Hence, there's really no point in trying to change or upgrade constantly. I guess that's why ESL fans are starting to rediscover their old stats, and just how wonderful they actually are!

Enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ

Ahmen to that...Re your current weapon of choice, I really wouldn’t look backward to your days with the 2905’s n 2912’s RJ , I also ran both models and your CLX’s are an evolutionary step forward in every particular.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

It’s amazing some owners never have any trouble with there quads and others do. I guess it’s just luck.

 

[Argonaut]

It’s amazing some owners never have any trouble with there quads and others do. I guess it’s just luck.

Au contraire...I had panels go on both the 2805 , 2905 and 2912.

 

[Andrew S.]

I think the 29xx series in particular were troublesome - or so I understood at the time - but many 57s/63’s go forever without a hitch - the sound quality degrades slowly and many owners don't really notice it.

I agree the CLX is a much - well just plain better - speaker, at least to my ears.

RJ - concur - the Quad importer was a shocker. Secondly - amazing vote of confidence in you from John Hall - one of life’s true gentlemen. I know the wind went out of his sails when his father passed around 6-7 years ago. And as much as I’d love 57s again - I don’t have the health or energy for the fuss anymore.

I’m also extremely wary of who I deal with in Australia- mind you - I know who is who in the industry if and when I decide to climb back in. And I happily buy second hand.

The attraction of the TD712s are their speed realism build quality and great importer - same as Esoteric and Grand Prix Audio.

I can see those in my retirement system.

Then again I could also happily live with 30.1s or even LS3/5as. Which shows my bias and priorities: I like a small 'lived in' space (no dedicated listening rooms for me), low listening levels, a fast speaker for transients, not fussy, don’t take up real estate, and not especially expensive.

I don’t like spending money on hi fi, I do like listening to music.

Besides in this world gone mad I happen to think 20k should get you a lovely sounding system. Not sota nor likely excite anyone on WBF but interesting and good. Plenty of interesting systems on WBF around that mark, to be fair. More attention is paid to the very expensive systems - which is natural - but I love it when I come across someone who has put together something special from less. Or who has bucked conventional wisdom.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I think the 29xx series in particular were troublesome - or so I understood at the time - but many 57s/63’s go forever without a hitch - the sound quality degrades slowly and many owners don't really notice it.

I agree the CLX is a much - well just plain better - speaker, at least to my ears.

RJ - concur - the Quad importer was a shocker. Secondly - amazing vote of confidence in you from John Hall - one of life’s true gentlemen. I know the wind went out of his sails when his father passed around 6-7 years ago. And as much as I’d love 57s again - I don’t have the health or energy for the fuss anymore.

I’m also extremely wary of who I deal with in Australia- mind you - I know who is who in the industry if and when I decide to climb back in. And I happily buy second hand.

The attraction of the TD712s are their speed realism build quality and great importer - same as Esoteric and Grand Prix Audio.

I can see those in my retirement system.

Then again I could also happily live with 30.1s or even LS3/5as. Which shows my bias and priorities: I like a small 'lived in' space (no dedicated listening rooms for me), low listening levels, a fast speaker for transients, not fussy, don’t take up real estate, and not especially expensive.

I don’t like spending money on hi fi, I do like listening to music.

Besides in this world gone mad I happen to think 20k should get you a lovely sounding system. Not sota nor likely excite anyone on WBF but interesting and good. Plenty of interesting systems on WBF around that mark, to be fair. More attention is paid to the very expensive systems - which is natural - but I love it when I come across someone who has put together something special from less. Or who has bucked conventional wisdom.

Nicely stated Andy, I agree 110% without a doubt!
There are plenty of gear out there for far less than retail goes... and with careful attention and planning, the combinations are limitless. Plus the results are truly a masterpiece. That's why I don't upgrade just for the sake of a newer model coming out (unless there was no other option). Instead I've upgraded laterally across all gear, involving SE upgrades, Class A bias operation adjustments, additional Teflons, Vishays etc., that has given me the most significant improvement in performance percentage. The only unit I did buy brand new was the Esoteric gear, and that's because at that particular price point, there wasn't really anything less than 10grand that could beat (brand new...) for me it was real vfm.
I see that you are in touch with AV Gallery, great team to work with, true gentlemen, not those pushy sales types blinking $$$ signs...

Cheers Andy,
Have a good one, and oh! Do enjoy those fine tunes!
Best, RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Ahmen to that...Re your current weapon of choice, I really wouldn’t look backward to your days with the 2905’s n 2912’s RJ , I also ran both models and your CLX’s are an evolutionary step forward in every particular.

Cheers to that Moon.
Yep, it was CLX's for me as the final choice, although I did have about 5 top picks and then finalised on 3... even paid a deposit on the AG Duo XD's, and ended up CLX's. Just awe-inspiring they are.

Having said that, I really don't want to hijack this thread by the OP Awsmone, since this is about Quads...
As a final note, which is sort of reassuring, it's certainly good to know that there are dedicated and knowledgeable people who can provide top quality parts for Quad refurbs, such as trannys, caps, coils, resistors, diodes and panels. All of these either made in Aus, US, UK or Japan are way way beyond anything coming out of China.
It's just a matter of getting in touch with these people across state and accessing parts. However, due to this Covid nonsense, things really slowed down. I hope we can bounce back.

Cheers Moon, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Best, RJ