Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[2ndLiner]

Here is a recent photo of the Taiko team in Oldenzaal (including their newest team member Khyle on the far right). Proud moment for me as his Dad joining the super team!

I agree, Steve, looks like a rugby all-star team!

 

[Levitator]

I agree, Steve, looks like a rugby all-star team!

I think they’re in training for what lies ahead

 

[rau]

I'm curious in the testing you have done is the router going to be as big of an upgrade as the switch/card ? I noticed a big improvement with the switch/card . Has any of the Taiko team tested Extreme switch/card to switch/card router ?

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Emile apologies if this has been answered again , since the Taiko router takes internet from WAN doesn't it actually operate as a Taiko switch, so in what differs this solution compared to having a second Taiko switch i.e. Taiko router > Taiko switch VS Taiko switch > Taiko switch ??

Our Switch and Router perform different functions and they are not interchangeable.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I'm curious in the testing you have done is the router going to be as big of an upgrade as the switch/card ? I noticed a big improvement with the switch/card . Has any of the Taiko team tested Extreme switch/card to switch/card router ?

Yes, the Router has a similar impact as the Switch. I verified that for myself when I visited Taiko HQ some time ago. I wrote a report on this that can be found here on WBF as well as on the Taiko Audio website. Below is a link to the article on the Taiko website.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/c...distributor-tests-at-taiko-hq/?v=796834e7a283

 

[an.vamv]

Our Switch and Router perform different functions and they are not interchangeable.

Hi Christiaan. I understand this but since the router takes internet from WAN and has multiple lan ports, unless someone uses its extra functions (wifi/access points/NAS etc), will it not operate essentially as a switch on the network ? I am not suggesting these two are interchangeable but in practice what sonic differences do we get by connecting a router and switch VS daisychaing two switches? Thank you.

 

[Rhapsody]

Hi Christiaan. I understand this but since the router takes internet from WAN and has multiple lan ports, unless someone uses its extra functions (wifi/access points/NAS etc), will it not operate essentially as a switch on the network ? I am not suggesting these two are interchangeable but in practice what sonic differences do we get by connecting a router and switch VS daisychaing two switches? Thank you.

One thing is that you are not going to be isolating your "audio only network" with two switches vs the router, which will give an isolated audio network. Plus the isolated wireless connection for control.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hi Christiaan. I understand this but since the router takes internet from WAN and has multiple lan ports, unless someone uses its extra functions (wifi/access points/NAS etc), will it not operate essentially as a switch on the network ? I am not suggesting these two are interchangeable but in practice what sonic differences do we get by connecting a router and switch VS daisychaing two switches? Thank you.

From your question I assume you understand the following but adding it for other readers, routers operate on a software level based on IP addresses while a switch works on a hardware level based on mac addresses. A switch can reduce traffic to a device by learning and storing which mac address is connected to which port so it can send data to that device specifically addressed to it, while sending data for other devices over its other ports, reducing the amount of traffic on the port your device uses. This does not do anything to reduce broadcast traffic which is send to all devices on the network. Perhaps a superfluous addition but there’s no such thing as a switch for Wi-Fi so using Wi-Fi means the more devices, the more traffic “seen” by all devices automatically.

A router can control the traffic which is send and broadcast on your network.

Talking in reduction terms, a router can reduce the amount of traffic on the entire network while a switch can reduce the amount of traffic on a segment of that network.

From a data processing amount view your server does not benefit from daisy chaining 2 switches, it will “see” the same network traffic. The switch closest to the server will however see less network traffic and will have less data processing as that will all be performed by the switch preceding it.

Daisy chaining a router and a switch is similar in a way as the network ports on a router are typically switched as well, so you have daisy chained switches then with the addition an additional reduction of (broadcast) data and control over network parameters on a software level.

In short:

2 switches only control traffic on a hardware level.

A router and a switch control traffic on a hardware and software level and can lower traffic to a larger degree then 2 switches can.

 

[cat6man]

@Taiko Audio

how is the channel chosen or selected by the router, and what is the recommendation on avoiding interference with other
wifi devices in the house and in the surrounding neighborhood?

 

[MOTU]

From your question I assume you understand the following but adding it for other readers, routers operate on a software level based on IP addresses while a switch works on a hardware level based on mac addresses. A switch can reduce traffic to a device by learning and storing which mac address is connected to which port so it can send data to that device specifically addressed to it, while sending data for other devices over its other ports, reducing the amount of traffic on the port your device uses. This does not do anything to reduce broadcast traffic which is send to all devices on the network. Perhaps a superfluous addition but there’s no such thing as a switch for Wi-Fi so using Wi-Fi means the more devices, the more traffic “seen” by all devices automatically.

A router can control the traffic which is send and broadcast on your network.

Talking in reduction terms, a router can reduce the amount of traffic on the entire network while a switch can reduce the amount of traffic on a segment of that network.

From a data processing amount view your server does not benefit from daisy chaining 2 switches, it will “see” the same network traffic. The switch closest to the server will however see less network traffic and will have less data processing as that will all be performed by the switch preceding it.

Daisy chaining a router and a switch is similar in a way as the network ports on a router are typically switched as well, so you have daisy chained switches then with the addition an additional reduction of (broadcast) data and control over network parameters on a software level.

In short:

2 switches only control traffic on a hardware level.

A router and a switch control traffic on a hardware and software level and can lower traffic to a larger degree then 2 switches can.

One thing I never really understood is how the sound can be better with the switch connected vs no network at all?

 

[RyanTX]

From your question I assume you understand the following but adding it for other readers, routers operate on a software level based on IP addresses while a switch works on a hardware level based on mac addresses. A switch can reduce traffic to a device by learning and storing which mac address is connected to which port so it can send data to that device specifically addressed to it, while sending data for other devices over its other ports, reducing the amount of traffic on the port your device uses. This does not do anything to reduce broadcast traffic which is send to all devices on the network. Perhaps a superfluous addition but there’s no such thing as a switch for Wi-Fi so using Wi-Fi means the more devices, the more traffic “seen” by all devices automatically.

A router can control the traffic which is send and broadcast on your network.

Talking in reduction terms, a router can reduce the amount of traffic on the entire network while a switch can reduce the amount of traffic on a segment of that network.

From a data processing amount view your server does not benefit from daisy chaining 2 switches, it will “see” the same network traffic. The switch closest to the server will however see less network traffic and will have less data processing as that will all be performed by the switch preceding it.

Daisy chaining a router and a switch is similar in a way as the network ports on a router are typically switched as well, so you have daisy chained switches then with the addition an additional reduction of (broadcast) data and control over network parameters on a software level.

In short:

2 switches only control traffic on a hardware level.

A router and a switch control traffic on a hardware and software level and can lower traffic to a larger degree than 2 switches can.

Emile,

Quick question on the upcoming router for my setup:

My apartment doesn’t require modems so I can easily set up multiple networks in my house. Currently I have 1 in my office controlling most of everything in the house and a separate network in the living room for just Audio + Apple TV. The audio/TV router is an just an old Apple Time Capsule.

Question is, should I just remove the Apple router completely and plug the Taiko Router in its place (and plug my Apple TV into one of Taikos other ports) thereby eliminating anything non audio grade going into my Hifi system from the wall. Or is it better to keep the Apple router in the chain so I can keep the Apple TV in one port and the Taiko router in another?

Essentially I’m wondering if the Apple router upstream would cause more noise in front of the Taiko router….or would the Apple TV plugged into one of the Taiko routers other ports cause more noise?

 

[Taiko Audio]

@Taiko Audio

how is the channel chosen or selected by the router, and what is the recommendation on avoiding interference with other
wifi devices in the house and in the surrounding neighborhood?

I just select one manually, I don’t expect this to cause issues due to being both relatively close and in the same room.

 

[Taiko Audio]

One thing I never really understood is how the sound can be better with the switch connected vs no network at all?

Software actively trying to (re)establish a connection to the network can generate more activity then just being connected. You can get better performance without a network present but you’d have to purposely design for that, aka remove network functionality in both hard and software.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile,

Quick question on the upcoming router for my setup:

My apartment doesn’t require modems so I can easily set up multiple networks in my house. Currently I have 1 in my office controlling most of everything in the house and a separate network in the living room for just Audio + Apple TV. The audio/TV router is an just an old Apple Time Capsule.

Question is, should I just remove the Apple router completely and plug the Taiko Router in its place (and plug my Apple TV into one of Taikos other ports) thereby eliminating anything non audio grade going into my Hifi system from the wall. Or is it better to keep the Apple router in the chain so I can keep the Apple TV in one port and the Taiko router in another?

Essentially I’m wondering if the Apple router upstream would cause more noise in front of the Taiko router….or would the Apple TV plugged into one of the Taiko routers other ports cause more noise?

Hard to say as we’re talking about an accumulation of:
1) individual devices with their power supplies
2) the amount of processing the router performs
3) additional traffic on the isolated audio network (which you could get around by configuring one of the router ports as a separate network with it’s own dhcp, nat, firewall etc, but that affects 2) and, up to yourself as we will not support a scenario like that, support for that is not included in the routers retail price, there’s a reset to factory defaults button so feel free to try though!)

 

[Steve Williams]

It's refreshing to read about the much anticipated delivery of the Taiko Router and reading so many of the last posts, members sure seem to have their thinking hats on as to how they will incorporate it into their systems. All good news. For me however my fantasy is waking up one day to the news that XDMS-NSM will be released that day . Everything matters, we can all agree, however when Emile promises that the uptick of SQ with NSM is the second largest only after the BPS surfaces, hopefully in Q4. If it is SQ that is the momentum of Taiko progress that many of us chase, I am hoping we can all wake up one morning to the news that NSM is available. If I seem anxious......I am . For me is is SQ that I chase and the 2 biggest are just around the corner. I understand there is still a bug in NSM that Winston has to squash but I am confident that the dawn of NSM will soon be upon us.Let the good times roll. We seem to be all chomping at the bit for this to happen BUT to all Extreme owners who still do not have XDMS this too is around the corner and you should be reaching out to have XDMS installed. That will have your heads spinning. Plus watching the development of XDMS around the alpha testers and reading new users impressions on Discord where we all huddle is so much fun as users discover the virtues of XDMS and make comments about their epiphany upon hearing.So what can we do to encourage Wilson to get rid of the NSM bug. FWIW I think we users are all "bugs" as we are sitting in our listening chairs awaiting that announcement and ragging on Ed, Emile, Wilson and Christiaan on a regular basis Looking for that "pearl" to drop Emile.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...the battery pearl!

 

[engadin]

Taiko router ordered.
I would like to continue to use my ipad for XDMS - for music.

Until now, the very same ipad was used for photography storage, social media, all other internet use. WLAN connection to „dirty“ router needed, of course.

Will I need two ipads?

 

[oldmustang]

Taiko router ordered.
I would like to continue to use my ipad for XDMS - for music.

Until now, the very same ipad was used for photography storage, social media, all other internet use. WLAN connection to „dirty“ router needed, of course.

Will I need two ipads?

It is a very simple matter to switch an iPad from one Wifi network to another. Tap "Settings" icon, tap "Wifi", select whichever Wifi network you require at the moment.

I personally don't find that to be such an inconvenience that I would invest in a second iPad.

However, I freely acknowledge that some might find that to be a problem.

Steve Z

 

[marty]

2 questions:
1) I don't follow the XDMS development story closely but need to ask: Is XDMS-NSM the same thing as the long awaited XDMS-Alpha?

2) Sometime months ago Emile suggested the sonic improvement by adding the switch might be in the neighborhood of 30% as I recall. I also remember reading an estimate for further SQ improvement of the DCD as 20%? Most recently however, Emile said that due to. number of recent innovations and re-assessment, he might revise some of the guidance for anticipated improvements for the imminent router, DCD, BPS, XDMS-NSM and whatever else he had or has in mind. Have those estimates been revised or made available recently (I do not participate in Discord so would not see them if that is where it was discussed).

Looking forward to the router and DCD shortly.
Marty

 

[cat6man]

2 questions:
1) I don't follow the XDMS development story closely but need to ask: Is XDMS-NSM the same thing as the long awaited XDMS-Alpha?

2) Sometime months ago Emile suggested the sonic improvement by adding the switch might be in the neighborhood of 30% as I recall. I also remember reading an estimate for further SQ improvement of the DCD as 20%? Most recently however, Emile said that due to. number of recent innovations and re-assessment, he might revise some of the guidance for anticipated improvements for the imminent router, DCD, BPS, XDMS-NSM and whatever else he had or has in mind. Have those estimates been revised or made available recently (I do not participate in Discord so would not see them if that is where it was discussed).

Looking forward to the router and DCD shortly.
Marty

1) xdms is great, nms will be greater
2) new estimates are TBD