The Harmonizer

audioguy

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if blind testing works for you, then i respect that.

Unfortunately, in my earlier days in this hobby, it worked for me AFTER I had already spent the money. I have, since those days, not spent some money I would have spent using blind testing to tell me if the product does what I "wanted" it to do. Can't have expectation bias if I don't know what I'm listening to.
 

NorthStar

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-- Classical music (orchestral, symphonies with a zillion of violins and flutes, ...) is that hard to reproduce faithfully in one's own listening room?

That 'Harmonizer' thing, would that help? ...At recreating that 'perception' of deep ambiance (acoustic space) of the original recording's venue? ...The immense hall with all the musicians and spectators (concert goers, classical music listeners). ...The entire orchestra, and all there is in that hall.
 

RBFC

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As with many aspects of this hobby, it is up to the individual HOW to spend their own money. Those giving advice cross the line when they insult the individual whose money is being spent. Opinions and advice are welcome, but personal attacks at a member are against the TOS. Please keep this in mind as the discussion continues.

Lee
 

LL21

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my speakers are rated at -3db at 7hz and -6db at 3hz. i have not measured in-room. the speaker designer will be visiting 'soon' for set-up tweaking and he will measure in room with his tools.

i now hear things in recordings which it's not likely the mixing and mastering engineer knew where there. the ambient information is very complete when it's on the recording. deep bass retrieval has musical implications.

SMOKES!!! Now THAT is C-O-O-L!!! At that level, the question is what are you FEELING when signals come thru down that low in the recording? How often in your collection so far do you actually feel stuff down that level? Can you describe it? Perhaps using some tracks perhaps that many of us might know? Kind of Blue, or Karajan's 1963 Beethoven Symphonies, or Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon? Very very curious!!!
 

NorthStar

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Well, i have done enough reading and web based research to believe there might be something to this technology. The stein device is way too expensive, the Acoustic Revive RR-77 can be purchased for about $450, and there are knockoffs that are about $160 out there.
I'll most likely get the cheap knockoff device and see for myself.

---- Yes please Tim, give us the full 'scope' of your findings in your own system; I am most certainly interested to hear it from you, in your own words.
 
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NorthStar

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SMOKES!!! Now THAT is C-O-O-L!!! At that level, the question is what are you FEELING when signals come thru down that low in the recording? How often in your collection so far do you actually feel stuff down that level? Can you describe it? Perhaps using some tracks perhaps that many of us might know? Kind of Blue, or Karajan's 1963 Beethoven Symphonies, or Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon? Very very curious!!!

---- Lloyd, you are probably already aware that some Telarc music recordings have ultra low bass (infrasonic frequencies) 'encoded' into them (CDs), in the very low 5 Hz region.

Me, personally, I can certainly not feel them as my main system is very limited (24 Hz at -6 dB).
...And that even ain't from my two 15" subs, but from my mains.
{Some subs, like the Paradigm Reference Signature SUB 2 ($9,000), can do -3 decibel at 12 hertz.}
...Measured!

But me too, I'd love to hear from Mike. :b
 
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mep

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Lloyd-There is very little music from actual instruments (and not a synthesizer) that comes anywhere near that low in frequency. Big pipe organs can do 16Hz which you feel more than you hear. That will not only pressurize your room, but it will pressurize your internal organs as well (how fitting as it comes from an organ). And yet and yet, as I said before in a previous thread that I started, the room lives and breathes in the bass. There is just something special that is going on at very low frequencies that adds to the realism of the music if you can reproduce it. I really do think you are hearing how the room that the music was recorded in is reacting to the sounds of the instrument(s) that were recorded within the walls.
 

NorthStar

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Lloyd-There is very little music from actual instruments (and not a synthesizer) that comes anywhere near that low in frequency. Big pipe organs can do 16Hz which you feel more than you hear. That will not only pressurize your room, but it will pressurize your internal organs as well (how fitting as it comes from an organ). And yet and yet, as I said before in a previous thread that I started, the room lives and breathes in the bass. There is just something special that is going on at very low frequencies that adds to the realism of the music if you can reproduce it. I really do think you are hearing how the room that the music was recorded in is reacting to the sounds of the instrument(s) that were recorded within the walls.

---- But Mark, some special effects from synthesizers,
I thought can go much lower than that (16 Hz from them 64' big pipe organs).
 

mep

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Bob-I excluded synthesizers because they can play very low but are not "normal" musical instruments in the classical sense.
 

RBFC

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Some of the posts in this thread discuss the Schumann frequency of 7.83 Hz. This fundamental resonance, which may contribute to a sense of naturalness and realism, can be reproduced with Mike's system. There are several qualities that "escape" attempts to mimic live music. Perhaps this ultra-low-frequency reproduction is one element that can help us to believe a recording is "more real". I've heard many very good systems that, while great, are instantly identifiable as "not real". The pressurization of the room by ULF is one factor that has always made me feel the illusion is more complete.

Lee
 

mep

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Some of the posts in this thread discuss the Schumann frequency of 7.83 Hz. This fundamental resonance, which may contribute to a sense of naturalness and realism, can be reproduced with Mike's system. There are several qualities that "escape" attempts to mimic live music. Perhaps this ultra-low-frequency reproduction is one element that can help us to believe a recording is "more real". I've heard many very good systems that, while great, are instantly identifiable as "not real". The pressurization of the room by ULF is one factor that has always made me feel the illusion is more complete.

Lee

Bummer-my speakers are *only* rated down to 11Hz.
 

NorthStar

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Bob-I excluded synthesizers because they can play very low but are not "normal" musical instruments in the classical sense.

---- Mmm interesting. Yeah, I know what you just said, but me, music encompasses everything that is tonally rhythmic and melodic, including synthesizers.

And that, in the 'normal/classical' sense. :b
 

Whatmore

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Some of the posts in this thread discuss the Schumann frequency of 7.83 Hz. This fundamental resonance, which may contribute to a sense of naturalness and realism, can be reproduced with Mike's system. There are several qualities that "escape" attempts to mimic live music. Perhaps this ultra-low-frequency reproduction is one element that can help us to believe a recording is "more real". I've heard many very good systems that, while great, are instantly identifiable as "not real". The pressurization of the room by ULF is one factor that has always made me feel the illusion is more complete.

Lee

The Schumann resonance is an electromagnetic phenomenon. Last time I checked, humans couldn't hear light
 

LL21

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Lloyd-There is very little music from actual instruments (and not a synthesizer) that comes anywhere near that low in frequency. Big pipe organs can do 16Hz which you feel more than you hear. That will not only pressurize your room, but it will pressurize your internal organs as well (how fitting as it comes from an organ). And yet and yet, as I said before in a previous thread that I started, the room lives and breathes in the bass. There is just something special that is going on at very low frequencies that adds to the realism of the music if you can reproduce it. I really do think you are hearing how the room that the music was recorded in is reacting to the sounds of the instrument(s) that were recorded within the walls.

Totally agree, mep. i have a Velodyne DD18 so good bass, but not extreme subsonic...it will get down into the teens hz. but i still feel it everytime the CD track goes live...but before the instrument in a live venue recording...there is this rush of pressure and it seems to fill the room. quite cool. i was just wondering if in Mike's system with its clean ability to go into single digit hz, whether the 'rush' and 'pressure' are bigger, different, etc.
 

LL21

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GaryProtein

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RBFC

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The Schumann resonance is an electromagnetic phenomenon. Last time I checked, humans couldn't hear light

Last I checked, light has both wavelength and frequency. We can't "hear" light because its frequency lies extremely far above the range of hearing:

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/light/spectrum.html

Since humans hear sound as vibrations with defined wavelength and frequency, it stands to reason that we can hear or feel it if it is within the envelope of our senses. We're talking about 7.83 Hz, not something in the billions of Hz! I'd suggest researching your facts before making statements.

I don't know if the devices in question have any effect or not. The basic physics of hearing and sensation, however, are not so unclear.

Lee
 

JackD201

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My measuring tools don't go below 20Hz but I've got a lot of 20 in in-room response. Manufacturer claims my speakers can go flat to 16Hz boosted. At 8Hz though I'd be worried about making "softer" things in the room like gypsum or drywall resonate. I've already had to re-secure lighting fixtures that began to rattle and I don't listen very loud very often.

Color me skeptical. What amplitude of subsonics is this thing putting out anyway? Biologically I believe we are wired to filter these frequencies out unlike Elephants that use them for communication.
 

GaryProtein

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Last I checked, light has both wavelength and frequency. We can't "hear" light because its frequency lies extremely far above the range of hearing:

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/light/spectrum.html

Since humans hear sound as vibrations with defined wavelength and frequency, it stands to reason that we can hear or feel it if it is within the envelope of our senses. We're talking about 7.83 Hz, not something in the billions of Hz! I'd suggest researching your facts before making statements.

I don't know if the devices in question have any effect or not. The basic physics of hearing and sensation, however, are not so unclear.

Lee

You can't hear what you call "light" [visible light] because it it electromagnetic transverse wave. By that description, you should be able to hear very low frequency radio waves [pretty far below AM radio], but you cannot hear those either because the ear detects sound which is a mechanical longitudinal wave. :D
 

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