Telefunken M15 vs Studer A80RC

[Audiophile Bill]

I have done that... I recorded the same material on six different high caliber decks, including these two.

These two finished last in the group. And that was the opinion of several different listeners, on more than one playback system.

Amazingly, people assigned similar sounding characteristics to them.

Hi Foxbat,

What were the machines and what was the order of preference? Thanks!

Since your listening panel assigned similar sounding characteristics to these two, does that mean the panel aren’t very experienced or have decent listening skills since they are very different sounding in reality?

 

[Foxbat]

The machines used in that test were Studer A80R, Telefunken M15A, Mechlabor STM-310, Mara MCI JH-110, Schlumberger Digitec F500 and Studer A810. Later the Ampex ATR-102 was also used.

In the first group everyone quickly identified the MCI as their machine of choice. It produced very good quality recording. I thought the STM-310 was very close, but a bit too forward, so it lost a few points there. The Digitec F500 surprised me with its mellow tone, it was a pleasant, a bit romantic machine.

I grouped the Studer and the Telefunken because they displayed strong similarity, that dominated their impression. They were too dark and lacking life, IN COMPARISON to the other decks.

The Ampex ruled the test, it gave by far the best result, it was hard to fault its sound in any particular aspect, you just wanted to listen to it.

Studer A810 was just a tad behind the MCI. While I usually dislike its playback, its recording turned out to be acceptable.

As far as the panel's skills... let me just smile at that... there were many decades of serious experience between them.

It was also interesting, that similar ratings were obtained on three very different systems.

Victor Khomenko
Balanced Audio Technology

 

[microstrip]

I have done that... I recorded the same material on six different high caliber decks, including these two.

These two finished last in the group. And that was the opinion of several different listeners, on more than one playback system.

Amazingly, people assigned similar sounding characteristics to them.

Did you take measurements on the machines?

 

[DasguteOhr]

I have done that... I recorded the same material on six different high caliber decks, including these two.

These two finished last in the group. And that was the opinion of several different listeners, on more than one playback system.

Amazingly, people assigned similar sounding characteristics to them.

Since you are an audio professional, I assume that all machines were measured on the tape, otherwise the comparison lags.
I don't know what kind of machines you have to compete against the M15a. it is a good machine you can get it for 2000-3000 €. I don't think there is any competition for the price.

Measure (calibrate):
First of all, the reproduction has to be correct. For this you need a reference band with a frequency response part. The level must be the same at all frequencies. Make sure there is equalization after NAB and after CCIR. M15As mostly have CCIR equalization. The following potentiometers are on the playback amplifier cards:
P level
Deep lows
HI heights I
HII heights II
Blue is 19 cm / s, red is 38 cm / s.

It looks similar when recorded. The premagnetization (VM) is set as specified by the tape manufacturer. The pots HI and HII are set accordingly for frequency response correction. The setting is made at -20 dB, not at full level!

 

[Foxbat]

All the machines I have are well calibrated, so yes. They are also calibrated using similar approach.

For more information - the tape was SM468, and the playback system in the initial evaluation was using a separate Flux Magnetics playback head mounted on the MCI, connected to an external tube head preamp. The recording levels were closely matched between the machines.

 

[Foxbat]

Since you are an audio professional, I assume that all machines were measured on the tape, otherwise the comparison lags.
I don't know what kind of machines you have to compete against the M15a. it is a good machine you can get it for 2000-3000 €. I don't think there is any competition for the price.

Don't take me wrong, I love the Telefunken, I love using it, and often play tapes on it. And you are correct, it is one hell of a machine in that price range. I think the F500 could be considered its competition, and also the STM-310. Other machines were more expensive.

 

[DasguteOhr]

all right .. thanks for your answer. I was writing in English because you had already answered. It remains strange when we have compared machines. studer had the better reproduction and telefunken the better recording

 

[DasguteOhr]

I get really excited about tape machines again, when I read that I think I'll get my Tandberg out of the box

Schlumberger i only knew the turntable from them. thanks

 

[Foxbat]

all right .. thanks for your answer. I was writing in English because you had already answered. It remains strange when we have compared machines. studer had the better reproduction and telefunken the better recording

All my responses have been regarding their recording quality, not playback. As far as the reproduction is concerned... I can play the Telefunken through its internal circuits and that produces very good quality. Studer - not really, so I only play it through Sepea direct output cards, and into the head preamp.

I am not forcing my opinion on anyone... it is how I feel. But the recording quality test produced similar results with several different people, so I feel fairly secure about it.

 

[DasguteOhr]

You're right: many ears hear better than two, our test at the time was A807 versus M15a. the Studer had better treble and livelier and the telefunken had more substance in the bass. Studer was the more neutral of the two

 

[Foxbat]

You're right: many ears hear better than two, our test at the time was A807 versus M15a. the Studer had better treble and livelier and the telefunken had more substance in the bass. Studer was the more neutral of the two

That is one gorgeous turntable in your picture - yours? I LOVE the way the Schlumberger equipment is designed, clearly, it was put together by people who knew what they were doing, it is beautiful inside and out. It is also virtually unknown here.

As far as the tape decks... I am really not a Studer lover. As a designer, I DO love the way they are put together, and the way they operate... but their sound leaves me totally cold. I have four of them, and two are working with external head preamps, the other two just provide the visual and and almost sensual enjoyment.

 

[DasguteOhr]

That is one gorgeous turntable in your picture - yours? I LOVE the way the Schlumberger equipment is designed, clearly, it was put together by people who knew what they were doing, it is beautiful inside and out. It is also virtually unknown here.

As far as the tape decks... I am really not a Studer lover. As a designer, I DO love the way they are put together, and the way they operate... but their sound leaves me totally cold. I have four of them, and two are working with external head preamps, the other two just provide the visual and and almost sensual enjoyment.

No is not mine ... unfortunately.
Schlumberger worked closely with EMT, it's practically the French version. the Pierre Clement cartridge sounds similar to a Neumann DST cartridge. nice, warm sounded without being annoying. most of them are mono carts.
Biggest Model

 

[DasguteOhr]

for everyone who wants to start tape machines a Tandberg TD 20A is a 4 motor machine. really a fantastic sounding machine. clean open dynamic sound.
Exsample

 

[Foxbat]

I would LOVE to have one like this... I love such outside-the-mainstream items. So I have a couple of Lyrec machines I cherish, even though their sound is not much to write home about. They are visually striking and their operation is smooth as silk.

BTW, I am still trying to locate the service manual for Schlumberger F500... any advice on where I should try?

Tandberg I love from outside, always have... but internally it is a big disappointment. I would still not mind having one, just for its looks. At this point the only Tandberg I have is the portable Model 11, which I love.

 

[DasguteOhr]

expensive Service Manual 220sites 49€ here only in France scroll down

Enregistreurs analogiques Schlumberger d'occasion - Audiofanzine

2 petites annonces Enregistreurs analogiques Schlumberger d'occasion, récentes et gratuites.

fr.audiofanzine.com

Yes . Tandberg not really good inside.
But it is robust 10 years have no problems with it and it sounds really good.

you must register there ...france not easy

 

[Audiophile Bill]

The machines used in that test were Studer A80R, Telefunken M15A, Mechlabor STM-310, Mara MCI JH-110, Schlumberger Digitec F500 and Studer A810. Later the Ampex ATR-102 was also used.

In the first group everyone quickly identified the MCI as their machine of choice. It produced very good quality recording. I thought the STM-310 was very close, but a bit too forward, so it lost a few points there. The Digitec F500 surprised me with its mellow tone, it was a pleasant, a bit romantic machine.

I grouped the Studer and the Telefunken because they displayed strong similarity, that dominated their impression. They were too dark and lacking life, IN COMPARISON to the other decks.

The Ampex ruled the test, it gave by far the best result, it was hard to fault its sound in any particular aspect, you just wanted to listen to it.

Studer A810 was just a tad behind the MCI. While I usually dislike its playback, its recording turned out to be acceptable.

As far as the panel's skills... let me just smile at that... there were many decades of serious experience between them.

It was also interesting, that similar ratings were obtained on three very different systems.

Victor Khomenko
Balanced Audio Technology

Thank you very much, Victor, for your detailed reply. I don’t suppose you tried with external tape preamps at all or all with their native internal preamps?

edit later reading thread - ignore this - I see you were only using for recording not playback. But my question below on which external tape preamp you use with your Studer is still relevant

 

[Audiophile Bill]

All my responses have been regarding their recording quality, not playback. As far as the reproduction is concerned... I can play the Telefunken through its internal circuits and that produces very good quality. Studer - not really, so I only play it through Sepea direct output cards, and into the head preamp.

I am not forcing my opinion on anyone... it is how I feel. But the recording quality test produced similar results with several different people, so I feel fairly secure about it.

Which external tape preamp are you using for the Studer via the Sepea direct out?

 

[Foxbat]

I build head preamps by modifying our VK-P10/12 phono stages, the modification is not complicated, I have done four so far, one is working with A80.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I build head preamps by modifying our VK-P10/12 phono stages, the modification is not complicated, I have done four so far, one is working with A80.

Oh wow - I see. Very good.

 

[andromedaaudio]

My telefunken was the flattest telefunken they ( eternal arts ) had ever measured .
Only a bit roll off in the bass