Techdas Air Force III vs. 5 Premium

[thedudeabides]

Experienced users should also be able to associate design decisions to sonic results, at least in many cases.

True only if all of the variables have been very carefully eliminated to ensure an apples to apples comparison.

 

[ShawnZH]

I used to own an AF3, then an AF2 and now an AF1. Turntable set-up is a complex process involving many variants: isolation scheme, Tonearm, cart, matching of tomearm and cart, alignment of the arm/car using various tools and pro-tractos, phono amplification, even cables.

Therefore, a well-setup AF3 can outperform a poorly-setup AF1 easily. From my experiences with those TTs, I'd say go for the higher level models which can always give you a bigger potential to improve what you hear. AF3 can produce very good sound of course. But a properly setup AF2 and AF1 can give you much darker background, much more details, and a larger scale when presenting for example an orchestral piece.

AF2 and AF1 are more sophiscated in design, especially AF1 and more difficult to tune them into an ideal status: leveling, air pumping, etc. If something in the process is missing, the performance can be discounted.

Between AF3 and AF5p, I would suggest to go for AF3 with a separate motor drive. Vibration is a killer to the vinyl performance and AF5's built-in motor housed under the platter can inevitably bring the vibration to the playback. I agree with the above comments that if you can, go for AF3P. The light platter (9kg) on AF3 and AF2 reduces significantly the weight of music and level of details from a vinyl playback.

 

[abeidrov]

Do you think, replacing Kuzma Stabi M with AF5P is a logical step? AF5 was not available, when I bought my TT. I wanted to get AF3, but then decided to save some money and got Stabi M instead, but I always wanted a TT with air bearing and vacuum hold down )

 

[thedudeabides]

I used to own an AF3, then an AF2 and now an AF1. Turntable set-up is a complex process involving many variants: isolation scheme, Tonearm, cart, matching of tomearm and cart, alignment of the arm/car using various tools and pro-tractos, phono amplification, even cables.

Thank you for the response. I'm curious as to how many folks are qualified and can replicate what you've done.

 

[ShawnZH]

Do you think, replacing Kuzma Stabi M with AF5P is a logical step? AF5 was not available, when I bought my TT. I wanted to get AF3, but then decided to save some money and got Stabi M instead, but I always wanted a TT with air bearing and vacuum hold down

Vacuum hold-down shouldn’t be taken as an absolute improvement to those without. Yes it works well on those warped records but for a record in normal condition, vacuum hold-down somehow suppresses the vibe and makes the sound a bit too calm. When I play records on AF1, often I don’t use the vacuum hold-down.

 

[ShawnZH]

Compared to AF2 and AF1, AF3 sounds a bit differently. I assume it is mainly coming from the anti-vibration scheme deployed. AF1 is equipped with a true air bearing anti-vibration design with 3 air pumped feet, AF2 is with 3 oil damped feet while AF3 is with 4 simple hard feet. AF2 and AF1 are cushioned to absorb the undesired vibration while AF3 relies more on the rack. It can perform very differently on a well-designed rack such as HRS from a normal rack/platform. Sound wise, AF3 if well positioned on a good rack, is more crisp and fast, a bit more eloquent, while AF1 and AF2 are with a darker tone, more details weaved in a richer texture. From the listening pleasure point of view, someone may even prefer the AF3 for its directness and rhythm. However, I believe many audiophiles would appreciate the more sophisticated expression of AF1 and AF2. To make an analogy, AF3 is like a Kongfu master who could give quick and strong punches, say Bruce Lee. AF 1 and 2 are like a Taichi master, who moves slowly and steadily but the hidden power is bigger, say the Kongfu masters in the movie Crouching tiger, Hidden dragon by Ang Lee.

 

[microstrip]

Glad we agree on something Fransisco. I listened to the AF1 twice. I’m not sure if it was the premium model or not. Some claim the difference is not very big. I know what you mean by its sound. I found it very silent with very black backgrounds. It reminded me a lot of CD actually. So I think I know where you are coming from. The table has a very distinct sonic Signature.

There are two well-known formerly very active members here who have that table.

All analog turntables have sonic signatures. IMHO comparing them with master tape and top digital helps us analyzing them - but all these media sound different. And yes, I consider that "very silent with very black background " is a distinct feature. The difference between AF1 and AF1P was significant - my particular AF1P was an original AF1 and got all boards, parts, cases and packing boxes to become indistinguishable from an original AF1P.

 

[microstrip]

Vacuum hold-down shouldn’t be taken as an absolute improvement to those without. Yes it works well on those warped records but for a record in normal condition, vacuum hold-down somehow suppresses the vibe and makes the sound a bit too calm. When I play records on AF1, often I don’t use the vacuum hold-down.

Vacuum hold-down couples the LP to the platter in a way no clamp or mat can do. It was mandatory in the top quality lathes. It will help draining energy and vibration induced by the stylus in the LP. However as is better couples the LP to the whole turntable it is part of a complete system, not just an add on. Each case is a separate one and must be subjectively evaluated as such.

Interesting you refer that "vacuum hold-down somehow suppresses the vibe and makes the sound a bit too calm." Yes, sometimes for some recordings a bit of of extra excitement is desired.