TechDAS Air Force Zero (real final photo)

[Vienna]

But even VPI Prime Signature sounds better than AF3 and AF5, I had great expectations from these turntables when I was looking to upgrade, and I was so disappointed with the sound at the Techdas Greek dealer’s studio

 

[spiritofmusic]

Jeffrey, when I popped in to my fave Indian restaurant in London, asked my buddy the chief waiter how much he would consider spending on his dream audio system, and told him in response that I spent more than that amount on an audiophile fuse...and then bought 17 more of the same...and that my entire system spend has been 10,000X his, he gave me THAT look.

But he had no qualms imagining spending the same sum on an Aston and a run around for down the shops.

 

[bonzo75]

Value in luxury goods is in the eye of the beholder. If I had $150K, I'd buy a AS-2000 over a Porsche G3 in a heart beat. All of my non-audiophile friends would think I was crazy.

I bet the Air Force will sound wonderful at any price point.

As this is WBF, question is more if you will buy AS over AF1 or the other way round, and how will you go about deciding

 

[PeterA]

As this is WBF, question is more if you will buy AS over AF1 or the other way round, and how will you go about deciding

I think that is right, Kedar. That is what this discussion forum is about, or could be.

This is an interesting thread and has gone in a fairly predictable direction, unfortunately. The OP started out as a photograph and description of a pinnacle design from a renowned designer. There seems to be a lot of interest for those reasons, and for the build up to this debut in Tokyo. The readers don't know much besides the price, the image, and the description. Few people have heard it, and even fewer have directly compared its sound to other tables. And, apparently, it is still a work in progress. So for now, we are left to speculate, to imagine, and to criticise because this is a discussion board, and we have little else to discuss regarding this achievement in turntable design.

I look forward to reading more reports from different demonstrations around the globe as they come in. I commend those who make the effort to produce such products because of their passion and dedication, and their ability to see it through. I think it is incredible, actually, just like watching David produce his AS2000 or Marc Gomez make his SAT arms. I also admire Technics for reintroducing their DD turntable, and SME for engineering their old and new arms and tables in much higher numbers so that many more people can enjoy good sound. This is great stuff, all of it.

We are better off as a group of similarly minded vinyl guys when such projects get realized. Discussions about the industry, pricing, other hobbies and values, should find their place in other threads opened to discuss such topics. I am sorry for my role in taking the discussion away from this new turntable.

 

[rockitman]

As this is WBF, question is more if you will buy AS over AF1 or the other way round, and how will you go about deciding

It’s best not having to decide and own both. It is nice to have a least one TT with vacuum hold down when needed. I like the design aesthetic of the original AF1. I do not like the look of the paint/bling of the AF1 premium.

To my eye the aesthetic of the zero is not great. It’s as if designed from the platter on out. It missed the mark on the holistic design approach.

 

[christoph]

As this is WBF, question is more if you will buy AS over AF1 or the other way round, and how will you go about deciding

Or the Vygr?

 

[XV-1]

Or the Vygr?

What is the resale value on a Vygr? 15%

How do you know what version it is?

 

[TLi]

The only thing I am going to say about the zero that is negative other than price is only two tonearms. Two is not enough at this level, imo.

Good point. In fact the symmetric design on top level can easily be modified to accommodate up to four arms.

Since AF0 is small number production, everyone can be made to order. I think TechDAS can add extra arm slots if the customer requested so.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I consider our preternaturally affable JackD a very stable and reliable barometer. When JackD gets aggravated it means, unfortunately, that someone, or something, has jumped the rails and crashed.

Have a scotch, Jack, and then please come back and straighten us all out!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Jack, thank you for your thoughtful post. And certainly you’ve never come across to me as anything but kind and generous on WBF. I hope you don’t stop posting here.

I think it’s more that some of us want to know what truly justifies a $500k spinner- 4x the price of the AF1. Even when compared to the WAMM it’s tough. Hence my question on tech and the response was a multi metal platter and some new air bladder control.

I also think it would have been way cooler for Nishikawasan to create a killer $10k TT as his swan song to the “masses” vs this monstrosity which only caters to the uber rich Hifi market. But that’s the market these days- sell 10 of these vs thousands to regular audiophiles. TechDAS cheapest TT is what 40k? The average Stereophile readers entire system is less than $25k.

So it’s not that I’m not excited about sweet new, and often expensive gear- it’s just a sad reflection on our shrinking hobby. When we have $25k interconnects, $10k power cords, $15k cartridges, et al it’s just become stupidity to some of us. And it’s certainly not a single product or brand.

And many of the same audiophiles you say are saving their $ are the ones who require 30%+ off list and hence another reason MSRPs have exploded. Not to mention many of the same guys are the cheapest and go around dealers, etc while poo-pooing the lack of them and the “industry”. They get better deals than the rest of us simply because of the $ involved and manufacturers don’t care.

I hope the AF0 is truly a technological marvel and look forward to reading Fremers review- but it’s not unhealthy to have a little skepticism.

Cheers!

Hopefully, it is the sound which justifies the price of the Air Force Zero. I hear your point about a turntable for the masses, but there are other turntable manufacturers for that.

It makes sense to me that a designer would want his career-crowning achievement to be the best, cost-be-damned turntable he ever designed.

 

[Ron Resnick]

But even VPI Prime Signature sounds better than AF3 and AF5, I had great expectations from these turntables when I was looking to upgrade, and I was so disappointed with the sound at the Techdas Greek dealer’s studio

Different people subjectively prefer the sounds of different turntables, not every turntable is each audiophile’s particular cup of tea, but I truly don’t understand how somebody could be disappointed with the sound of an AF3P.

I actually think that an AF3P on an isolation platter is a kind of a good value.

 

[Steve williams]

Hopefully, it is the sound which justifies the price of the Air Force Zero. I hear your point about a turntable for the masses, but they’re are other turntable manufacturers for that.

It makes sense to me that a designer would want his career-crowning achievement to be the best, cost-be-damned turntable he ever designed.

The bottom line is I bet Nishikawa San sells out the entire number of AF Zeros It is a limited run and I bet all of them will be sold much the same as Dave Wilson did with his WAMM. and they were priced even higher.

I wish him well as this is his life’s achievement and I wish all owners of this product happy listening. I am hoping to hear one in Manila and for me the thrill of hearing this turntable amongst a bunch of friends only reinforces what JackD said. All of us I’m sure would lust after this TT but only a handful will ever own. So for me to possibly hear this with friends would be an unforgettable moment. That would be a good thing, right.

 

[CKKeung]

The bottom line is I bet Nishikawa San sells out the entire number of AF Zeros It is a limited run and I bet all of them will be sold much the same as Dave Wilson did with his WAMM. and they were priced even higher.

I wish him well as this is his life’s achievement and I wish all owners of this product happy listening. I am hoping to hear one in Manila and for me the thrill of hearing this turntable amongst a bunch of friends only reinforces what JackD said. All of us I’m sure would oust after this TT but only a handful will ever own. So for me to possibly hear this with friends would be an unforgettable moment. That would be a good thing, right.

Dear Steve,
My thoughts too.
I shall audition it when it's in HK at the Hong Kong High End Audio Visual Show 2019 in August.

My salute to Mr. Nishikawa and his team. I give them my highest respect.

I have to thank my friend TLi for reporting the debut on WBF too.
He stopped his work in HK and travelled to Tokyo only for joining the AF0 debut. I am quite sure that he will be one of the lucky 50 to have the AF0 at home.

BTW I saw a lot of useful discussion on this thread, but there are some unfounded speculations as well.
For such an expensive product, it's understandable.
However I hope that there is more constructive opinions and therefore more positive energy here in WBF.

 

[Vienna]

Different people subjectively prefer the sounds of different turntables, not every turntable is each audiophile’s particular cup of tea, but I truly don’t understand how somebody could be disappointed with the sound of an AF3P.

I actually think that an AF3P on an isolation platter is a kind of a good value.

Hi Ron,
Back to that day I had arranged an appointment to listen to some turntables as I was looking to upgrade from Prime Signature. The dealer had set for me the Af3, and the Master Innovation (with the linear tracking Tonearm)

The AF3 was clearly better that the Clearaudio, however the sound was very clinical, not to mention some technical issues that had to be dealt there.

I tried hard to like this turntable but I was missing the vinyl’s organic sound. One can say that perhaps the amplifiers and phono used were not the proper (Burmester) but that was my experience

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,
Back to that day I had arranged an appointment to listen to some turntables as I was looking to upgrade from Prime Signature. The dealer had set for me the Af3, and the Master Innovation (with the linear tracking Tonearm)

The AF3 was clearly better that the Clearaudio, however the sound was very clinical, not to mention some technical issues that had to be dealt there.

I tried hard to like this turntable but I was missing the vinyl’s organic sound. One can say that perhaps the amplifiers and phono used were not the proper (Burmester) but that was my experience

All fair enough!

 

[Folsom]

This looks like it's probably several hundred pounds past diminished returns, all the way into no-returns.

 

[Ron Resnick]

This looks like it's probably several hundred pounds past diminished returns, all the way into no-returns.

You are being a party-pooper!

 

[Folsom]

Hey now, I’m not rejecting it due to price!

I think I was good thinking the AS-2000 was as big and bad as anyone would ever want. (Including me)

 

[airbearing]

Hi Jack,
Sorry to hear you are leaving. Was good with you the rare moments we had in the past. I enjoyed!
Hopefully we might return to a reasonable and innovative environment in turntable building etc. We should stay critical and yes positive as Ron is as well. The hobby is so nice!
And we need statements like the Zero and the AS2000, always discussing pros and cons.
Maybe in Munich this May we might see a different High-End world. We just see the first indications of a slight turnaround.
All the best

www.audiocirc.com

 

[christoph]

What is the resale value on a Vygr? 15%

How do you know what version it is?

Sorry, I can't follow